expressed by people of color.

k/r

But certainly once they have allies seeing each other as enemies, the work of the 1%ers and their empathizers -- overt, secret, or otherwise -- is done.

spreading BS about an issue - racial justice - that I think most progressives unite solidly behind, for the purposes of setting people against each other via false dichotomies and plain old shit stirring.

Sowing dissension among one's enemies to benefit oneself is a strategy that goes back at least as far as Sun Tzu.

A lot of white progressives are like "of course we believe in solidarity, wait you were rude to Bernie, FUCK YOU FOREVER, YOU UNGRATEFUL BABIES."

It is painfully clear that this unity on racial justice exists only in the imaginations of white people, for many of whom "social issues are a distraction" whereas it's a life and death matter for black folks and their children.

Resenting those who burst that myopic bubble is counterproductive.

Believe whatever you want to and make sure to keep driving those wedges. The Repukes are loving it and laughing their asses off to see you doing their work and carrying their water for them by setting liberals against each other.



Buh bye.

black person has said about this episode.

Go ahead and listen to black people only when they agree with you, ignoring them when it inconveniences you, while preaching solidarity.

Real credible.

But, you're white, so you have the privilege of living in that bubble.

with several accompanying examples of that truth.

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc


very interesting list to study.

Racism is used as a tool to divide those that would throw off economic oppression. Fuck over some races, and keep the non-wealthy fighting over that to avoid the formation of a coalition to oppose it.

Some whites fall for "your poverty is the fault of minorities", and some don't. Then use that schism to characterize all whites as uncaring.

So you create a (in many cases false) divide on that issue over tone of statements, quantity of statements or outright racism in order to keep the people divided. That way we'll be too divided to do anything about both racial oppression and economic oppression. After all, gotta keep fucking over some races in order to keep that coalition forming. Otherwise, the guillotines come out.

(And before I'm attacked, no that doesn't mean it's all economics or economics would magically fix it. We need to work on both at the same time. Black lives matter and we are all being screwed economically. If we only fight for one of those, we will lose on both.)

And winning isn't it.

I wanted to see how, and if, DU responded.

In my book, this question is the ultimate test of principles for white liberals ... and DU is failing, miserably. It is one thing to (talk about) principled stances when you have nothing to lose and something to gain; it's quite the other to stand on principle, when you have nothing (tangible) to gain and quite a lot to lose.

IMO, the answer is plain ... DU is largely white space; and as such, the majority of posters here would never suggest the latter alternative (i.e., joining PoC and working with them) because they would get nothing out of it ... except, maybe, the warm and fuzzy feeling that they did the right thing ... you know, stood on principle.

Arguably, and in fact, removing the "divide" by delaying the economic justice fight and joining with PoC in the fight for racial equity would be acting against their personal interests ... addressing systemic and institutional racism would require an enormous investment in energy, resources and time; but, in the end, what would they gain? ... if successful, they would be faced with a level playing field and, the resultant, MORE competition in their race for personal wealth!

I know people like to frame this economic justice thing in lofty, altruistic "Look, I'm fighting for justice for all" terms, but the simple fact is they are fighting for more dollars in their pockets ... and if someone else gets more dollars in their pockets, cool ... so long as it is not more than what I get.

I guess one question I don't have the answer to is are resources (i.e. wages and benefits) kept artificially scarce to benefit the 1%? Or due to environmental pressures and technological limitations are we really looking at dividing up a smaller and smaller pie? If it's the former, than my response would be that if we can make the pie larger by limiting the amount taken by the 1% and wasted by inefficient short sighted capitalists, than there will be more for everybody. Yes people of color will get more of it; but there will be more for everybody.

If on the other hand we are dealing with a future of real scarcity, than economic justice will require white America to give up a certain amount of economic comfort.

Even setting that aside, there's no question that getting a real handle on our criminal justice system (which seems the most pressing need from what I understand) is going to require a certain amount of investment to set up those mechanisms that will ensure fair policing and an equitable justice system. And that investment may require an increase in taxes.

Bryant

"I wonder why the suggestion always seems to be for people of color to drop the racial discussions rather than for white people to join up with people of color and work with them. Either way would end the division."

I think many here are willing to work with anyone that is not totally exclusive and is willing to admit that we are all in this together? That it is not only about "Black Lives" - it is about all of us. Police brutality affects us all, however disproportionately it may be to the black population.

But, no one can expect a lot of support when they say "white lives" do not matter or that "all lives" do not matter, because it detracts from the movement, "Black Lives Matter". That is borderline racism, if not outright so. It is a matter of respect from all sides. Otherwise, it is not going to end well.

Is folks understandably excited about particular candidates tend to get political tunnel vision when it comes to analysis of particular issues. What's not understood, apparently, is that race is not a 'wedge" issue--the "wedge" is a very real human division that already existed. It needs no political conspiracy to drive it. For decades. For centuries.

Historically, we passed a lot of laws to try to address it, we've passed legislation that made it worse. We (whites) have never, ever to my knowledge actually "got" race. We stand on the outside, looking in often confused, often angry, generally dismissive, as we try everything from heartfelt activism to cultural assimilation to outright immersion in PoC communities.

It's far past time to listen, in sincere silence to a variety of PoC voices, understanding that diversity exists everywhere. Listen. And listen again. And when we are tired of listening, listen some more.

And I'd hate to have this locked as a conspiracy thread but I honestly believe there are people in government who say things they don't honestly mean in return for access and wealth.

I am convinced the racism and hate in America, and the world by and large, is the only thing that has ever trickled down from them and those who labor for them.

That's central to politics, especially during elections. People try to sell themselves.