Fuckers.

suffocate herself with a plastic bag?

the person took some kind of drug first. People have strong breathing reflexes that would make it almost impossible for a healthy, conscious person to kill herself with a plastic bag.

change their story from "hung herself" which would have neck bruises and indications of petechiael bruising and trauma to ...

suffocated herself.

This has to be the dumbest story I have ever heard.

This, RIGHT HERE, is what is wrong with our justice system.

And elected coroners are part of the problem. They need to be evaluated on medical and forensic credentials, not politically elected.

That is not just a defective part of our justice system, it is one of the MOST defective, harmful and ridiculous parts of our justice system.

Just not here and not especially for this death.

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/34/2/433.full isn't the discussion, which occurred in strange little backwaters of the Internet and radio, but it's a good (older, and non-American) way of pointing out that a lot of "hangings" don't involve the usual bruising and neck injuries. Those who die are standing, kneeling, or even lying down. "Ligature points"--where the other end of the shoelaces, blanket, or plastic bags are tied include bed posts, doorknobs, sink taps, toilet seats, and toilet flush handles.

Easy to lose consciousness from self-strangulation that way, and once you're unconscious it doesn't take much force to finish you off.

http://www.policeandjailprocedures.com/article_suicide.html talks about suicide-proofing cells. Including removing stationary towel hooks and anything that can serve as a tie-down (or "ligature point," to use the epidemiologists' term).

Note that the terminology is also specific. There's hanging, there's strangulation, there's asphyxiation--and I'm not sure where the dividing lines are between them. Esp. with a plastic bag there's "asphyxiation" from putting your head in it and there's asphyxiation from using it as a slip-knot around your neck.

believe this story?

sleep in their own bed that night?

"Yeah, um, ... she hung herself, ... err, smothered herself ... uh ... I mean she slipped and hit her head ... no, no, wait, ... she choked on a tootsie roll .... no ... um ... "

inconsistencies, and they can't even get the most basic facts of the story correct? I'm sick and tired of the corruption.

It's a VERY different thing.

This is madness

I always hear the Jon Lovitz voice: Yeah that's the ticket, she. . . suffocated herself, yeah that's the way it was, she suffocated herself. . .

...was going to be my response to the OP but you beat me to it.

The ever evolving narrative... I hope someone goes to prison behind this murder!

TYY

So if anybody went into or out of her cell, it would be on camera, and the FBI is looking over the footage to see what is on it, and if it was doctored in anyway, so hopefully we can get some more details.

The video should help rule that out.

Thanks for the thread, pnwmom.

that a trash can with a plastic bag would be in a holding cell? I've never been in a jail cell, but think it's weird nonetheless. What kind of trash would one generate in a jail cell?

I worked for 8 years in a small county jail and we would never have let inmates have access to plastic bags!
The only thing in holding cells was a cement bench and NOTHING else.

Considering they take your shoe laces away.

Nothing makes sense here.

There was no reason she should have been in jail.

He was a major national college football star, with no arrest record. Arrested by the police at night for speeding, he was found beaten to death and hung in his jail cell the next morning. No one was ever arrested and the police averred that it was just a suicide. Michael Baden, who performed an autopsy for the family said the death was consistent with a police choke hold and not a noose made with a plastic cell mattress cover like the police stated. The civil case arising from the death was one of Johnnie Cochran's earliest cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Settles

which they then tried to cover up with the stupid plastic bag story.

I have worked in psych for 30 years, you wouldn't believe how people have committed suicide. Yes you can kill yourself with a plastic bag. You can also hang yourself and your feet can be on the floor.
I've never seen a jail with plastic bags in the cells. The take your belt and shoelaces why would they leave a plastic bag in the cell.
The changing story is suspicious.

How do we know they were ever in the other cells?

Because, as you say, it doesn't make any sense. What would a person in a cell like that need a plastic bag for?

own money to supplement their meals. I know that at our County Jail, they feed the inmates at 6 AM, Noon & 4 PM... if they want something between 4 PM and 6 AM it comes from their commissary. They have to have somewhere to throw away the wrappers...

Peace,

Ghost

If you have ever seen the show "Locked Down", you will see that even some State and Federal Prisons have waste baskets in the cells. They even showed one episode where inmates were making wine/alcohol in plastic trash bags by keeping fruit from their meals and/or commissary and fermenting it.

I have GOT to get to sleep! Been trying for a few hours now, with no success! I have to be up early to make a 120 mile round trip for a doctor's appointment.

Peace,

Ghost

at your appointment. That's a long round trip.

Be well!

and former inmates to see if they ever saw any garbage cans lined with plastic bags.

because y'know, when you find a person's body, I would imagine it's pretty easy to determine if they hanged themselves (cord around the neck) or suffocated on a bag (the bag would be there, obviously.) What's more i put forth that it would be EXCEPTIONALLY FUCKING DIFFICULT to confuse one for the other.

So what's it going to be, Bacon Bits? Did you kill her, or are you guys just dangerously stupid on a level that requires quarrantine? Hmmmm?

Don't worry. mr. Piggers, it was a trick question, we know that both answers are correct.

autopsy - too late you MF murderers.

Which contradicts what was said in the press conference. It's obviously just complete bullshit. She was murdered

http://m.ustream.tv/recorded/68005345/highlight/642088?rmalang=en_US

The bigger the bag, the slower the asphyxiation. Whatever the bag size though, there does need to be some seal around the neck.
The major drawback of this method is running out of oxygen in the bag whilst still conscious. Humans, whatever their mental state, have an underlying strong desire to stay alive, so are likely to tear or remove the bag in this situation

A 30 gallon trash bag should have around 30 minutes of air in it, although in his own tests Dr Stone stated that after only 15 minutes carbon dioxide build up was sufficiently high for his breathing rate to more than triple and be uncomfortable enough to want to remove the bag.

On the other hand, police said that she was argumentative. Isn't that sufficient cause to murder someone and make it look like a poorly-staged fake suicide?

on the premise that she was "combative" and therefore a danger to others. If I understand it correctly, there were three women inmates in that holding cell that were moved to another cell. If it is found she was murdered, placing her alone points to potentially a pre-meditated murder.

That's exactly what it looks like.

Nobody can kill themselves with a plastic bag, a person would pass out first. Their story is impossible.

If she did wrap the bag over her face, once passed out, death would have been a matter of a few minutes.

But at this point both cnn.com and nbcnews.com are still saying she was found hanging. So the L.A. Times article may not be accurate.

Why does everyone assume she had it over her head? Maybe she just had it up against her face, held there by someone else. Since they official story only changed after they found out a second (and objective) autopsy was going to be done - I have no reason to believe the M$M (they are always a day late) cares about accuracy.

just watched the dashcam video...

Critical thinking is critical.

if not doctored...

The story seems to keeps shifting which once again smells like coverup

Wait...that ISN'T the sentence for that minor traffic violation?

This whole thing has stunk to high heaven from the start...and now they release clearly doctored video "evidence" of the stop itself...

Time for the Feds to take over that department and clean it root and branch...

several years ago, here in Texas at Rusk State Mental Hospital, a hospitalized inmate attempted to suffocate himself with a plastic bag. He wasn't successful but caused irreversible brain damage.
There was a big deal about this and all plastic bags were removed from cells and rooms of people in custody of the state because the family of this man sued the state and won a lot of money.

So...looks like they recycled the "story".

On edit....here is another case that was similar that went to the Supreme Court of Texas but was remanded back to the lower courts. I do not believe this is the same case because I was pretty certain the man didn't die. However, I could be wrong...I've slept a while since then. I do know that because of it, plastic bags were no longer allowed to be used with people in custody.
https://www.hop-law.com/texas-supreme-court-examines-whether-state-mental-hospital-can-be-liable-for-patients-death-by-asphyxiation-from-plastic-bag/
>>>>>snip
Travis Black was a psychiatric patient in Rusk State Hospital when he was found unconscious with a plastic bag over his head. Efforts to resuscitate him were unsuccessful and he died. An autopsy determined Travis died of asphyxiation and concluded that he committed suicide.

His parents, the Blacks, sued Rusk State Hospital alleging, in part, that the hospital was negligent by providing or allowing Travis access to a plastic bag that was inherently dangerous in an inpatient psychiatric setting. On appeal, the hospital argued the case should be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction because the claims did not fit within any waiver of the hospital’s immunity from suit.

As relevant to the parent’s claim against the hospital, the Tort Claim Act provides that a governmental unit is liable for “personal injury and death so caused by a condition or use of tangible personal or real property if the governmental unit would, were it a private person, be liable to the claimant according to Texas law.” TEX.CIV. PRAC. &REM.CODE § 101.021(2).

The Blacks alleged that the Hospital’s negligent in providing, furnishing, or allowing Travis to access the plastic bag involved a use or condition of tangible personal property. The Blacks emphasized that the Hospital’s policy classified the plastic bag as inherently dangerous in an inpatient psychiatric setting
- See more at: https://www.hop-law.com/texas-supreme-court-examines-whether-state-mental-hospital-can-be-liable-for-patients-death-by-asphyxiation-from-plastic-bag/#sthash.etMnb3At.dpuf

Seems like the self-preservation instinct would compel one to tear it away from one's face in time. Seems like you wouldn't pass out as fast as hanging, either. Don't know for sure, but this seems fishy.

Well, isn't that interesting.