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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCrying kid in diner ignites Facebook war between mom, owner
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_28511772/crying-kid-diner-ignites-facebook-war-between-mom?source=JBarTicker
Darla Neugebauer, owner of Marcy's Diner in Portland, is defending her actions amid social media uproar touched off when the child's mother blasted Neugebauer on Marcy's Facebook page. Neugebauer defended herself in a profanity-laced response. The initial wave of reaction included people who said they'll never eat at the restaurant again; this morning, although Neugebauer's post had been deleted, the diner's Facebook page was flooded with support for the owner.
Neugebauer wrote on Facebook that the girl had been crying for more than 40 minutes by the time she slammed her hands on the counter and told the girl to be quiet. She told WCSH-TV that her waitress had warned the parents that the order of three 12-inch pancakes was not only too large for the child but would take extra time to prepare. The parents nevertheless stuck with the order, she said, then proceeded to ignore their child's crying and didn't help her eat once the food arrived.
"Life's full of choices and you've got to live with all of them," Neugebauer said. "I chose to yell at a kid, it made her shut-up, which made me happy, it made my staff happy, it made the 75 other people dining here happy, and they left, they may never come back, other people may not come in. Their loss really."
Tara Carson, the mother of the child, wrote on Facebook that anyone with young children should understand that crying is normal after waiting such a long time for food.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)I am a mother. I never let my children disturb public places by crying for 40 minutes, or 20 minutes, or ten minutes. I removed them if necessary but mainly, I planned ahead so the kids weren't faced with a 40 minute wait.
pnwmom
(109,001 posts)Here's a recipe for 8 pancakes that takes 20 minutes -- and that's with the batter not pre-made.
She only wanted 3 pancakes, so that should be less than 10 minutes.
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/good-old-fashioned-pancakes/
(I'm not much of a pancake person, so I linked to the recipe -- but I've watched family members cook them often enough and they can be made very quickly.)
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)You order and then they go in order. Mom is so wrong here. Rather rude to keep the kid crying that long. Why should paying customers have to listen to that?
pnwmom
(109,001 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Thank you....more reading to do for me.
Nac Mac Feegle
(971 posts)Flapjacks are easy. Just portion out your pre-made batter onto the flat-top. By the time you've put the batter back in the reach-in, you're ready to flip them. By the time you get your plate ready to catch them, they're ready to go. Just put on your sides, and move them to the window. It takes just a couple of minutes for the whole process. The whole thing about a diner kitchen is that stuff is ready to be made up and served fast.
Even Mickey Mouses only take a couple seconds longer.
The flat-top (griddle) is hot enough to cook them quite quickly.
Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
And the scars.
Coventina
(27,212 posts)It sounds like the parents are idiots AND jerks!
Who leaves their kid crying in a public place for 40 minutes?
That's abusive to the child AND to the public!
I support the business 100%, assuming the facts, as reported, are true.
Warpy
(111,374 posts)What the fuck were those idiot parents thinking? Why didn't one of them take the kid outside to calm her down? What sort of MORONS don't understand what "special order" means to a grill getting slammed?
If I ever went to Portland, I'd eat there. At least I'd know those people won't be back.
While I think Neugebauer should have yelled at the parents and not the kid, I understand her frustration.
msongs
(67,459 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)and don't have these issues.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,201 posts)(Thankfully, I'm not one of them. And my scientific research has also proven that 3 out of 4 toddlers prefer grits to strained asparagus. I think it's because they're more fun to dip into and smear on the table, but more research is needed. )
Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,201 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)pnwmom
(109,001 posts)JI7
(89,279 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)12" pancakes take exactly the same time to cook as 4" pancakes. The cook time depend on the heat of the grill and the thickness - not diameter - of the pancake.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)ahead of others? I've been to busy breakfast places, the pace is breakneck and everyone present has somewhere to be very soon after and on time.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)Unless this is more like a Dutch Baby, which would be easily 12 inches in size and would take some time, since they have to be baked.
Or they were already in the weeds with orders and advised that the order would take 40 minutes for any order. Now that I could see happening.
Ms. Toad
(34,114 posts)xmas74
(29,676 posts)Of course, once I thought about Dutch babies I really wanted one. I still want one even while typing this out.
If I walked into a restaurant and they said 40 minutes for one of those, I might wait. For regular pancakes, nope.
(Just wanted to add: they have really good prices at the restaurant. One of the meals was two eggs, bacon,sausage, corned beef hash, home fries and your choice of toast or one pancake-for $7.25! That's a heck of a good deal.)
cvoogt
(949 posts)two. years. old. 36 inches of pancake. The parents have some really unrealistic expectations of their child and the world.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)cvoogt
(949 posts)good idea
Response to Miles Archer (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"your little snowflake is a brat--- and you made them that way"
Fucking really?
... at 2?
I would have taken my child out of there pretty much immediately, at that age, certainly not allowed 40 minutes of screaming in an indoor place. Yes, the right thing for the parent to do is to remove the child from the situation if at all possible.
But discipline and "control" are for older kids. 2 year olds are practically babies. They don't have a whole ton of wiring for self-control. Fuck.
Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #10)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But it's fucking ridiculous to say they "made their special snowflake a brat". I'll reiterate, the kid is two. I know it's fun for some folks to axe grind against helicopter parents or yuppies or special snowflakes or bronies or people with iphones or whatever the fuck is trending this week in 15 minute hate land, but the fact of the matter is, you don't "discipline" a 2 year old out of having temper tantrums.
ALL 2 year olds are "brats" sometimes, because again, they are not WIRED for a fuckload of self-control.
Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #14)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"discipline" babies and stuff.
Brings to my mind, fairly or unfairly, James Dobson and his bullshit around "correcting" errant infants and whatnot. Sick fuck.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/09/21/248654/-James-Dobson-and-religiously-motivated-child-abuse
So that's where I'm coming from. Honestly I think the way to shut up a 2 year old is to change the channel for them, or as it sounds like in the story, feed them, because according to the restaurant owner the parents were ignoring the kid, not feeding her. Certainly if I had been the parent in question I would have been out of there after maybe 2-3 minutes of screaming, max. Then we get out and try to calm down that way. Short of being on an airplane or somewhere where it is physically impossible to leave, I wouldn't subject other members of the public to that.
They all should have handled it differently, but I don't put any blame on the toddler.
Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #21)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
ann---
(1,933 posts)We took our kids out to eat (not in fancy places, tho) from the time they were
infants - that's the only way they learn how to behave
in that kind of social setting.
If a parent ignores a crying child for more than 5 minutes
in public that is neglect, in my opinion. She should have
take the child outside to calm her and if that didn't work,
go home.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"sometimes, your little snowflake really is a brat..."
And they also often grow up calling another two year old as such...
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)and make a violent gesture. I can find no way to applaud someone yelling at a small child.
I would not let my children annoy others for that length of time but on the other hand I sure as hell would not let some stranger treat my children that way.
And 40 minutes is too damned long to make 3 lousy pancakes.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"are there no workhouses"?
Paka
(2,760 posts)Bad parenting is the issue here.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)either a restaurant manager or for that matter anyone should be treating other people's children, I have to disagree.
She could have easily taken the parents to task without yelling the child.
I know many people think that treating children decently is some kind of newfangled progressive bullshit that leads to weak people but I think that treating children with a little respect and kindness might lead to fewer assholes and neurotics in the world.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The owner should have taken the parent aside and said "hey- maybe you can take your child for a walk while we put your meal together, see if that doesn't calm her down.. the screaming is starting to upset the other patrons, you see"
But there's a lot of bullshit in the aether, and these stories seem to activate it. People - particularly ones, I've noticed, who either have never dealt with actual kids or only did so many decades ago- seem to enjoy tilting at all sorts of bullshit imaginary windmills about how parents now either coddle their kids or are overprotective or in some other way are doing parenting all wrong--
not like in the good old days when dad careened around the neighborhood with 10 cigarettes between his lips, a beer between his knees and gaggle of 4 year olds riding on top of the station wagon - seat belts are for special snowflakes, yakno! - to the toy store to buy lawn darts dipped in plutonium and red dye number two.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)No one wants to dine while a child is crying, least of all the parents.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It should not have gotten to the point it did. Sounds to me like the restaurant owner needs to switch to decaf or at least could have handled it differently- but the fact that it got to that point at all is on the parents.
dem in texas
(2,674 posts)Yes, the terrible 2's didn't get that name for nothing. A two year old can easily get out of control. They can get worked up and once they let loose, they don't know how to calm down and get go on and on until they finally wear out. If my 2 yr olds started to cry or act out, I'd remove them from the room until they had calmed down. This is such an important lesson for the child. It teaches them that bad behavior will not be tolerated and that they need to learn self control. I had 3 kids and my son at age 2 was a total hell raiser. He turned out to be a fine man, very successful in life and has raised two beautiful daughters.
Paka
(2,760 posts)The owner could have restrained herself or better yet, dealt directly with the parents. I'm sure she was feeling the pain of her customers and simply lost it.
All children lose it now and then, but it is inexcusable for the parents to let it continue that long. Take the child outside if necessary, but don't subject the other customers to such an extensive meltdown.
pnwmom
(109,001 posts)They could have been done in 10.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)So the 40 minutes includes after the food was delivered.
Paper Roses
(7,475 posts)I have been in restaurants where children cry. Have never heard of a situation like this. I feel sorry for the owner. Her customers are sure to be uncomfortable dining in the same room. Shame on the patents!
Imagine what it must be like in the house with that child and the parents? What do they do, let the poor kid cry all day?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)to cool off.
I did not read the link, but from what I read in the above paragraphs, I fully support the owner in this one.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)If the parents don't set limits, someone else can.
Response to zappaman (Reply #9)
Warren DeMontague This message was self-deleted by its author.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Hell, on the East Coast screaming at people, getting in their face and banging violently on their shit seems to be basic conversational politeness, so I rescind my point.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Most people who were interviewed there thought the owner lost her cool and could have handled it better. This diner is in a tourist area , this is the height of summer tourism, and she's probably seen more than her share of entitled people acting badly.
That said, in Maine what she did just doesn't fly, especially the Facebook tirades. She would have had the full support of the diners though had she just calmly told the parents they were no longer welcome in her place.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)As do I. I don't care who you are or how profoundly annoyed you are by children or what side of the bed you woke up on, it's not okay to yell at someone else's BABY (you really shouldn't yell at your own baby, either, but that's a different discussion)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2015/07/21/about-that-kid-in-the-restaurant/
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Facebook. That's not defensible no matter how much the parents were at fault. Full stop.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)...I've recently re-connected with a number of friends from those days and they derive a great deal of pleasure from using the term "Massholes."
It's TRUE..."screaming at people, getting in their face and banging violently on their shit" really was the cream in our coffee.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)had them leave, rather than yell at the child. She crossed the line when she did that. Other than that, the parents are to blame.
murielm99
(30,776 posts)That is her right as an owner.
If I had been dining in the restaurant, I might have asked the parent, politely, to do something about her child. I would tell her that she was disturbing others. If that had not worked, I might have spoken to the manager. If that failed, I would have left.
I raised three kids. I know what small children can be like in public if they are tired or hungry. I was embarrassed many times. What parent has not been embarrassed in public? You may think your child is the center of the universe, but the rest of us do not!
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/portland/2015/07/19/portland-diner-facebook-post/30391407/
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I mean making 2 dollars an hour and the parents ignoring her....perhaps That was the tipping point. Poor bashing once again (not you).
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)they were creating a disturbance and refused to leave.
Coventina
(27,212 posts)This was a no-win situation for the owner.....
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Coventina
(27,212 posts)the story.
Headlines are written to generate interest / outrage.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)been annoyed with myself for falling for that tactic.
Paka
(2,760 posts)LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)First, the parents should have taken the child outside to calm her down or, if that failed, cancel their order and leave. No one wants to listen to a screaming child when they are trying to enjoy a meal.
Second, the owner should not have yelled at the child. If the parents are too stupid or inconsiderate to keep their child's crying from disturbing the other patrons, it is not the fault of the child. The owner would have been within her rights to ask the couple to either get the child under control or leave so the other diners could enjoy their meal.
A couple of observations:
The size of a pancake doesn't make much difference in cooking time. If the pancakes are 3, 6, or 12", they all cook for about the same amount of time. If it takes 40 minutes to make pancakes, you're doing it wrong.
Discipline is not a dirty word and doesn't mean punishment. Discipline is teaching a set of rules for good behavior and is often taught by example. Children don't ordinarily have any self-discipline, so it's up to the parent to teach their children how to behave in different situations.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)isn't really in a position to "learn and follow rules for good behavior" vs. melting down when tired, hungry, etc.
2 year olds melt down sometimes, it pretty much goes with the wiring and the territory. The proper thing to do would have been to try and calm the kid down, feed the kid something besides the interminable never-arriving pancakes, or take the kid out of the restaurant until the screaming stopped. Clearly.
But this idea that the parents here arent "teaching the kid to behave" is bullshit, and completely ignores the fact that, again, the "kid" in question is 2.
And all the other bargle in the thread about how the parents "think their kid is the center of the universe" is just being pulled out of peoples' cranky butts. The parents were, by various accounts, ignoring the kid as well as the other patrons in the restaurant, at least until the proprietor freaked out. That's not 'overly coddling a special snowflake', that's being selfish, clueless, and derelict in your job as a parent. Different thing entirely.
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)A child should be the center of the parent's universe, and good parenting involves teaching a child what behavior is appropriate in different situations. In this case that would mean going to family friendly venues and taking snacks or quiet activities to occupy the child while you wait for the food.
You can't expect perfect behavior from a two year old, but with discipline you teach them what is acceptable and two years old is not too young to start.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The parents fucked up in this situation, but it wasn't about "discipline", it was about responding appropriately to the kid's behavior and needs.
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)child. The parents should never have let the situation escalate the way it did and the owner should have confronted the parents and not yelled at the child.
That being said, discipline is a very important part of raising children and it should start when they are young. It's so much easier to teach good behavior if they haven't already learned bad behavior. Even young children benefit from knowing the boundaries and that mom and dad will be there to help them adhere to the rules. Parenting is a non stop teaching experience.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Because as far as I am concerned, people who get excessively hung up on "disciplining" children who are too young to internalize it, are part of the fucking problem.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/09/21/248654/-James-Dobson-and-religiously-motivated-child-abuse
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)I'm talking about at all.
When you put an infant in a car seat and buckle them up every time you get into the car, you are using discipline.
When you put your child in the high chair and teach him/her not to throw food on the floor, you are using discipline.
When you teach your child to brush their teeth every night before they go to bed, you are using discipline.
Discipline can be establishing a routine for daily activities or teaching certain behaviors by providing a good example. It doesn't mean punishment and it can be beneficial for children of all ages, even the very young.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)You keep ignoring the fact that the child in question here is 2. If we were talking about a 6 year old, or a 4 year old even, it would be a totally different story.
But since this is obviously going to inevitably degenerate into another one of these tired DU threads where people trot out tropes to axe grind against, and tilt at the imaginary windmills they have in their heads- it's already happened, in fact- let me add this:
All the bullshit one hears on, say, political websites where the demographics skew a bit ...older than the internet in general, crap about "in my day" and grousy bullshit about screens and minecraft and "special snowflakes" and "everyone gets a trophy"; I'm gonna add this, and then I'm done playing:
The first special snowflake generation has grown to voting age and is largely responsible for putting a Democrat in the white house for the past 7 years (and, in the process, protecting the social security of people who piss and moan about 'those kids today'). You're welcome.
The "everyone gets a trophy" kids matured into "everyone should have the right to get married" adults. Funny how that works.
But, you know, back in the day shit was done so much better.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)can't discuss a situation without resorting to the use of profanity. And don't lecture me about having "tender ears". I was an officer in the military and I probably heard more profanity in one year than you have every spoken or written in your lifetime, and it doesn't bother me in the least in the right context. However, if you can't express yourself in a conversation about small children without using profanity, you need to improve your writing skills.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But honestly, I don't really give a shit. Don't like how I write, put me on fucking ignore. Or be amazed.
I suspect my post hit a nerve, that's the real issue.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)you did not hit a nerve, I have no children of my own - by circumstance, not necessarily by choice - so I don't want to get into arguments about how to best deal with cranky two year olds - I don't think I am qualified to an opinion on the subject unless the parents simply ignore the situation to the detriment of everyone around them.
And your profanity doesn't bother me in the least; as I wrote I have heard and seen a lot worst. So no, I won't be putting you on ignore; maybe you will have something valuable to say someday. However, as a totally neutral observer, I find that your profanity is counterproductive to making your point especially when you are discussing the behavior of little children. But hey, it is evidently tolerated around here, so rant on brother.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)As for your totally unasked for critique of my writing style, again, I don't particularly care. Can't fucking please everybody, you see.
Paka
(2,760 posts)and Welcome to DU.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)How do you do this? It's not hard. I was a single mother and I took my child nearly everywhere with me. If I wanted to go out to eat, she went with me. If I wanted to go to a movie, she went with me. She learned how to act in public at a very young age.
So, how is it done? When you take a young child out to eat you do the following things:
1) Bring something to keep them occupied. Not a loud toy or anything of that nature but a coloring book, maybe a plush toy or even a story book to read together.
2) Interact with the child. Point things out on the menu to them, ask them what they want to eat (even if they won't tell you or can't quite say it yet), talk about the table or the wall paper or anything. Just interact with them.
3) When you place the order ask how long it will take. If the server says there are a number of customers ahead of you consider leaving. Tell the server that you'd love to stay but don't think you're child can wait that long and tell them that you'll be back another time when it's not so busy or without your child. It's not a big deal but please do it before the order is placed.
If you know there will be a wait and you decide to stay:
-Always bring a snack before you ever leave the house. I always had packs of raisins in my purse or snack crackers.
-Ask the server if they have fruit, saltines or even dry cereal on hand that can be brought out with your drinks, in case you've forgotten your snack.
-Don't sit the entire time, waiting for the order. Get up with the little one and walk around, stretch your legs. As long as you stay out of the staff's way this isn't a problem at most places.
-Keep interacting with the child. Show interest.
-For pity's sake, when the food is delivered immediately attend to the child. Get that pancake cut up and ready for the little one to snack on. The adults can wait another minute, little one has waited far too long.
-Finally, if little one starts crying it's time to go outside. Take them out to walk around outdoors, if possible. As you're walking out the door let a server know that you'll be back in a few minutes to finish up. If it takes more than five minutes to calm down pop back in the door long enough to tell a server that you'll be leaving and you'd appreciate it if your meal could be packed up to go.
Over time the kids learn how to act in public places and it's not such a big deal. I left a restaurant once with my child-just once. She knew why we left. The next time we went back she did well and never had a problem. She was two years old. It's not a bad thing to teach a child how to act in public and the sooner they learn it easier it is for everyone around them.
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)I was a single mother of four. I had no problems taking my kids to public places because I had taught them how to act since they were small. We would have an occasional moment, but you deal with it and move on.
There's nothing like having complete strangers compliment you on how well behaved your children are. It makes the kids proud, too.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Imagine that.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)telling her she was such a "good girl". We had a couple of restaurant managers who would come to our table and compliment us on how well-behaved she was and how pleased they were with us choosing their restaurant. There was a diner we would go to where the manager would take her by the hand when it wasn't busy and walk her up to the counter so she could watch the short order cook. The cook would wave at her and then make her something special.
Kids love that kind of positive attention.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But I question whether your kid was "taught" not to melt down, or grew out of it naturally.
Either way, distracting them, feeding them, or otherwise addressing whatever is causing the meltdown is not "teaching them" not to do it, any more than changing a screaming baby's diaper is teaching them not to poop in their pants.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)One of my kids never had a tantrum. The other had frequent tantrums. I was the same with them. It had nothing to do with parenting.
Children are individuals, and kids who have tantrums can't help it. They have to outgrow it, and 2 is too young for that.
Having said that, if your kid is having a tantrum, you take your kid out of the restaurant. We just avoided eating out for the most part when the tantrumy kid was that age. She couldn't help it, but of course no one else in the restaurant wanted to deal with that and they shouldn't have to.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)That doesn't seem so difficult.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)However, a 2 year old having a meltdown isn't indicative of a "bratty special snowflake" who hasn't been "taught discipline"- 2 year olds have meltdowns, it's not about a "lack of discipline".
Abso-fucking-lutely the parents should have removed the kid after the 1st minute or so. If anyone is disputing that, it's not me. What I'm disputing are these goofy armchair parenting arguments about how "in my day kids were seen and not heard" or some such crap.
People have- predictably- taken this thread, like they always take threads like this- as an opportunity to wax nostalgic about the good old days and whine endlessly about modern parenting styles or facebook or unleaded gasoline, or whatever it is this week.
Actually, the parents in this story, if the propietor is to be believed, totally ignored their kid as well as the other people in the eating establishment. They weren't "coddling their special snowflake", they kind of forgot the special snowflake was even there with them, at least until the owner started yelling.
That, to me, is way more indicative of a 1965 parenting style, than a 2015 one.
Paka
(2,760 posts)Discipline is an integral part of love at this age. The more I read the details here, the more I keep seeing clueless parents.
ann---
(1,933 posts)anyone with children should understand that CRYING is
disturbing to everyone in the restaurant so take your
food "to go" and go home with it.
One or two minutes of crying might be enough to bear,
but any longer than that and the parent should take
the child outside to the car till s/he stops crying or
get the food and GO HOME.
Only had to do that once.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Just askin'
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)But, full disclosure, I knew I'd set the teeth flying with that post. I understand my audience.
kiva
(4,373 posts)If so, then yes.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Straight and box. Straight and box.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But when they do- watch out!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's always that one line which is deceptively short. Then you get there, and see why.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Wants a rain check and to send money via western union? And argue about an old receipt?
Please god No!!!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)i love that one.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)The puffs of smoke coming out of my ears.
The indignence of those feeling they are ripped off can be kind of cute, if I'm feeling patient. But I'm usually not. Note to self- keep busy in old age so I don't start to enjoy the A&P way too much.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)At least have the courtesy to not shop during the lunch rush, olds!!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)phylny
(8,390 posts)have to search for it in their purse.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...and rummage around for five minutes for exact change.
Paka
(2,760 posts)and one or two times a years I write a check. I live a cash life basically, but there are still some things I am not there in person to pay, like sending money to DU and other things I support. Yes I'm old, and I do know in 2015 bitcoin reigns, but fortunately my bank still allows checks.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I am...I can't carry the pennies around forever...they get heavy...
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's the people who are literally there for 45 minutes haggling over coupons, that I'm talking about.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)so that the coupon transaction is fast. I don't like dealing with them too much unless they are for items I absolutely will buy anyway. Plus, I regularly check for expired ones and toss them prior to shopping.
It's a waste of my time, too, to haggle over coupons...
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Children have internal clocks when it comes to hunger. They need to eat at certain (approximate) times. If they don't, after awhile, they no longer feel hungry - but they're very upset. One Mom in the class complained that her kids were cranky at dinner time, squirmed in their chairs and didn't eat. She'd nag at them to sit still and eat and then her husband got upset with the whole crew of them. Turned out Husband ran a family owned furniture store and never got home until 7 p.m. so Mom served dinner at 7.
Meanwhile, the kids were hungry around 5 p.m. When the psychologist explained about internal clocks and feeding them early, mom whined that was the only time for the whole family to be together. Meanwhile, her husband just wanted to unwind for at least 30 minutes when he got home, before sitting down to eat. The psychologist suggested she feed the kids at 5 p.m., have dinner w/her husband and have the whole family share desert. He pointed out that there was no positive aspect to the "family time" as she was presently arranging it.
AT the next week's class, this Mom was beaming. The new schedule worked beautifully and she, Dad & the kids were all in good spirits at their respective meal times and their joint desert times.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)is for a 40 year old woman to throw a screaming fit right back
No one's pancakes are good enough to wait 40 minutes for.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)or manager did nothing about a screaming child who was ignored by rude parents. I once posted on DU about one such incident and a flame war erupted. I received little support and was told that parents are well within their rights to allow their child to scream and throw food, and, if I didn't like it, I should stay home. And that poster was not being snarky.
From what I gather about this incident, the pancakes arrived but the parents weren't feeding the kid who was screaming and carrying on. The owner could definitely have handled the situation more tactfully, but I applaud her for considering the other patrons' right to a pleasant dining experience. The parents sound like morons.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.wcsh6.com/story/news/local/portland/2015/07/19/portland-diner-facebook-post/30391407/
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Whatever happened to removing your screaming children from the restaurant/store/dmv/etc? It's simple courtesy to everyone else.
Yes, you're supposed to ignore a temper tantrum and not reward it. That rule, however, doesn't apply when the temper tantrum affects strangers.
In general, I'm opposed to most younger children being taken to most restaurants. Not just for the other patrons, but for the kid. Taking a two year old to a busy, unfamiliar place and then expecting her to not act like a two year old is just cruel to the two year old. In some ways it sucks to be the parent of young children; you have to sacrifice things like movies and restaurants (and sleep, and sanity).
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)My 92-year-old mother is an old school Catholic I take to church on Sundays. I can't believe the parents who bring toddlers in and allow them to cry, scream, run up and down the aisles, etc. Complaints to the ushers go unheeded. The attitude is "We don't want to rock the boat and make anyone feel unwelcome." Really? How about providing some child care so that parishoners don't have to be subjected to other people's unruly kids.
There are people with a strong sense of entitlement and no common sense who think it's perfectly ok for their kids to act up in public and other people should just accept it. It's rude and selfish, and too many people in a position to do something about it are so afraid of stepping on toes or losing business that they make life miserable for the many to cater to the rude behavior of a few.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I imagine most of them laugh it up while their three year old brats throw food at other patrons and knock down waitresses with full trays of food because you "have to let kids be free to make mistakes".
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)out by explaining that I was the parent of a small child and was a teacher of small children. Made no difference. I was still accused of hating kids. You're right. No win situation.
shrike
(3,817 posts)Long story. And no, I didn't know the kid.
But there really has been a sea change. I remember laughing with someone about what suckers we were: we went to church, without anything to entertain us, and our parents expected us to behave -- and we did.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Now I want to know. Superballs are not that large and pretty hard to hit someone with. Someone either had a good aim or very good luck.
shrike
(3,817 posts)We were having dinner at a local Mexican restaurant. A gumball like machine sold superballs, and a kid's dad bought him a bunch. He immediately began throwing them around the restaurant and one hit me in the head. With so many to throw, the odds were in his favor.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)it could have bounced off a few different things before hitting you. God I hope his parents apologized to you.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I've had hypoglycemia as an adult and it is hell. The parents were irresponsible in not feeding the child. They didn't help the child eat? WTF is wrong with them?
I've had to argue with bosses that didn't want to take a lunch break, and tell them they could call my doctor and discuss it with him. The kid needed protein, not a huge pancake full of starch and sugar. A piece of cheese and some crackers maybe?
Everybody involved but the kid has serious problems. If you have hypoglycemia and don't eat, eventually you will get dizzy and pass out. You can die from low blood sugar. Everyone thought hypoglycemia was a fad disease in the 1980s but in my case it was real.
Meanwhile, the woman yells at the kid, terrorizing the kid, and the kid doesn't get fed anyway. No problems were solved. They were just made worse.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)The parents are inconsiderate jerks and the owner is an asshole who thinks yelling at a child is the only way to keep them quiet.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Over the last few years it certainly seems like more parents seem think it is okay for their children to run wild and/or cause prolonged disturbances in public places. These parents seem to be totally oblivious to their children's behavior. And I thoroughly understand that dealing with some children is more challenging than others. I also understand that in certain situations, children, especially very young children are reacting, well like children regardless of how well they have been raised. However, some parents of children with unchecked disturbing behavior seem to have the attitude that they are just children and that's what children do and since they have decided to put up with it, so should everyone around them.
No, that is only what children do if their parents allow it. Parents are responsible for the behavior of young children. I think that most reasonable adults understand that children will get out of hand occasionally and are very patient with such situations, especially if the parent is doing his/her best to deal with it. What is not acceptable is for the parents to ignore the situation as if it wasn't happening rather than dealing with it or removing the child from the premise.
Allowing a child to fuss and cry for forty minutes in a public place without remedial action is totally unacceptable, regardless of the situation. If the parents were not pleased with the service at the restaurant, they should have taken it up with owner or left; it certainly is not an excuse to allow a child to disturb all of the other patrons of the restaurant.
Frankly if I had been one of the the other dinners, I would have blamed the owner for not intervening. Should she have yelled at the child? No, but I can understand her frustration. And the child stopped crying; that should tell us something. Either the parents did not try to deal with the child's crying or the child has no respect for them because she is spoiled rotten. Even if I am totally off base with that last comment, nothing excuses the parents for not taking the child out of the restaurant until she calmed down.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)mainly because it's a waste of money: "I'll have the prime rib, my wife will have the swordfish, and our daughter will have your finest tater tots."
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,505 posts)the parents that go along with that bullshit.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)The kid's menus are awful. She ate what I ate and learned to appreciate it. When they are little most places don't have a problem with it. At the most I might order an extra side of something. Chicken nuggets and tots are bad habits when it comes to dining out.
I also tipped well, which helped the situation.
Retrograde
(10,164 posts)I had some friends who started taking their son out to eat, once a week, when he was about 2. They started with very informal, child-friendly places and gradually moving more upscale as he grew up. By the time he was about 7 he was able to go anywhere and behave better than many adults.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Plus places that aren't as busy wouldn't have as long of a wait for food. I get the sneaking suspicion that the restaurant this took place in was pretty busy at the time.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Not screaming or crying, but he was just gross dunking pizza in ranch and getting it everywhere. He was 9 at the time and knew better. I told him if he ever acted like that again I'd never go out to eat with him again. I love that kiddo and he loves me....he hasn't acted like that again. But also, if we go to a place that tends to take longer, we order his food with the drinks.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I think before we even sit down we order the kids' food.
Another trick we learned is to let our daughter bring a friend or cousin. I don't know why it works since the kids just sit there playing on their phones, which she could do just as easily by herself.
If it's just the three of us our daughter will constantly touch mommy and say, "mum... mum... mum.. mum... mum... mum... mum... mum... mum... mum..." until she's ready to explode. Doesn't bother me though.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Wouldn't it be more like I'll have the BLT, my husband will have a bowl of chili, etc.?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)roamer65
(36,747 posts)Including gunplay in the parking lot like that one CEC in Florida.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Clearly, if the child was causing a disruption, the parents should take the child outside.
Clearly, if someone is in your business, and their child is causing a disruption, you address the parents, not the child.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Coventina
(27,212 posts)Apparently, the two year old was more mature than they were.
She at least acknowledged that another human being was unhappy besides herself.
Kingofalldems
(38,495 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)at least its free to view
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)behaved like jackasses. The parents for not feeding their screaming child and for letting said screaming child go on screaming without intervening or removing the child from the situation, and the owner for yelling at the child instead of remaining calm like she should have done.
I have 2 kids, and they have had their fair share of meltdowns. First rule of parenting: always have an exit plan (and be willing to use it at any given moment). Second rule of parenting: always have a backup plan, in case your first plan fails.
shrike
(3,817 posts)I read the Yelp reviews, and while almost all of them rave about the food, many reviewers also mention waiting thirty or forty minutes for breakfast. Also, the dining area sounds VERY tiny. So a kid letting it go with both barrels might have sounded worse there than at a bigger restaurant.
If the parents had checked on Yelp and noted the long wait times all of this might have been avoided.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)So what. Not really anyone's business. Pancakes take forty minutes to make? Sounds like an understaffed busy restaurant.
Yelling at someone who is crying never helps. Why is it ok to yell at a crying kid? Seriously f'd up. Ask the parents if you think they're being rude. Ask the restaurant to make pancakes within a reasonable amount of time. But yelling at someone else's upset kid? Totally unacceptable scumbaggery.
3catwoman3
(24,064 posts)...10 months old, we were in a small restaurant with family and friends. My son had casts on his feet to correct a minor congenital orthopedic problem. He was seated in an old-fashioned wooden high chair and was having a grand old time drumming his plaster-clad feet on the wooden foot support. It was really loud. No crying or screaming - just "drumming." Several different attempt to distract him failed utterly, so after about 5 minutes, he and I left and went home. My husband brought me takeout.
I would have done exactly the same thing if he had been having a meltdown, or otherwise behaving disruptively.
Regardless of what the restaurant owner should have done or not done, the parents should have left with their crying child. subjecting the rest of the diners to a crying toddler for 40 minutes is rude and thoughtless. Toddlers and preschoolers need to be able to count on adults to act like adults.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)The selfish, inconsiderate "parents" or the screaming brat, but my money is on the "parents". Hats off to the owner for tolerating 40 minutes of them. She lasted longer than I would.
chillfactor
(7,584 posts)it is no fun eating in a place like that,,it was up to the parents to handle that child and they apparently did not
when my kids were little and were causing a distrubance..my husband or I took them back to the car until they settled down...it did not take very long to settle a child down...
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Yes, it's time all of us reasonable composed adults make it clear that unruly tantrums are unacceptable, preferably by freaking the fuck out, banging on counters, and yelling at the top of our lungs at a 21 month old.
FUCK YOU, BABY! SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT!
WOO-HOO IM A FUCKING HERO OF ADULT FUCKING REASONABLENESS BECAUSE I SCREAMED AND YELLED AT A FUCKING BABY!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/22/im-the-mom-whose-encounter-with-an-angry-maine-diner-owner-went-viral-heres-what-happened/
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)I'll bet your parents were proud of their parenting skills. It is difficult to accept your "expertise" on how children should be treated when you, an adult, lack the self control of most children.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Irony, it's the shackles of youth.
And you know what? If any 21 month olds are reading this thread, I'll apologize to them for my inappropriateness.
However, assuming we're all adults, I suspect people can survive a few "fuck"s. (If not- you know, delicate ears and whatnot- then again, that little man icon with the red "x" is the ignore button. Works great.)
Also, speaking of which- just so we're clear- I don't give a flying philadelphia one whether you like my writing style OR accept my expertise on parenting matters. If you really think 21 month olds only have meltdowns because they haven't been "properly disciplined", great, bully for you.