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uhnope

(6,419 posts)
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:12 PM Jul 2015

Women’s college cancels ‘Vagina Monologues’ because it might offend women with penises, not vaginas

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/01/16/womens-college-theater-group-cancels-vagina-monologues-because-its-offensive-to-women-who-dont-have-one/

For nearly 20 years, people have been offended by “The Vagina Monologues.” There have been so many objections to the play that protests have long since stopped making news.

Playwright Eve Ensler wrote the much-loved, much-hated series of short monologues after interviewing women about sex, love, birth and violence. It shocked many theater-goers with its intense focus on such an intimate part of the body; some found it feminist, thought-provoking and liberating, others found it crass and demeaning.

Now it’s got some feminists offended, too.

As first reported in Campus Reform, a theater group at a women’s college says it will stop showing the play – forever.

The decision to end an annual Valentine’s Day tradition was debated on campus at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Mass., as are so many things about female identity.

The student-run theater group’s leaders asked the dean of students to send out an e-mail asking whether they should continue to run the play, according to Julia Ferrante, a spokeswoman for the college, and then another e-mail this week announcing the results of the survey. Because of students’ concerns about offending transgender people, the theater group canceled the play.
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Women’s college cancels ‘Vagina Monologues’ because it might offend women with penises, not vaginas (Original Post) uhnope Jul 2015 OP
So women can't talk about their lives for fear of offending other women. This is so wrong. n/t pnwmom Jul 2015 #1
How dare you dismiss their concerns! Cosmic Kitten Jul 2015 #32
I get wanting to be inclusive, but this seems like an overreaction. nt cyberswede Jul 2015 #2
it seems to be like a very insular group of people, talking only to each other La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2015 #4
No, it's entirely consistent. Laudably so. Igel Jul 2015 #16
i am a trans ally, and i think this is beyond stupid. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2015 #3
yes and it also crops up in that rarified and sometimes Orwellian world of academia uhnope Jul 2015 #9
totally agree. there are some circles of academic activists La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2015 #12
Like being politically correct instead of actually correct. Popcorn 51 Jul 2015 #18
Given that this is one of the most expensive universities in the country Cal Carpenter Jul 2015 #25
Me-protests that they think too much. immoderate Jul 2015 #30
No, the jerk canceled it because S/HE would be offended! Warpy Jul 2015 #5
"s/he"? Way to be horribly offensive about trans women, there! Spider Jerusalem Jul 2015 #11
Oh, FFS, the gender of the theater director was NOT specified in the excerpt. Warpy Jul 2015 #14
I should think that "womens' college" would be an enormous fucking clue, no? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2015 #15
The list of faculty profiles for Mt Holyoke lists a lot of male-sounding names. . . Journeyman Jul 2015 #21
That I know how to read articles? Spider Jerusalem Jul 2015 #23
Not necessarily. Mount Holyoke also includes transmen among its students, pnwmom Jul 2015 #19
I know a transwoman who is an MRAer. Popcorn 51 Jul 2015 #6
What is an MRAer? pnwmom Jul 2015 #7
Men's Right Association. Popcorn 51 Jul 2015 #10
I suspect that's not what this is about. I just think the young people at Mt. Holyoke pnwmom Jul 2015 #17
no. it's really not. NT La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2015 #13
Good mwrguy Jul 2015 #8
Let me take a wild guess that you haven't seen the play riderinthestorm Jul 2015 #20
But, but, but . . . there's "vagina" in the title. Vinca Jul 2015 #22
If it was changed to penis monologs abakan Jul 2015 #26
Silly season. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #27
This is what happens when censorship-happy people start to run amok. Warren DeMontague Jul 2015 #28
Please tell me this is an "Onion" article.. Peacetrain Jul 2015 #29
Johnson? Jo Neez Jul 2015 #31
Protester Urges Olney Theatre to Close Production of THE PRODUCERS Due to Hitler Jokes Dr. Strange Jul 2015 #33
The English, who were, you know, actually BOMBED by the Luftwaffe hifiguy Jul 2015 #37
Listen, don't mention the war. Dr. Strange Jul 2015 #40
"Shtum. shtum." hifiguy Jul 2015 #42
This is what comes of thinking that people have some kind of a right to never be offended. WillowTree Jul 2015 #34
Once that censorship/offended ship sails HappyMe Jul 2015 #35
Seeing as how it is the weekend, I already needed a drink. hifiguy Jul 2015 #36
I think we're trying to figure all this out. It's hard. nolabear Jul 2015 #38
If only corps. would cancel feminine hygiene TV ads Ilsa Jul 2015 #39
too bad Liberal_in_LA Jul 2015 #41
First they came for the Monologues, and I did not speak out— zappaman Jul 2015 #43
you win uhnope Jul 2015 #46
Now we're getting silly eom LiberalElite Jul 2015 #44
Why would a Trans woman be offended? Adrahil Jul 2015 #45

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
32. How dare you dismiss their concerns!
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jul 2015

I find it offensive and insensitive
to tell transgender people to STFU

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
4. it seems to be like a very insular group of people, talking only to each other
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jul 2015

and 'problematizing' something just because they can

i wonder how many trans women were actually even involved in this decision

Igel

(35,362 posts)
16. No, it's entirely consistent. Laudably so.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:29 PM
Jul 2015

There are people whose offendedness is evidence of others' offensiveness. You don't question the authenticity of their offendedness. They're on our team and their feelings must be given all due importance, which is a heck of a lot. We tell others that we don't like that they must not be offensive. Interpretations matter; intent doesn't. Words hurt, whatever their intent.

There are people whose offendedness is evidence that they need to be offended and that we're doing good. You don't question the importance of their offendedness, except to say how important it is to offend them. They're not on our team and we must ignore their feelings, or even be glad when we offend them. Words hurt, especially when intended. And if we're challenged, we may stand by that or weaselly say that we're just celebrating our ___________ and they should mind their own business and stop oppressing us.

But what to do when the means of offending the right people sudden offends people we think are right? Do we insist on our freedom of expression and right to be offensive? Or do we celebrate the authenticity of their (possible) feelings and suppress what we say to avoid giving offense, as we insist others do? Our values suddenly are in conflict with each other and we're in need of values clarification.

This is one, I'd argue the most consistent, outcome. Risibly so. It also points out a real fault-line in thinking. It's not about freedom of expression and celebrating something; it's about offending the right versus the wrong people.

Meanwhile, I'm still hoping this is from The Onion or some such site.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
3. i am a trans ally, and i think this is beyond stupid.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:18 PM
Jul 2015

trans people have real problems, and the vagina monologues and drag queens, are not their problems. i feel like these issues only crop up when trying to cater to a very exclusive and wealth group of individuals, not trans people overall.

while trans people (women and poc, particularly) are dying (through murder and suicide), this shit is really not their primary concern.


 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
9. yes and it also crops up in that rarified and sometimes Orwellian world of academia
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jul 2015

in certain fields of study, where it seems that forgetting the point has become a high art!

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
12. totally agree. there are some circles of academic activists
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jul 2015

who seem to never encounter people in the real world with real problems.

Popcorn 51

(84 posts)
18. Like being politically correct instead of actually correct.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jul 2015

In simple language - Just doing the right thing instead of hyperventilating over wild theories.

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
5. No, the jerk canceled it because S/HE would be offended!
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jul 2015

This is beyond stupid, almost as stupid as the word jumping and other bullying we see here every day, always done on someone else's behalf.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
11. "s/he"? Way to be horribly offensive about trans women, there!
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jul 2015

Not unexpected around here but still pretty ugly. (And it was the student theatre board that made the decision; RTFA!)

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
14. Oh, FFS, the gender of the theater director was NOT specified in the excerpt.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:26 PM
Jul 2015

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to be offended on someone else's behalf.

GOOD bye.

pnwmom

(109,000 posts)
19. Not necessarily. Mount Holyoke also includes transmen among its students,
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jul 2015

so they would be the he's.

From the article in the OP:

It clarifies which students can apply:

*Biologically born female; identifies as a woman
*Biologically born female; identifies as a man
*Biologically born female; identifies as other/they/ze
*Biologically born female; does not identify as either woman or man
*Biologically born male; identifies as woman
*Biologically born male; identifies as other/they/ze and when “other/they” identity includes woman
*Biologically born with both male and female anatomy (Intersex); identifies as a woman”

pnwmom

(109,000 posts)
17. I suspect that's not what this is about. I just think the young people at Mt. Holyoke
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:35 PM
Jul 2015

are extremely idealistic and went a little too far.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
20. Let me take a wild guess that you haven't seen the play
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 03:40 PM
Jul 2015

I can't believe anyone whose seen it wouldn't find this ridiculous in the extreme.

It's absolutely NOT just for women. My husband counts the Vagina Monologues as one of his favorite shows. It's message transcends gender.


Response to uhnope (Original post)

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
28. This is what happens when censorship-happy people start to run amok.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 04:29 PM
Jul 2015

Once that train gets rolling it becomes VERY hard to stop.

Dr. Strange

(25,925 posts)
33. Protester Urges Olney Theatre to Close Production of THE PRODUCERS Due to Hitler Jokes
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 04:57 PM
Jul 2015
Controversy is brewing at the Olney Theatre in their latest production of THE PRODUCERS. Several weeks into the run of the show, the company management and actors began receiving messages via email and Twitter from a man who thought it was insppropriate to joke about such sensitive material as Hitler. He began protesting outside the theater with signs such as, "SAY NO TO HITLER MUSICAL," and "HITLER NO JOKE."

In his blog, this protester urges the Olney Theatre to "Take It Down", stating: "While our nation is under attack by white supremacist terrorists from Confederates and their Nazi allies, the Olney Theatre Center (OTC) in Olney, Maryland suburbs of Washington DC has decided now is a good time to have a "satire" with the hate symbol of Adolf Hitler, and a musical number to Adolf Hitler."

...

More at https://www.broadwayworld.com/baltimore/article/Protester-Urges-Olney-Theatre-to-Close-Production-of-THE-PRODUCERS-Due-to-Hitler-Jokes-Actor-Responds-20150724


I have a plan.

1. Write a play involving Hitler discussing vaginas.
2. Harness the resulting outrage.
3. Convert the outrage into a usable form of energy.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
37. The English, who were, you know, actually BOMBED by the Luftwaffe
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 07:53 PM
Jul 2015

in the Battle of Britain, have been making Hitler jokes for years. Monty Python's Mister Hilter sketch springs immediately to mind.

All I can say about this display of toenail-chewing imbecility is

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
42. "Shtum. shtum."
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 09:03 PM
Jul 2015

"Mister Vibbentrop, its that nice Mister MacGoering from down the street on the telephone."

"Waugh, I don't like the sound of these 'boncentration bamps!'"

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
34. This is what comes of thinking that people have some kind of a right to never be offended.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 07:20 PM
Jul 2015

Face it, EVERYTHING is going to be offensive so someone. No, we shouldn't intentionally offend people, but we've got to stop this hypersensitivity. Give it a rest already!

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
36. Seeing as how it is the weekend, I already needed a drink.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 07:50 PM
Jul 2015

After reading that brain twisting nonsense, I think I will make it a double. In fact, a triple.

nolabear

(41,991 posts)
38. I think we're trying to figure all this out. It's hard.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 07:54 PM
Jul 2015

Hopefully we'll get accustomed to one another and realize that we have many variations and differences, and we can celebrate one without demeaning others.

Ilsa

(61,698 posts)
39. If only corps. would cancel feminine hygiene TV ads
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 07:58 PM
Jul 2015

for fear of offending trans women without menstruation.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
43. First they came for the Monologues, and I did not speak out—
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 09:07 PM
Jul 2015

First they came for the Monologues, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Monologueinist.

Then they came for the Colleges, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a College.

Then they came for the Vagina, and I did not speak out—
Because I have no vagina.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
45. Why would a Trans woman be offended?
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 09:10 PM
Jul 2015

I don't get it. Small sample, but I know two trans women and both are mystified by this.

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