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choie

(4,111 posts)
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:53 PM Jul 2015

Why the guilt trip?

First let me say...I love and care about people and I love and care about animals...

So I'd like to know why some DUers, some who I respect highly, are intent on making others (including me) feel guilty about being horrified at the killing of an innocent (read: non threatening) and endangered lion by a cruel, murderous asshole, whose desire it was to see the lion's head over his fireplace. Isn't it possible to be outraged over the deaths of innocent people while still having strong feelings over the illegal and needless death of an animal that was beloved by a nation? Is this a contest? Isn't enough that it's 24/7 of Bernie vs. Hillary; Democrats vs. DNC; Corporatists vs. Socialists. Must we also have a duel over this?

Choie

48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why the guilt trip? (Original Post) choie Jul 2015 OP
are you new here? guilt is what it's all about HFRN Jul 2015 #1
Nope choie Jul 2015 #12
I'd like to understand where you're coming from Change has come Jul 2015 #34
Don't let some passive aggressive shit stirrers get you down tularetom Jul 2015 #2
Thanks, Tularetom choie Jul 2015 #15
Ah, multitasking our outrage! PatrickforO Jul 2015 #19
I'm trying to get my 5 year old to like shrimp snooper2 Jul 2015 #3
For some, it's all they got. Juicy_Bellows Jul 2015 #4
Sanctimonious screeds of hyper-phallic bombast? PatrickforO Jul 2015 #20
Don't you just love... 3catwoman3 Jul 2015 #35
great phrase! DFL_Wellstone_dems Jul 2015 #36
Haha! Juicy_Bellows Jul 2015 #38
Some people get their undies in a bunch when other people talk about geek tragedy Jul 2015 #5
Ever stop to think it might not be about you? BainsBane Jul 2015 #6
Serioiusly?? choie Jul 2015 #8
Congratulations GitRDun Jul 2015 #14
+1000 Scootaloo Jul 2015 #37
There are a lot of trolls on DU RandiFan1290 Jul 2015 #41
Accepting that most people focus on more than one thing is a struggle for some... Violet_Crumble Jul 2015 #42
Even if you're being sarcastic, that's a pretty messed up comment Xipe Totec Jul 2015 #10
A perfect example.. choie Jul 2015 #13
Actually no BainsBane Jul 2015 #17
Yes, years spent talking about black lives is totally offset by two days of talking about a lion. jeff47 Jul 2015 #21
Many black people aren't seeing it as minor BainsBane Jul 2015 #24
How many white victims of violence have gotten as much attention as the lion? geek tragedy Jul 2015 #26
If whites were 21 times more likely to be shot by cops then not enough, but that's no the case... uponit7771 Jul 2015 #40
The increased likelihood of violence towards geek tragedy Jul 2015 #43
And they explain the years of discussion is overridden by two days about a lion because.........? nt jeff47 Jul 2015 #47
Well thank goodness choie Jul 2015 #22
You could find out yourself BainsBane Jul 2015 #27
Do you ever listen to yourself? choie Jul 2015 #33
You may not believe this but not one lion has tried to make me feel guilty tularetom Jul 2015 #23
So people who are posting about the murder of the national icon of an African geek tragedy Jul 2015 #25
I didn't say that BainsBane Jul 2015 #28
I'm not seeing any black folks here talk about it. geek tragedy Jul 2015 #30
Why? I don't search out Tweets for any topic. But if Mr. White is speaking of Blacks in Africa, as WinkyDink Jul 2015 #46
I couldn't disagree more BainsBane Jul 2015 #18
Solely? I don't THINK so. WinkyDink Jul 2015 #45
They haven't yet realized Warpy Jul 2015 #7
Any guilt you are feeling is on you. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #9
Yeah I'm a social worker choie Jul 2015 #11
I don't think guilt is the thing we should feel. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2015 #48
Please don't feel guilty, you got it right. All life is sacred. Zorra Jul 2015 #16
Was the post made directly about you, or was more general? ZombieHorde Jul 2015 #29
There's been at least 3 scold threads from people getting their undies in a bunch geek tragedy Jul 2015 #31
Some people love to play absolutes.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #32
For some, it's an outrage contest... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #39
Perhaps it IS a competition, but one for DU. WinkyDink Jul 2015 #44

choie

(4,111 posts)
12. Nope
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:54 PM
Jul 2015

Been a member since 2004, but the atmosphere has become more poisonous with each passing year. It's unfortunate.

Change has come

(2,372 posts)
34. I'd like to understand where you're coming from
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:01 AM
Jul 2015

You've been here a bit over a month! You've got this shit figured out

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
2. Don't let some passive aggressive shit stirrers get you down
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:05 PM
Jul 2015

Most of us are capable of outrage at more than one injustice at a time.

You don't have to feel guilty about being a compassionate human being. We need more like you.

PatrickforO

(14,576 posts)
19. Ah, multitasking our outrage!
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:17 AM
Jul 2015

That is true. The cop thing is getting out of hand. Totally.

But you know, the asshole that killed the lion - hey, I'm outraged about that TOO.

And I can do that...

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
3. I'm trying to get my 5 year old to like shrimp
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:07 PM
Jul 2015

She thinks fish are yucky but loves steak and bacon...

CRY FOR HELP!

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
4. For some, it's all they got.
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:09 PM
Jul 2015

Sanctimonious screeds of hyper-phallic bombast. Best to ignore or have a chuckle at the absurdity.

3catwoman3

(24,007 posts)
35. Don't you just love...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:23 AM
Jul 2015

...a good turn of phrase?

I hope I have occasion to use this soon. Trump will probably oblige.

 
36. great phrase!
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:25 AM
Jul 2015

Step 1-learn how to play a musical instrument.
Step 2-form band
Step 3-name it "hyper-phallic bombast"

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. Some people get their undies in a bunch when other people talk about
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jul 2015

what those other people want to talk about.

choie

(4,111 posts)
8. Serioiusly??
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:33 PM
Jul 2015

Who the fuck do you think YOU are? You don't know me...do you think you're the only person who cares about black lives? Take your goddamn sanctimonious crap elsewhere.

RandiFan1290

(6,237 posts)
41. There are a lot of trolls on DU
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 05:34 AM
Jul 2015

Just look at some of their post counts and think what kind of loser has time to post here so much....


Trolls




 



 

Violet_Crumble

(35,961 posts)
42. Accepting that most people focus on more than one thing is a struggle for some...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 05:56 AM
Jul 2015

It's as though they think there's some leaderboard where things in the news are ranked by them and anyone who has an opinion about anything but the one issue selected for top ranking is somehow minimising or ignoring that issue and must be lectured as though they've totally ignored it.

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
10. Even if you're being sarcastic, that's a pretty messed up comment
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:46 PM
Jul 2015

Maybe even worse if you are being sarcastic.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
17. Actually no
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:13 AM
Jul 2015

The entire discussion about black lives vs. the lion is to highlight the fact that black people are valued less in American society than animals. The problem is that when such discussions occur, many white people seem to focus first on their feelings. That is what happens with many discussions about racism, even the most lethal kinds. So when people point out the nature of our society in which black lives warrant less attention than Cecil, it speaks to the racism that allows that violence to be perpetuated. You have decided that is about making you feel guilty. My point was that it is not about you and your feelings, that whatever discomfort you might feel at having that disparity pointed out pales in comparison to the loss of human life, to what mothers around this country feel when their sons and daughters are killed by police. It is in fact a crucial point--the crucial point of anti-racism.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
21. Yes, years spent talking about black lives is totally offset by two days of talking about a lion.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:20 AM
Jul 2015

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
24. Many black people aren't seeing it as minor
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:28 AM
Jul 2015

They are on Twitter using lions as avatars as a statement that they are valued less. I believe they have a point. A few high profile cases have gotten attention, though not as much as the lion. Many, many more have gotten very little attention.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
26. How many white victims of violence have gotten as much attention as the lion?
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:36 AM
Jul 2015

My guess is none.

Right now you're arguing people are racist in favor of lions vs black people. Do you realize how asinine that is?

The lion is getting a lot more attention than most issues, certainly most individual crimes/victims, of all colors and creeds.

It's not racism when it gets more attention than victims of all races.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
40. If whites were 21 times more likely to be shot by cops then not enough, but that's no the case...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 05:16 AM
Jul 2015

... and equivocating seems disingenuous

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
43. The increased likelihood of violence towards
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 08:05 AM
Jul 2015

African-Americans is definitely racism.

People talking about a lion instead of talking about racism, abortion and veganism is not racism.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
47. And they explain the years of discussion is overridden by two days about a lion because.........? nt
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 11:35 AM
Jul 2015

choie

(4,111 posts)
22. Well thank goodness
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:26 AM
Jul 2015

You are here to point these truths out to we less enlightened, insensitive, self centered DUers.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
27. You could find out yourself
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:37 AM
Jul 2015

by reading some of the black press or looking on social media. Instead you chose to decide it was about making you feel guilty. Now, I don't know if people directly scolded you for your concern about the animal. That was not the approach I took. I wrote a thread commenting on the disparity. I did not attack anyone for their concern. When I saw you post this, I pointed out that it really isn't about you. You got very angry at that and because verbally abusive. You chose to make it about your "feeling guilty." I do not believe your guilt is what matters. I believe the epidemic of thousands of black people being murdered by police is far, far more important.

Who am I, as you crudely asked earlier? I'm someone who has figured out it's not about how I feel, that when I see a comment by someone, especially a black person, that says white people this or that, I don't personalize it. If I make myself the issue, I can't understand what they have to say about their experiences with racism. And if I don't try to understand their experiences, I have no ability to help make the situation better.

choie

(4,111 posts)
33. Do you ever listen to yourself?
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:52 AM
Jul 2015

You are incredibly patronizing..you don't have to lecture me or others on how
To be more empathetic towards others' experience of racism.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
25. So people who are posting about the murder of the national icon of an African
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:33 AM
Jul 2015

country are racist because it's their duty to talk about BLM 24/7 instead?

It's not a competition.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
28. I didn't say that
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:40 AM
Jul 2015

at all. I've been clear enough. If you decide you want to know more, go read some of the black press or go to social media. Look at elonjameswhite's twitter feed or any number of other black activists. See what they have to say about it.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
30. I'm not seeing any black folks here talk about it.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:42 AM
Jul 2015

Nor any of my coworkers or Facebook friends.

It has happened before that people on Twitter have made bullshit arguments.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
46. Why? I don't search out Tweets for any topic. But if Mr. White is speaking of Blacks in Africa, as
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 08:52 AM
Jul 2015

in the continent of Cecil, let him address the citizenry therein.

Do you think DU didn't have enough commentary on Trayvon? Or now on Sandra Bland? Etc.?

choie

(4,111 posts)
11. Yeah I'm a social worker
Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jul 2015

And know that old saw - I don't feel a bit of guilt - it's the posters' attempts to illicit guilt that I'm talking about. Christ sometimes I get so damn sick of the dynamics here.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
48. I don't think guilt is the thing we should feel.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:30 PM
Jul 2015

I do think it reflects an odd quirk of our collective human nature. Our heirarchy of compassion and affinity for animals is directly related to their size and amount of fur. Big enough and furry enough, they get named and become celebrities.

If Dr Palmer had killed an african person, there'd be a gofundme on his behalf.

It is what it is. It's odd, that's all.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
16. Please don't feel guilty, you got it right. All life is sacred.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:08 AM
Jul 2015

The less senseless taking of life, the better.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
29. Was the post made directly about you, or was more general?
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:40 AM
Jul 2015

If it was general, and the shoe doesn't fit, then perhaps it wasn't directed at you.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
31. There's been at least 3 scold threads from people getting their undies in a bunch
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jul 2015

because people are talking about the lion instead of what they want people to be talking about. Mainly attention-seeking behavior.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
39. For some, it's an outrage contest...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:33 AM
Jul 2015

...and you backed the 'wrong' horse.

And this being DU, you can't tell them to fuck off, at least not without risking a hide.

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