No one has to bow down to anyone else: if you are truly working for justice and equality.

I read in another comment that they may have actually been referring to themselves bowing down to the God Bernie, since the crowd (which they regarded as racist) was making such a fuss. In which case this whole "bow down Bernie" line has just been about generating outrage against BLM for nothing.

This incident finally gave me the insight that our criticisms of BLM are usually invalid because BLM isn't part of a political party mechanism. They don't serve the purpose of getting anyone elected. They are an issue-oriented group, and they use tactics that pursue their issue, end of story.

While we are busy trying to lecture them, they are also rendering their judgment on us:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1410719/-Open-letter-to-progressives-You-re-doing-it-wrong-and-it-ll-cost-the-Democratic-Party

Note the percentage of black women voters vs. white women voters. Kind of gives you pause as to who the important "allies" are.

I'm a Bernie supporter, but I have to say, IMHO, Bernie supporters have really been blowing it over the past couple of days. And they seem to be grasping around for further fake reasons to blow it some more.

They claim they wanted to hold Sanders accountable, this after he had already added a racism and racial justice plank. But inadvertantly, their actions, though stupid, did expose some of the ugliness they were talking about. On another note, Sanders was there to speak about SS and Medicaid...two benefits that are important to black lives also.

after Netroots Nation, BLM put the candidates on notice to expect to be disrupted anywhere and everywhere. As much as Bernie wants to be a man of the people, he really needed better security and not to let those women take the stage in the first place. Once those women got the stage, I think they were so surprised they got away with it that they didn't know what to do with having a National spotlight, so they went on and on and on: they didn't want to give it up now that they had it.

Sanders did not include his racial justice plank until after Seattle. yeah...i think you are right: they clearly did not know what to do or say, and i think that's fair assessment. However, in the interview i saw, Marissa came off as a throwback from the 70s...and not a very good one, at that. I just hope everyone stops raging, and starts building coalitions. While I completely understand the rage, we have a unique opportunity...if we can stop expecting one side or another to "bow down." As I have said before: Bernie Sanders represents the best opportunity we have to achieve the goals of racial and economic justice. Even if that means forcing Clinton to act, if she is the nominee.

BLM is just doesn't want to be used as a tool for achieving the goal of his election even if they would be "good allies".

They want to be courted for their vote. Our initial instinct may be to see them as prima donnas for having to *ask* to be courted: this is the sort of thing that usually goes unsaid. But their point is that statistically they deserve to be courted, and we can take it or leave it.

I understand the anger, but I do not understand the need to disrupt an ally who was there to speak about an issue that affects black lives also. Especially since he listened and acted after the Netroots action. I never cared for black nationalists in the 70s and 80s, nor do I care for them now. I cannot believe that I am writing this, but not all white people are racists, nor do they all support white supremacy. And those two activists, in particular do not grasp that. They just seem really immature and naive to me. To reiterate: I do not think alienating potential allies is the best strategy to get your point across. I'd like them to show up at a Ben Carson event.

And she had white allies helping her at the disruption. So she wasn't calling all white people racist or white supremacists. She was specifically calling the "liberals" of Seattle who claimed to be running a progressive city, but who continued to ignore a number of discriminatory features of their policies "white supremacist liberals".

As to whether the people in the audience or the people who want to get Bernie Sanders elected are considered "allies" or not - this is something BLM seems to be continually questioning/challenging. They are doing what they are doing: we can opine whether it "works" or not, but their agenda is not to get Bernie Sanders, or any other candidate elected - it is to achieve a list of certain non-negotiable short-term goals.

These tactics are very much like the (non-MLK) Civil Rights Movement as conducted by youth. And the same time period also included a lot of outright rioting such as Watts, and a lot of comfortable middle class people advising on what will not work, how to properly organize, and how insiders negotiate. This is a very interesting rerun of history.

and not only did she repeat the meme that sanders has a class-based approach to racism, a proven lie, she also came across as very, extremely naive. racism exists...even in seattle, who knew? file that one under, no shit sherlock. i will not give her another moment of my time, except as a study in fanaticism: from 21st century teabagger to 20th century black nationalist. that is quite the leap. i hope she continues to learn and grow...but her 15 minutes from me are over.

I think her anarchist ideas are B.S.

But I also don't think people have to lie about Marissa or BLM to disagree with what she did. Manufacturing phony outrage will only give the GOP exactly what it wants: a wedge issue that peels off some of the black vote from the Democratic party. For Bernie voters it's also a gift to the Hillary campaign, who will embrace the BLM that we have rejected as an "ally". They've been saying Hillary is the home for the "social" all along while Bernie voters now like reactionary and "the economic" now looks looks like racist white populism. Well-played. Marissa is "sipping on white tears" right now.

and imho, her mission was accomplished: shit-stirring. as i said, i don't want to give the nihilism any more time. sure there is a lot of raging going on, and lot of crazy, irrational shit is being said, but people of goodwill will continue to focus on the ultimate goal. thanks for the conversation

They said exactly what they meant. This and the 4.5 (?!) minutes of silence was all about exercising control of "white liberal supremacists."

I apologize. I don't use twitter, and I misunderstood that. They started using that hashtag after the disruption? Does anyone use it besides Marissa?

PRESS RELEASE: Black Lives Matter Seattle ‪#?BowDownBernie‬ Action

MEDIA CONTACTS: Marissa Johnson blacklivesmatterseattle@gmail.com

https://outsideagitators206.org/blog/seattle-says-bowdownbernie/

I wonder if that name of their "operation' was chosen before the disruption. It kind of reminds me of Bush repeatedly choosing an offensive name for his military actions in the Middle East. Remember operations "Infinite Justice"? (Only Allah can perform Infinite justice, etc.).

Marissa referred to Bernie as both a God and an "idol" of the crowd in her radio interview. Given her religious views, I'm still leery of taking this directly to an anti-Semitic framework (though it may be one in an unconscious way - especially is she is importing ideas from Farrakhan). Given her youth, I think it's possibly more of an F- You to Authority and the fact she identifies The Rules and the entire White Crowd with a White Supremacist Superstructure. That structure oppresses her and wants her to bow before it: the name of her op is to get the "God" of that structure to bow instead.

Extremely youthful hubris. If we start looking at it in terms of hubris instead of a revival of Nazism, I think we can move on. I'm not saying that this hubris itself can't be dangerous and can't escalate (re: Baltimore riots starting with vague threat of a "Purge&quot , but we really have to start looking at this situation for what it is instead of trying to shoehorn it into the position we want it to be in, which - BLM is trying to point out to us - a practice of White Supremacist Society.

a f%$k you than an antisemitic thing. I'm 38 & while I get the whole Jewish/Nazi thing I definitely don't get it here or at all with Sanders. All I see is an old white guy.

the FB page was posted 24 hours before this, and now some of the folks in it are calling it a false FB page, They know that this did not play as intended, but cannot fully reject it.

It is an odd problem with flat movements.

hence the crowd wasn't necessarily Bernie Sanders supporters. This was a rally created by various organizations who wanted to recognize Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. You cannot conflate the two separate entities here. Bernie was just a guest. So was a BLM representative who spoke to the crowd before Bernie. Using your logic, all of those in the crowd were BLM supporters.

Marissa was addressing her "white supremacist liberal" remarks to the City of Seattle - which the crowd did represent. They chose to disrupt Bernie because that was the National spotlight.

And it's chiefly the Bernie supporters who are going wild on the Internet aftermath now, which is why BLM dismissive criticism is being directed at them. For every "we don't like the BLM anymore remark we generate", we're getting a "I'm not going to vote for Bernie" remark back. Way to go!

(and a few locally), next time a march is called, white progressive middle class kids will stay home. And that is not a good thing when trying to pressure oh... your local city council

Us the nothing has changed meme when the next corporate candidate is elected. No one has answered why these urgent issues are not being brought up with people who can do something about it now. Former SOS has voiced support for the prison industrial complex time and again.

Lives are at stake. The closest I have ever come to the kind of risks that People of Color face is not having access to healthcare and needing it badly. Yet, during most of my life there has been a law that requires most health facilities to treat me if there is any risk to my life. That was enacted by Reagan. Bush 1 signed the ADA and W signed the amendments. I'm glad they did. There is a saying among some of us about issue oriented advocacy. "No permanent friends, no permanent enemies."

I see no reality where I would never support any republican, but I would be very happy if one made a sincere effort to pass a single payer plan.
I can see how that could also be the case with #BLM. Politicians are not going to address what is going on unless there is public demand. Bernie started giving it more attention after Seattle. Now Clinton and O'Malley will be publicly pushed to do the same, and hopefully, it will ripple down to local primaries and into general elections for POTUS, congress, state and city government.... Wouldn't it also be appropriate for school boards to be talking about it?

Democrats will be far better off in November, 2016 if we push the candidates to build the coalition we've had in the past.

Seattle will be a blip, unless all that comes out of it is blame, mistrust, discord.

I would love that Marrisa Johnson descibes what she means to imply by BOWDOWN.I am thinking it could mean_ no Justice no peace_ but until she descibes it I think it is a deplorable attack ,upon Senator. Sanders.Furthermore ,I am freaked out about Sanders saftey after this.FYI not because of scarey black ,or angry black people(added because of the race baiting )but his saftey from the powers that be.

-the Social Security and Medicare event at Westlake WAS NOT A SANDERS EVENT!! It was planned months ago, before Sanders even declared, and would have gone on with the other speakers had Sanders not agreed to attend. There were two members of the coalition on stage at the time of the BLM demonstration, and they agreed to hand over the mic. Sanders stayed out of the decision, as was appropriate. The boobirds should have respected that decision.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/128036388


http://signforgood.com/Happy80thSocialSecurity/?code=CCCA

and plenty of it is, "oh FFS, White people are allowed to have opinions too, they'll just be taken differently because of radically-different life experience"

most of the pro-OA types are the same diehards who said people wanted Glass-Steagall back or opposed the Afghan surge because they were racists

I read the whole thing, very honest thinking and spot on. Thanks for posting it.

Those words by Tom Petty may infuriate some, but All people should be accorded that dignity, and expect hard resistance when it isn't.

Unless orders were sent to Seattle from national BLM leaders to shut Bernie down because he wasn’t listening to them at the negotiating table at which all of their previous actions had given them priority, then there was nothing strategic about the actions on Saturday.

All my understanding of the movement is that it is a flat, decentralized movement that doesn't have central leaders who can "send down orders".

If I am wrong, who would be sending down these orders?

and I am glad to see it, leave... the twitter sphere, this hot discussion started the same day on the twitter, and it has been rather hot.

Let's just say, not everybody approves, as some here have tried to portray, in the African American scene.

K&R!