I would not have used it myself because it seems wrong to include those of us who have always been at the top of the ladder with those struggling to live through life in a manner of fear we have never had to even consider.

Twitter.I think the hashtag was actually started by someone at Breitbart.

Actually, many people use it including minorities who also does not know the history of it.

Ya know there will be protesters and candidates should be aware this as well, it comes with the visibility of public life. Pres O is a master in handling protester(s). I believe HRC will be as well.

are we really going to suspect someone as a racist (who may not know the history), for innocently saying 'all lives matter?'

in the early 50s people who went to meeting a decade prior, invited by a friend to something like 'students for democracy' were suspected as 'communists'

what people should fear more than anything, is becoming what they fear, in response to their fears

find another term for concern once you know the origins of the hashtag?

But it does go both ways. You have to find out if those involved even know about the hashtag before sitting in judgment and pronouncing a verdict over them. #IntentMatters. It really only matters when people are offended and outraged and don't feel like being rational or showing understanding. #/MY/FeelingsMatter.

The point is that it must not, cannot, shall not "go both ways." That would cede power. It would dethrone indignation.

Oh, by the way: If using any phrase or word that's been used by a racist is grounds for being judged a racist, then this is all I, or you, can possibly say:

(start quote)








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I expect you as the more sensitive of us to model appropriate behavior and show us how it's done.

Edited because it isn't just co-opting, it's trying to negate it. It's trolling "black lives matter." Just don't troll that movement.

Stop calling someone you don't even know, a troll.

"ALL LIVES MATTER" should be TRUTH to every progressive. It's not my fault or any other liberal person's fault that the fucking conservatives try to make that mean something negative to black people.

My question is a genuine question about what words we should use instead, to present that ALL LIVES do matter. Children's lives matter. Women's lives matter. Men's lives matter. The lives of the disabled and the elderly and the homeless and the struggling matter.

So how about answering the question with what words you would find acceptable?


Yeah and I call myself a LIBERAL too. I don't give a shit that some conservatives have tried to make "liberal" a dirty word.

edit: And I don't mean trolling DU. I mean it's trolling the Black Lives Matter movement. That's the whole point of it. It says "We don't want to focus on black lives" to a movement called Black Lives Matter. That's trolling.

It keeps focus on blacks while also not excluding others.

Look, I get it. I know what you are saying. But we are dealing with psychology here. When you say "black lives matter" there is a large number of people out there who take offense to it and think their race doesn't matter. And not just whites, either.

It's the same thing with the privilege debate around here. People don't talk about it with any depth because many consider it personally insulting.

I'm under the impression that being an afterthought isn't enough. White people aren't being murdered anywhere near the rates that black people are. There's another thread about how black people are murdered in the US at the same rate as people in Rwanda, which has been plagued with unrest, are. The whole point is that we already behave like white lives matter, but we as a society do not behave like black lives matter. People do not seem to often face consequences when they murder black people. So you have black people desperately pleading, "Stop murdering us, and treat our murders the same as you treat the murders of white people!" And then white people respond with, "But our lives matter too!" It's ridiculously tone deaf.

the meaning and cause, by shaming them for caring about the issue and how it affects them.

same thing happens with men and feminism. We even got feminists saying we have to work for men too. Even when the objective is to help women.

I'm not ashamed to focus only on womens rights when practicing feminism.

I don't think black people ought to care either that some white people are offended by black persons representing their own issues, from their perspective..

and kill it with fire? Do we really need an asterisk to #blacklivesmatter?

As someone who studied a little psychology, I have some idea in what drives people to think and act. The way it's worded and presented is going to make some folks out there think "does this mean my race doesn't matter?" It makes them take a defensive posture.

But I don't control the movement and I'm not going to try. I'm just making a point on why some non-blacks could take offense to it and ruin the message its trying to get out. It's just something to keep in mind when you hear people like Hillary say things like "all lives matter." It doesn't mean they are intentionally trying to be racist. They are trying to be egalitarian.

"Black Lives Matter."

"All Lives Matter" makes it seem black lives matter less than when it's a stand-alone phrase. Put starkly, it also leads to, "Does this mean my race doesn't matter?"

A lot of balking and not much talking.

because it has no association with any other hashtag about someone's live positivly mattering, and yet, it's still egalitarian, in that black, white, asian, hispanic, male, female, rich, poor, young and old that everyone is expendable

It's a proper sentence of English and has been around for a while.

in the history of the English language doesn't mean that #alllivesmatter didn't start as a racist hashtag.

cares if it's a proper sentence? Do you think black people aren't aware of what the racist hashtag was meant to diminish?

you could start by addressing your own hostility

of change. A political movement has to be more than protecting a slogan, no matter how catchy. The hashtag has already been successful in grabbing attention and followers so it has already served an important purpose.

"All lives matter" is a kind of wishy-washy kumbaya statement. It's a political "read my lips, I care" or "I feel your pain" kind of brushoff. It brushes aside the extent to which structural racism pervades our society and creates unique problems for minorities in general and for blacks more than any other minority.

If structural racism is the problem, then "all lives matter" is not an adequate response.

And as we used to say in the old hippie days, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

black lives being taken.

It's co-opting a legitimate movement while at the same time belittling and diminishing where the real focus should be — and it's patronizing, as if they know what's the more appropriate term.

White lives are not being taken by police all over the country just about daily it seems.

"Black lives matter" was created because unarmed black men and women are being killed.

That is where the focus should stay.

It's not that hard to understand.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding this. It's an attempt to delegitimize the BLM movement.

O'Malley and Clinton are running for office. When they say, BLM, but not ALM, they are excluding rather than including. I see how a politician could have trouble finding a way to respect everyone.

I also had an epiphany moment, however when I read that the reason "all lives matter" is a problem, because in the past people felt that "black lives" were not included in "all" lives.

It has never occurred to me that saying "all lives" diminishes the movement.

Some times there are things more important than politics. ALM was co opted from BLM by right wing trolls; see the post above that I'm a million fucking times in agreement with.

Somebody who will speak the truth but looses an election and is unemployed isnt much use.

I would imagine that apologizing for saying "all lives matter hurts O'Malley in front of some voters. They dont understand what is behind the all lives matter hashtag, and neither did O'Malley.

But its a long process and this will be old news in a week anyway.

Attempting to address BLM is "coopting" it?

Why do I get the impression that you will never be satisfied?

Is trolling, as in the verb. I am not talking about who or what people are. I am talking about a behavior.

I am not talking about people. I am talking about behavior. The behavior is trolling. That does not mean the people are trolls. It only means the behavior is trolling.

Is it not the case that black lives matter? Why is it so hard in 2015 for people to simply state "black lives matter"?

just kidding

just showing how easy it is to spread McCarthy-esq era paranoia

Learn something new every day!

Suffromich is mostly right, at least where it comes to how the phrase belittles "black lives matter."

Yes, all lives do matter. But all people aren't being targeted by the police and ruled "justifiable homicide" in every occasion, are they?

The problem isn't also the outright racist history. Wealthy white NPR-listening LIBERALS who think they are smarter than everyone else get it in their mind that politicians MUST say all "All Lives Matter" and push back on #BlackLivesMatter in the name of universal humanism, universal reason, and just the fact a portion of the voters are white. Because they have a preconceived notion of the correctness of their universal white point of view, they REFUSE to look at #BlackLivesMatter arguments or issues and refuse to condone their tactics. The more they hear about #BlackLivesMatter, the more the movement seems to be "resisting" how UNIVERSALLY CORRECT they are. They just can't stand that because they aren't standing up for white people, they are standing up for the UNIVERSAL.

Thus, they almost get panicky about insisting that politicians uphold the One True Value that All Lives Matter. I've heard this discussed at dinner tables and coffee shops. There is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that deep pockets donors and anxious civic groups actually pressure politicians to affirm All Lives Matter when they are at the dais. This is why I believe Hillary deliberately slipped in All Lives Matter into her speech at the black funeral: in that moment she chose to affirm the "universal" white vote and hope she didn't lose too many black votes in the process.

The day after Hillary's dog whistle, a radio interviewer bludgeoned Bernie until he would affirm the "universal" phrase, too.

After O'Malley's flub at Netroot's Nation, it seems to me that smooth political handlers are now telling candidates to give different messages to different audiences. IMHO, this is a mistake. In an age of cellphone cameras, they will be posted on youtube saying the wrong faster than you can say "All Lives Matter". Hypocrisy makes political candidates look sleazy: like they won't keep their campaign promises in office. And if one of these lying candidates win, the black constituency they offended by blowing off #BlackLivesMatter will remember that the issue was racism was quashed by the "superior notions" of white culture once again.

I'm dedicating this comment to Sandra Bland.

You have to go with true indy stations that play Amy Goodman and others to get liberal views any more. Bush fucked up NPR good.

and step outside for some fresh air?

so not often.

the hashtag!

We're in a really good place on this one, aren't we? It's a simple phrase that should be a core value, but no. If it were a movie, we could call it How the Left Screws Itself Into an Inarticulate, Perpetually Apologetic Pretzel.

Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 10:37 PM - Edit history (2)

I have no desire to minimize the institutional abuses towards another. Institutional racism is real, it takes black lives. #blacklivesmatter

edit - the first place I ever heard that phrase (alllivesmatter) used were from facebook posts from people I knew to be conservatives. It is right wing.

I said it once, wanting to be inclusive of some Native American friends who had the been the victims of unjustified police violence.

I meant well, of course, but didn't know that the phrase had been co-opted by racists.

Thanks for pointing it out for others.

How about women? Do women's lives matter? Do poor people's lives matter?

It is an attempt to correct the phrase "black lives matter." Feeling a need to correct that statement is racist.

The problem is saying it in response to"black lives matter." In response to that it is racist.

Our society obviously values white lives. We have not demonstrated that we value black lives. That is what this movement is about.

In this thread alone, you've basically called the Democratic presidential contenders, who all responded with variants of "all lives matter," trolls and racists. Why are you here?

Also, just curious:

Do brown lives matter?

How about red ones?

Am I supposed to sit down and shut up, again? Just because I'm a woman? Yes, I'm white, so what!

There are women's movements available. We don't need to latch on and dismiss Black Lives Matter.

Period.

I'm not sure which is worse....using the term or pretending using it is "brutal"...

than to the population as a whole. And while I understand the string feelings, complaining bitterly about candidates who say "all lives matter" is not going to win any elections.

Looks like the plutocrats have won again, pitting members of the 99% against each other by co-opting a perfectly acceptable slogan and making it so we have to demonize it and drop it. They always fucking win.