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question everything

(47,486 posts)
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:29 PM Jul 2015

Africa needs trophy hunting of lions - another POV

Odd as it may sound, U.S. trophy hunters play a critical role in protecting wildlife in Tanzania. The millions of dollars hunters spend to go on safari here each year help finance the game reserves, wildlife management areas and conservation efforts in our rapidly growing country.

This is why we are alarmed that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is considering listing the African lion as endangered. Doing so would make it illegal for U.S. hunters to bring their trophies home. Those hunters constitute 60 percent of our trophy-hunting market, and losing them would be disastrous to our conservation efforts. In 2011, five animal-rights and conservation groups petitioned the Fish and Wildlife Service to list the African lion as endangered, arguing that the population had fallen dangerously low because of habitat loss, poaching, commercial hunting and new diseases associated with human encroachment. “The U.S.,” their petition said, “is by far the largest importer of hunting trophies from Tanzania.”

While that is true, the lion population in Tanzania is not endangered. We have an estimated 16,800 lions, perhaps 40 percent of all lions on the continent, the biggest population in the world. Their numbers are stable here, and while our hunting system is not perfect, we have taken aggressive efforts to protect our lions.

Tanzania has regulated hunting for decades. Females and younger lions are completely protected, and the hunting of males is limited by quotas set for each hunting area in the country. We recently made it illegal to hunt male lions younger than six years old to ensure that reproductively active animals remained with their prides. And proposed amendments to our wildlife law would further crack down on the export of lions taken illegally, penalize hunting companies that violated our rules and reward those that complied.

(snip)

Of all the species found here, lions are particularly important, because they draw visitors from throughout the world — visitors who support our tourism industry and economy. Many of these visitors only take pictures. But others pay thousands of dollars to pursue lions with rifles and take home trophies from what is often a once-in-a-lifetime hunt. Those hunters spend 10 to 25 times more than regular tourists and travel to (and spend money in) remote areas rarely visited by photographic tourists.

In Tanzania, lions are hunted under a 21-day safari package. Hunters pay $9,800 in government fees for the opportunity. An average of about 200 lions are shot a year, generating almost $2 million in revenue. Money is also spent on camp fees, wages, local goods and transportation. And hunters almost always come to hunt more than one species, though the lion is often the most-coveted trophy. All told, trophy hunting generated roughly $75 million for Tanzania’s economy from 2008 to 2011.

The money helps support 26 game reserves and a growing number of wildlife management areas owned and operated by local communities, as well as the building of roads, schools, hospitals and other infrastructure — all of which are important as Tanzania continues to develop as a peaceful and thriving democracy.

(snip)

As Tanzania’s highest-ranking wildlife official, I ask on behalf of my country and all of our wildlife: Do not list the African lion as endangered. Instead, help us make the most from the revenues we generate. Help us make trophy hunting more sustainable and more valuable.

Please work with us to conserve wildlife, rather than against us, which only diminishes our capacity to protect Tanzania’s global treasures.

--------------------------------

Alexander N. Songorwa is director of wildlife for the Tanzanian Ministry of Natural Resources and Tourism. He wrote this article for the New York Times.

http://www.startribune.com/africa-needs-trophy-hunting-of-lions/198868711/

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Africa needs trophy hunting of lions - another POV (Original Post) question everything Jul 2015 OP
Trophy hunting is also a lucrative business in America, maybe American outrage over this outrage should begin there? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #1
Anyone who kills because it gives them pleasure needs serious psychiatric help. nt Zorra Jul 2015 #8
Shoot them with CAMERAS, not with guns. underahedgerow Jul 2015 #2
Unfortunately for many species..... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2015 #3
They have camera safaris JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2015 #6
Wildlife populations DO NOT need to be managed kwolf68 Jul 2015 #11
True, in an ideal world question everything Jul 2015 #13
Humans are part of nature. nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #20
Wildlife management is a valid and necessary science. alarimer Jul 2015 #22
wonder how much this guy makes from lion "hunting" nt msongs Jul 2015 #4
If people want to shoot animals on safari... DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #5
Nobody is going to pay tens of thousands of dollars EL34x4 Jul 2015 #7
No, but they may pay several thousand for a photo safari. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #9
Just sayin' part II LanternWaste Jul 2015 #16
I don't care if Tanzania loses money yeoman6987 Jul 2015 #10
That, however, is the point. Igel Jul 2015 #12
Trophy hunting revenue is only 1.8% of tourism revenues in lion range countries LanternWaste Jul 2015 #15
Have them bring a camera. Octafish Jul 2015 #14
That article is from 2013 and here's Treehugger's excellent reply... tenderfoot Jul 2015 #17
How about a compromise? Tranquilizing Safaris! maxsolomon Jul 2015 #18
I would rather we earmarked some foreign aid for conservation. Motown_Johnny Jul 2015 #19
If "trophy" hunters want to help conservation, they can donate their $$ magical thyme Jul 2015 #21

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
1. Trophy hunting is also a lucrative business in America, maybe American outrage over this outrage should begin there?
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jul 2015

Although I see the appeal in America of being outraged over a far away poor nation's exploitation of animal wildlife - it deflects the reality of the massive exploitation of wildlife by in your own backyard.

And guess who is supporting the wildlife hunter...it begins with N and ends in Evil?

America could and should lead the way for the world by cleaning up it's own backyard full of 320 million guns and countless hunting ranges and kills for pleasure.

The NRA does not want you to take the next logical step and have the justifiable outrage turn to them.

underahedgerow

(1,232 posts)
2. Shoot them with CAMERAS, not with guns.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jul 2015

Tanzania is some of the most mineral and precious stone rich real estate on the planet.

Invest in industry and growth, not in death and exploitation. There is no justification.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,370 posts)
3. Unfortunately for many species.....
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 12:46 PM
Jul 2015

Industry and growth means death and exploitation. They are inseparable.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,350 posts)
6. They have camera safaris
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 02:58 PM
Jul 2015

but they're not as lucrative.

And, the wildlife population still needs to be managed, to prevent death by starvation etc. So if expensive hunts were eliminated, the game managers would still have to reduce the population to a size that can survive on the available resources.

A hunter still needs to be responsible for selecting the target. A lion with a collar, radio, and antenna should probably not be considered an acceptable target.

kwolf68

(7,365 posts)
11. Wildlife populations DO NOT need to be managed
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jul 2015

Populations only need to be managed if:

-Humans have already fucked up the ecosystem (for example, by removing natural predators, vegetation, re-routing water flows, cutting down trees, etc)
-Management is very often nothing more than a euphemism for "hunting opportunities"

A viable ecosystem NEEDS NO management at all. Especially by humans. There is ample evidence both from pre-human times and from current times that an ecosystem left untouched will go along just fine. There will be fluctuations of prey/predator relation in addition to bottom up trophic factors (such as nutrients, etc) but the ecosystem will stabilize at various equilibrium depending on the carrying capacity of said ecosystem.

The "we must manage" predators because they will eat up all the prey is hilarious claptrap peddled by Japanese whalers, fisheries, safari operations, etc. From a scientific perspective it's pure bullshit.

The only time at all ecosystems need to be "managed" is when they've been altered to begin with, but a healthy ecosystem requires nothing from humans other than our absence.

question everything

(47,486 posts)
13. True, in an ideal world
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:57 PM
Jul 2015

but we know that rhinos and elephants are being hunted and killed for the ivory and for their genitalia that are supposed to be provide sexual vigor.

There have been talk that if such poaching would continue, the only large animals would be seen in a zoo.

Thus, we do need protected land for lions, and for apes and, in this country, pretty soon for bears.

Why, do you think, coyotes and bears invade neighborhoods in California and across the country? Because we have interfered with the natural habitats.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
22. Wildlife management is a valid and necessary science.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 05:00 PM
Jul 2015

The "tragedy of the commons" is such that there is no benefit to a single individual acting unilaterally to control their own harvest. This is why management is vital, to keep people from doing what they are so prone to do, act in their own best interests at the cost of everyone else. That paper by Garrett Hardin is required reading and should be by everyone who even comments on this issue.

No such ecosystems exist in the world that have not been at least touched by human activities.

The sale of hunting and fishing licenses and taxes on their equipment pay for the enforcement of wildlife laws, among other things. There are excise taxes on hunting and fishing equipment in the US that also pays for conservation activities. Hikers and campers and people who simply like to view wildlife pay no such extra taxes. In fact these groups have fought them for years. The last effort to put excise taxes on camping and hiking equipment, to fund parks, among other things, failed in a much friendlier Congress years ago and no way would it pass now.

In the US, we have fairly strict regulations, good enforcement, and these regulations are generally (though not universally) accepted as part of the deal.

In Africa, it may be a different story, depending on the country. Poaching is often rampant, enforcement costs a lot of money that governments may not have and there are a host of other issues besides. Mainly that when people do not have enough food, the welfare of animals is a secondary consideration at best. The trade-off may be to sell a few licenses to hunt lions or whatever in order to protect and manage the rest. I'm not saying that is the right thing to do, but it might be the only thing possible under the circumstances and it is the height of arrogance for us to tell them what they can and cannot do for themselves.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
9. No, but they may pay several thousand for a photo safari.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:17 PM
Jul 2015

In my mind, the magic is in being able to see the animals, no execution required. But I'm a photographer and not large animal killer. So I'd expect a different, less sociopathic clientele that could still pump money into local economies.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
16. Just sayin' part II
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:14 PM
Jul 2015

Most tourism in African lion range countries is non-consumptive nature tourism. Among holiday and leisure visitors, nature-based attractions are the dominant motivations for travelling to Africa. Tourism industries in lion range countries is almost entirely based on nature tourism.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
10. I don't care if Tanzania loses money
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:17 PM
Jul 2015

Saving the lions are more important. Find another way to make money or cut back. Save the lions!

Igel

(35,320 posts)
12. That, however, is the point.
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 03:43 PM
Jul 2015

The fees from the safaris provide money for the preserves that save the lions.

Even then, many of the preserves don't do what they want and a lot of wildlife each year is killed or dies.

The reason for this isn't just or even "so much" poaching, as the need of the locals to have more land for housing, grazing, and agriculture. *That* is more responsible for killing off lions than big game hunters. We get upset over those animals we see, know about, find cute, and consider symbols. The rest--meh.

But it's really just the trolleybush problem: We feel responsible for the death of a single lion, but not the 10 lions that would die by saving that one lion. (The trolleybus problem goes like this: You can see that if a trolleybus continues on its path it will kill 10 people. You can push somebody in such a way that the trolley will be rerouted and save those 10, but that one person will die as a result. Do you push or not? People thinking quickly will tend to say, "Let the other 10, I'm not going to murder anybody." Those who think slowly will tend to say, "Yes, I will kill one to save 10." A variant on the problem gives you control over the lever, but if you pull it to save the 10 the trolley gets rerouted to kill the 1.)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
15. Trophy hunting revenue is only 1.8% of tourism revenues in lion range countries
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:13 PM
Jul 2015

"The fees from the safaris provide money for the preserves that save the lions. ..."

Trophy hunting advocates present the industry as large, citing figures such as $200m in annual revenue. But in the context of national economies, the industry is tiny, contributing at best a fraction of a percent of GDP. Nature based tourism does play a significant role in national development, but trophy hunting is insignificant. Across the investigated countries, trophy hunting revenue was only 1.8% of tourism revenues. Most tourism in African lion range countries is non-consumptive nature tourism. Among holiday and leisure visitors, nature-based attractions are the dominant motivations for travelling to Africa. Tourism industries in lion range countries is almost entirely based on nature tourism (Scholes and Biggs 2004).

IFAW Report, 2013

tenderfoot

(8,437 posts)
17. That article is from 2013 and here's Treehugger's excellent reply...
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:17 PM
Jul 2015
http://www.treehugger.com/endangered-species/killing-lions-protect-them-does-it-make-sense.html

"We had to destroy that village to save it"

What should we think about that line of reasoning? On one hand, sometimes you have to break some eggs to make an omelette, and maybe this is the price to pay to finance conservation efforts... But on the other, we have to be careful about false dichotomies. There are other choices. We don't necessarily need wealthy people to fly around the world just so they can shoot top predators from afar and then feel manly when they off show the carcass to their friends (I mean, there's not much merit in killing a lion with what is basically a sniper rifle -- try knife fighting one and then you can brag).
I wish conservation efforts could be funded by regular tourism, photographic safaris, maybe some environmental/wildlife NGOs or a small royalty on natural resources, something like that. But I also won't kid myself that the situation is simple and that the Tanzanian government has lots of resources available (though that has been getting better lately). Maybe these types of safaris can be progressively phased out as other sources of revenue are found? Note that in my opinion there's a difference between a local hunter who then eats what he or she killed and a trophy hunter who flies to the other side of the planet to kill just for fun.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
18. How about a compromise? Tranquilizing Safaris!
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:18 PM
Jul 2015

You get to shoot them with a gun or whatever, pose with them, stick your head in their mouths, but you don't get to behead and skin them.

They'd have every lion in Africa radio collared in 10 years and herdsmen would be able to track every pride to preserve their livestock.

Also: $25 million a year is good I guess, but extinction is permanent. What will you sell then, Mr. Songorwa?

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
21. If "trophy" hunters want to help conservation, they can donate their $$
Thu Jul 30, 2015, 04:31 PM
Jul 2015

Stick to shooting with cameras. Period.

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