When the fight for $15 threads started on FB, there were always angry EMTs saying that that is how much they make and didn't feel servers should make as much. Fuck! I think it is shocking that someone working in emergency services is making under $30hr. Honestly, I would have guessed $50hr. I will march and sign stuff to raise that shit higher.

i was a volunteer emt myself many moons ago. there are psychic rewards in directly helping people in an emergency that you just don't get in many other jobs.

unfortunately, broadly speaking, this can put a damper on wages for a paid staff, as a town can threaten to go to an all-volunteer squad.

per diem differential either.

It's infuriating to go through so much work and expense for the schooling, only to be paid enough to barely get by and not even pay off the student loans.

I support the $15/hr minimum wage because I know that will force them to raise my salary to something that makes the effort worthwhile. Actually it will be too late for me, but still it will help those behind me.

It had benefits, but it also required a Masters degree and highly specialized experience. That's pretty much the going rate. They want you to know everything, and won't pay you. Lately, they seem to be hiring their former grad students, leaving the rest of us fucked, since such jobs are exceedingly rare these days.

that's what happens when we compete with countries that pay for their students' educations.

A lot of the time, the PIs can't pay because they only have so much money with which to do their research. This was a university position. You rarely even see Masters-level research jobs any more, at least in my field. Most of the work gets done by grad students (really cheap labor), and usually when a permanent position opens up, they fill it with one of their former students, which is what I suspect happened with this job. Or, they gave it to someone with a PhD. There's a glut of those, and what used to be a job for someone with a Masters degree often gets filled by someone with a doctorate. People wring their hands over the fact that kids aren't going into the sciences, so they encourage them to do so. Yet, they don't bother to notice that there are no jobs for them when they get out, because research dollars have been slashed, as have all the government agencies who hire scientists. It's really fucked up.

these services cost. They rip off the consumer as well as the employees.

Someone is stealing the money from the till.

But they DO make a lot less when they're not in the plane

I don't think starting pay could have been that low back in the day--these guys made bank and have a ton of investments.

Deregulation is usually a code for lowering everyone's pay.

wage scale came into being as some unions ensured their older workers got more and then the various companies hired the young people at low wages and no benefits. Or laid off their older workers and told them if they wanted to work they had to take the lower scale with no benefits or be unemployed. I'm talking about more than one industry.

As I said, airline pilots once had the advantage of flight training through the military and they were able with their unions to get very good working conditions and retirements. The younger ones, no.

Wonder why????

they might be making $35k a year. You don't make the big bucks until you move up.

In Houston, you have to be a firefighter for a few years before you can be a paramedic. Firefighter cadets get $27K. Once they pass all their evaluations, they make $42K as a first year firefighter. There's also opportunity to work overtime and their schedule makes it easy to have a side job if they wish.

The pay for an EMT with no training, in a small town, is pretty low, but if you look at it as on the job training, the pay is pretty good. If they stay in it and make it a career, the retirement benefits are pretty generous. After 30 years, they retire with 80% of their pay. It can be more if they made extra contributions to their pension (kind of like contributing to a 401K).

It's $3k out here in CA to just get you to the hospital. I just can't imagine jobs where people and emergencies are in the balance being so low.

was $1K.

The fire department and EMTs were volunteers where I once lived. Of course it was off the beaten track and you had to have your own well, etc.

And you had to do EVERYTHING yourself, no one would come out there for hire. There were no city officials, etc. The county sheriff was useless, didn't enforce any laws, animal cruelty, theft, etc.

No deliveries except by the post office - to the post office and the rural boxes. Only person would come out was the propane man. Had to go fifty miles to get gas, food, or get the kids to schools, etc. My property taxes were a dollar an acre each year. Texas also has exemptions for elderly, disabled and homestead.

The fire truck and ambulance was paid from from a dinner and raffle every year. Real old school place, some good or very bad.

your pay is low so others should be paid lower? What about demanding higher pay for yourself instead? The floor should be set at a certain amount.

There is nothing worse than the status argument of managers whining, "then the staff will be making as much as me!" If money is supposed to use to describe grades of status, perhaps the gradations can't be that extreme for business to work efficiently. Perhaps it's those very attempted extremes in gradation which contributed to inequality in the first place. Perhaps there are other ways to elaborate on differences in status. One thing is for sure - CEOs should not be making thousands of times as the lowest employee.

They could double those salaries and it would be nothing but a rounding error on the fee for an ambulance.

Of course, there are probably times when they aren't busy and are basically "on call" at the station.
But I'm surprised.

Emergency workers make less than $15.00.

Thanks for sharing!

EMTs should be making a lot more than $15 an hour for what they do. That's what should have been the takeaway from all of this. Not that it was one group vs. another. It's sad how we play into their hands so easily.

Somebody who keeps you alive can barely afford to keep their own family alive? Yet Wall Street parasites make millions? What is wrong with this world? Man, I may start rooting for a runaway greenhouse effect.

Where I used to work, some of the housekeeping and groundskeeping staff were off duty firemen and EMTs. One of the EMTs said he only made around $20K /year. I don't think the firefighters got paid much more than that.

for EMTs? Or most any job, for that matter? Please tell me you are all just venting, but really understand the economic principle.

Please?

Explain to me why an ALS ambulance ride costs somewhere north of $1000 dollars and yet the crew working that ambulance make less than 40/hr combined.

To not knowing a basic tenant of economics.

It's because there are people willing to do that work for that wage. Or they wouldn't.

"It's because there are people willing to do that work for that wage. Or they wouldn't."

It's because there are people who have to do that work for that wage. Or they wouldn't. And be even worse off.

You make it sound like we have a real choice. Like we, the 99% have a say in the matter. That the "game" (I really hate it when daily struggles to stay afloat are referred to as a game) isn't rigged. That wages have been stagnant for decades. That we still have a manufacturing base.

No, I don't want to do what I do for what I am paid as it is only $2.00 more per hour than what I was paid in the same industry in 1980. But I have to.

I'm willing to work as a paramedic for free, but I NEED an income. So I choose to work at a hospital where the wages are about 4/hr more than an an ambulance.
Go to a testing event for a larger fire dept. sometime. The reason there are literally thousands of people applying for a dozen jobs isn't just about prestige. It's usually the only EMS gig that can pay your rent and feed your family.
Us EMS workers love our career, but the turnover is high because of high stress, long shifts, and low pay.

Your pedantic attitude was too much for my inner spelling/grammar nazi.

I hate it when I make mistakes like that and I appreciate them being pointed out. It will make me be more careful in the future. It didn't look quite right when I first typed it and the auto-correct re-did it, but I was in too much of a hurry to go back and check the spelling. I will try to do better.

Like most of what learns in Econ 101. The real world doesn't plot neatly on a XY graph. There are many, many variables and it's not as simple as you suggest. Not even close.

If it were that simple, nobody would have a job as an economist or econometrician.

Nice user name.

It's because in a capitalist system there must be constant
'progess', aka increasing profitability, and the first place to go for that is to suppress workers' wages.

Profit is theft from the value of workers' labor.

This is a basic tenet of capitalist economics.

The idea that workers inherently have a choice, and that they/we are choosing to work for less than a living wage, makes no sense, it is worse than a myth, it is a lie.

who feel like they aren't paid enough by their employer, who feel that their employer is stealing value from their labor, just refuse to work for such employers and just work for themselves? Problem solved.

Why do they continue to work for someone stealing from them? Why don't all EMTs work as independent businessmen? Then they would receive the full value of their labor, would they not?

We are certified, but not licensed. We work under the umbrella of our medical director's license. Also, most 911 systems are operated by the local government. Cities will contract out EMS responsibilities to an ambulance service if their local fire department doesn't provide the service. I wouldn't want my 911 call to go out like an Uber alert.

some capital investment and organization? Damn capitalists.

I hope you're a college freshman.

Because if you are a grown adult, such a simplistic worldview is something to remedy, not make boastful commentary about.

nope, not a college freshman. Retired. Was in college a long time ago. Degree in electrical engineering and MBA in Finance.

Some things are still pretty simple.

is that you have the integrity to disabuse yourself of such simplistic notions.

What a hoot! You ridicule someone for "not knowing a basic tenant of economics."

Tenet | Definition of tenet by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tenetCached

Full Definition of TENET : a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially : one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or ...



Tenant | Definition of tenant by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tenantCached

Definition of TENANT for Kids: to hold or live in as a renter . Learn More About TENANT. Thesaurus: All synonyms and antonyms for "tenant"

As I said to the poster above, I always appreciate it being called to my attention and I will try not to make that same mistake in the future. I will endeavour to keep a closer eye on the auto-correct feature.

Everyone makes mistakes. It was your dismissive attitude which was offensive.

Thank you very much.

for bad attitude.

that are having the value of their labor "stolen" actually need some capital investment from a "capitalist" in order to escape their bondage to an employer? And there is also some risk involved? Mercy.

So they don't like the pay of the jobs they have, and they don't have the capital to work for themselves? They don't have a guarantee of success? They ought to be really pissed off.

Thanks, I understand now.

Most people who start businesses do so with family money. Money obtained from the labor of others. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/rich-people-raise-kids-family-wealth/399809/

People who don't like the pay and are at a job at a company that has put most of the other businesses out of business, do things to get more money from the boss. Form unions and strike for higher pay. That's Labor 101.

especially this part:

You know, the subject of the OP? They are doing it more.

But whether or not $15 is a "living wage" depends on where one lives. In most of Kansas there are A LOT of talented people making $15. This is why there will not be a $15 min wage any time soon....because in much of the country $10 will provide a better standard than $15 will in CA, NY, etc. Minimum wage will always be worthless in places it is needed most until it is scaled to a cost of living index.

is thinking that if EMTs make less than $15/hour, then there's no way fast food workers should get that amount. What is truly appalling is how wages have been held down for so very many workers and all the while upper management gets hefty raises.

The $15/hour is a realistic minimum wage for everyone. It will take years to phase that amount in, but meanwhile there should be enormous pressure to bring down the maximum wage.

People are using the term EMT and Paramedic interchangeably a lot here- but they typically represent two very different skill levels.

There are in most states 4 main levels of medical responders- First Responder or Medical Responder, EMT-Basic, EMT-Ingermediate, and EMT-Paramedic.

There is very little difference between your First Responder level and EMT-B in most cases. It takes around 150-200 classroom hours and then around 40-50 hours in the field as a student on an ambulance and that's it. There are places that offer an accelerated EMT-B where you go from start to National Registered EMT-B in 3 weeks.

We did First Responder as part of the Basic Law Enforcement Training (NC's version of an "academy&quot and it was the same class work, just without the ambulance ride time.

An EMT-B will do basic first aid, bandage you, and drive you to the hospital. No meds, no reading a cardiac monitor, no IV's.

A Parameidic had passed through both EMT-I and the Paramedic courses with about 2-2-5 more years of classes and a much harder certification and can read a cardiac monitor, administer IV's and drugs, intubate and much more. In most states they can do a lot of things an RN is not allowed to and many ER's keep them on staff for that reason.

So when talking wages you have to be specific as to the job title.

And paramedics in most every state still make more tha cops working the same locations- if paramedic pay worries you about what kind of service you may get....

(just as a point of fact)

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

all day, everyday for 8 an hour and it was a raise for them.

I figured the people working must be making good money.. certainly not $15 an hour. Their union (if they even have one) must suck.

That should be posted to every social media site. Daily.

What he says is so obvious to so many of us, why are so many people blind to the truth?