McCain was supposed to be fast tracked up the chain of command to be an admiral, but he just wasn't good enough. Then politics became a backup career when he met Cindy's money

and was involved in that huge fire on the carrier USS Forrestal.

Many sailors lost their lives as McCain's plane was the trigger point of a huge explosion and fire.

He certainly didn't have the right stuff.

The missile that was released came from another plane and hit McCain's. He was almost killed. All this stuff about McCain comes from far right websites who hate him.

He was nothing more than a Navy legacy, the son and grandson of Admirals. He probably figured it didn't matter what he did or how he did it, his daddy and granddaddy had enough clout, they could haul his ass out of any trouble he got into. So, he didn't really have to try. He just had to be there. Just like "W", who actually didn't even think he HAD to be there.

THE TRUE MILITARY RECORD OF JOHN MCCAIN WRITTEN BY AN ACTIVE MARINE.
9/03/08

McCain has never really earned anything. He is from a wealth pampered background and not fit to lead this nation.

A “war hero” doesn’t finished 894th out of 899 and still get stationed at a Navy champagne unit and promoted ahead of all but two of his 898 other classmates.

A “war hero” doesn’t crash three U.S. Navy jets out of sheer incompetence and ineptitude, including two during non-combat training sessions.

A “war hero” doesn’t get written up on drunk-and-disorderly, fraternization, disobeying orders, and insubordination charges more than two dozen times in less than three years.
A “war hero” doesn’t get promoted to squadron commander of the air field named after his own grandfather immediately after crashing his third airplane. A “war hero” doesn’t have all the military records that cover his time in Vietnam and all disciplinary actions against him censored and sealed “as a matte r of national security.” A “war hero” doesn’t get 28 medals awarded all after-the-fact “for bravery” for no other reason than being shot down and captured and then go on a celebrity public relations tour because he’s the son of two acclaimed Navy admirals. A “war hero” doesn’t repeatedly cheat on the wife who’s back in the states waiting for him, and then cheat on her more when he returns to the states, and then divorce and abandon her.
A “war hero” doesn’t systematically vote against every single pay and benefit increase for military and veterans throughout his entire political career, all the while claiming to be “the soldier’s Congressman,” and then take credit for the passage of a G.I. benefits bill he that voted AGAINST. A “war hero” McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom. McCain’s second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula,” Timberg wrote, “he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”
McCain’s third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg reported that McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout” and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees. McCain’s fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms an d a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals. “McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat,” explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs — the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. “Since McCain got 28 medals,” Bell continues, “that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys — grunts on the ground — who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I’m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison
The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down.” For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism. McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America’s POW-hero presidential candidate.
This article was written by an active, unnamed Marine. It is a true account of McCain’s real war record and evidence of his lack of fitness for the office of President.

when he disparages people for being captured, he's also slamming generations of POWs, journalists and aid workers. If he had stopped at the firs sentence, I might have blown this whole issue off, but he had to keep going by saying he 'likes people who don't get captured.' Well guess what. They'd probably "like" to have not BEEN captured.

and that's the truth

all. That does not mean I agree with mccain's politics, I detest them. However, he served in a combat zone, and bush didn't

And he was shot down when he failed to follow combat instructions. When he was shot down, he again failed to follow instructions on how to eject, which is how he received some of his horrible injuries. This by his own admission.

Much like Bush, I think McCain was just hard set on one upping his Dad. McCain ended up damaging himself. Bush, the country.

he was tortured. I read how, and even if he was Donald Trump (I am Latina) I would not dismiss it such a manner.

He may be a horrible student, he may have brought being a POW on himself, and he may have wasted his political career not helping other vets and going after that is fine.

But as someone who has faced violence and anger, I will not dismiss his experience. I won't be like those people who said "waterboarding isn't torture" because they didn't see the victims as human.

In an earlier post, I said exactly that. I have to give respect to anyone who has the stamina and inner resources to come through such a horrific experience. Unfortunately, his behavior throughout his military career made some sort of disaster kind of inevitable.

It's very competitive. Being at the bottom of that class isn't like being at the bottom of Phoenix University.

It was a cunning move to choose Palin. It wasn't a smart one.

I know it's a process, but the candidate still has the last word. Had they properly vetted her, I still think he would have gone for flash over substance.

to force the issue.

I can just picture poor Joe, sitting there waiting for the call that never came.

I can assure, being of McCain's generation, that in the 1950's, all students at the Naval Academy, the other service academies, the Ivy League colleges, were not necessarily "smart."

Many were legacies, many had connections, some others were athletes, some talked a good enough game to make the entrance cut.

One other thing- there were no females in the service academies and the Ivies in the 1950's.
When females were admitted to the prestigious colleges in the late 60's, early 70's, those schools became much more competitive academically.

But he did manage to graduate from Annapolis, and he did manage to qualify as a Carrier Aviator.... No mean feat. There is no call to deliberatly denigrate the suffering he went through as a POW.

was stupid. I wonder how the people making that accusation would have done? How many years were they held in a prison camp in Vietnam or served at all? No matter what someone thinks of him politically that shit is just going too far. These people are no better are worse than the Swift boaters.

makes me like him. He had no problem embarrassing the brass in his family and must have drove his COs nuts.

and found that for the most part, the Republican contenders for the white house, including those that took the office, education levels or intellect pales in comparison to the same group of dems.

Jimmy Carter went to the same school as McCain.

He graduated 60th out of a class of 820. He was an early member of the Navy's Nuclear Submarine Fleet. McCain was 894th out of a class of 899 and got into flight school on his dads coattails.

Carter just finished another book and does not milk the lecture circuit

Doctor.

What do you call the person who finished last in their Law School class?

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Your Honor.

At my law school, the version was

The A students become professors
The B students become judges
The C students become wealthy

when you are applying for college/law school/med school, it's such a big deal about getting into the best one.

Then later, practicing, no one has time to discuss where they graduated from. No one cares. It's about what firm people are with sometimes but even that doesn't impress people after a while.

"Q: What do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of the class in med school? A: Doctor."

Many were not lucky enough to get his postings or his second chances.
Many were better and smarter warriors.
Many have been more modest in describing their achievements.

Nonetheless, McCain meets the minimal definition of being a veteran and a hero. Let's leave it at that.

place in class

I'm going to leave this bit to the Donald and rest of the sociopaths over at the GOP. They are making a spectacle of themselves.

and George Washington may have been singlehandedly responsible for changing the Iroquois nation's allegiance from the British to the French because at the outset of the French and Indian War because their war chief thought he was an incompetent asshole. Which he likely was. And Jefferson was effectively a draft dodger when he refused an appointment as an officer in the Revolution because he would miss his slave mistress too much.

Amazing, isn't it, that significant people throughout history have several sides to them, with some not so good.

While belittling McCain as a non-heroic privileged asshole may be good sport at times, the point here is that he was, after all, a POW and as such deserves a minimum of respect from Trump, who spent his privileged time during the war learning how to fuck up his father's real estate holdings.

US Grant was 21st of 39,
Patten was around 50th in a class of just more than 100

4/9 of my class didn't even make it through to graduation. None of them were stupid; in fact, most were near the top of their high school classes. The combination of rigorous academics and all the regimental obligations make for a rather intense environment. It's not for everyone, and just making it to graduation is an accomplishment.

Academic standing really had no bearing on down the line as to what kind of officer you were.

is a brain child wonder, nor do I like him, but that
Trump criticism, coming from someone, who avoided
to serve by any means should get everyone upset.

And, who knows, Trump may be just as crazy and
devious as the Dick the former president.

... A decade plus later are still revelling in their college days and their college accomplishments...

Get over it... No one cares...

The point is magnified when it is from multiple decades ago...

Do we break out high school standings next?

This is petty...

he did get into the class and some people didn't. He was able to do the job. You don't have to be at the top of the class to be useful.

OTOH, later, he proved his eternal stupidity at a much more advanced age, when he picked his running mate.

I'm still looking for that

Not as often or as forcefully as he could have, but he did defend Kerry publicly. I remember when that happened, and it was discussed here at DU.

I though I read on DU earlier he did condemn the attacks on Kerry.

I don't accept ReTHUG hypocrisy and don't defer to political correctness on these matters. When the RNC comes out and says they don't diss persons who have served, that is a major lie.

I do remember of McCain being decent was when he silenced that lunatic woman who attacked Obama during the 2008 campaign but he never silenced Palin and the other red meat racists.

Pat Tilman now - he's my kind of hero.

It took me less than 10 seconds to find this story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42740-2004Aug5.html

Trump got mad that McCain called trump supporters "crazies" so he went after McCain. Trump has thinner skin than Palin and he's more immature. He doesn't think about what he says and has to walk it back all the time.

Is this smart? Is it presidential?

I've know many people who finished low in their class rankings but were smarter than any number of the people ahead of them, including those near the top. Some didn't score well because they only applied themselves in the subjects that interested them; others had their class rank suffer because they opted to challenge themselves with difficult courses while those around them looked for the easy grade. Sometimes it was simply a matter of partying too much, or maybe having to deal with family issues.

The "fact is" that Joe Biden finished near the bottom of his law school class (76th out of 85), while Ted Cruz was his high school valedictorian, an honors student at Princeton and a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard. So what exactly does class rank prove? That Ted Cruz is much "smarter" than Joe Biden? The "fact is" that while McCain finished fifth from the bottom (not second, as if it really matters) in his class is not indicative of much of anything.

Silly OP.

He admitted that he bombed innocent women and children.

He was CIC and gave the orders.

1. Do you *know* that Johnson ordered McCain to drop bombs on innocent women and children? Or is it possible that McCain was acting on his own initiative?

2. Johnson didn't have the audacity and gall to "brag" about it on national television.

They have assigned targets. During Vietnam military authorities considered civilian deaths collateral damage to the military objectives. It was Johnson who started the military to do "body counts" everyday on the 'enemy'. Everynight on the network news you would hear that we killed so many hundred enemy that day and so many dozen Americans were killed. Hey, we are winning! I never heard McCain "brag" about anything he did in Vietnam. Everything is on the internet. Maybe you can give us youtube links to him "bragging". McCain was one of the people most responsible for the restoration of diplomatic ties with Vietnam. He led the fight for that and made trips back to Vietnam and met his captors who had tortured him.

There are plenty of issue to criticize John McCain for. Unless you know, authoritatively, what McCain's grades were at the Academy, and how that rates to other educational institutions, agreeing with Donald Trump that he's not "smart" is uncalled for.

...still not the same thing.

At what school? In what subject? Bottom of the class at one of the military academies is top of the class at most colleges.

It is still a fact.

Where I finished is none of you GD business but it sure wasn't in the bottom half of the class.

Not necessarily so in 1950's.
Connections for entrance meant much more then, legacies as well, no female students there at that time.

As we don't have the grey matter to be even accepted into Annapolis.

Otherwise, what's the point?