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pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 06:30 PM Aug 2015

Does anyone know why, in the St. Paul's prep school rape case, the question

of whether or not the girl consented (she testified she said no, but the defense claims otherwise) is even an issue?

She was a 15 year-old freshman and the age of consent in Connecticut is 16. Owen Labrie, a senior at the time of the alleged rape, is three years older, and the law says you can't have sex with someone more than 2 years younger if that person is under 16.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/us/st-paul-school-rape-case-owen-labrie.html

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Does anyone know why, in the St. Paul's prep school rape case, the question (Original Post) pnwmom Aug 2015 OP
Wouldn't not having consent be an added charge to the statutory rape charge? I'd think so. bettyellen Aug 2015 #1
Yes, he is facing additional charges because prosecution is alleging that the 15 year old didn't LisaL Aug 2015 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #7
He's 19 now. Where have you seen his age at the time? How do you know I'm wrong? pnwmom Aug 2015 #19
To create confusion in the jury's minds. Brickbat Aug 2015 #3
That's just not accurate. LisaL Aug 2015 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #8
What is incorrect? pnwmom Aug 2015 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #11
He is now 19. The alleged rape was a year ago, meaning he was 18, when girl was 15. LisaL Aug 2015 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #17
What does more than 3 years means to you? LisaL Aug 2015 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #31
Are you serious. LisaL Aug 2015 #40
You're right jberryhill Aug 2015 #41
But 3 years and 1 day is "more than" 3 years. How do you know he isn't more than 3 years older? pnwmom Aug 2015 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #33
No, that's not called math. We use the term "18 year old" to be anyone who is at least pnwmom Aug 2015 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #39
Person A: June 1, 1997. Person B: June 2, 2000. Person A is three years plus one day older, pnwmom Aug 2015 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #50
He was 18, the girl was 15. LisaL Aug 2015 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #13
Well, if that's 3 years and 1 day, presumably that is going to count as more than 3 years. LisaL Aug 2015 #16
18-15=3 jberryhill Aug 2015 #18
That's assuming they were born on the same day 3 years apart. LisaL Aug 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #27
lol woolldog Aug 2015 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #34
Person A: August 1, 2000 Person B: August 2, 2003. Person A is 3 years and 1 day older. pnwmom Aug 2015 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #49
So, basically, you've been using circular reasoning. pnwmom Aug 2015 #51
ROFL! jberryhill Aug 2015 #52
K&R smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #6
She was 15 and he was 18. Which makes it 3 year difference. LisaL Aug 2015 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #24
He is 19 now, a year later. She is 16 now, a year later. It seems likely that there is a 3 year age pnwmom Aug 2015 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #23
What does it mean to you? LisaL Aug 2015 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #28
Do the math. If person A was born on January 1, 2002 pnwmom Aug 2015 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #29
Are you for real? LisaL Aug 2015 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #44
If he was 18 and 2 months old, and she was 15 and 1 month old, then he was more than 3 years older pnwmom Aug 2015 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #45
I don't think that's the case petronius Aug 2015 #43
But he is charged with multiple charges. LisaL Aug 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Aug 2015 #30
Bad math aside, St. Paul's School is in NH, not CT geek_sabre Aug 2015 #46
THANK YOU for the simple and no doubt correct answer! pnwmom Aug 2015 #48
It's not exactly correct. LisaL Aug 2015 #54
Lol jberryhill Aug 2015 #53

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
2. Yes, he is facing additional charges because prosecution is alleging that the 15 year old didn't
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 07:25 PM
Aug 2015

consent.

Response to bettyellen (Reply #1)

Response to LisaL (Reply #4)

Response to pnwmom (Reply #9)

Response to LisaL (Reply #14)

Response to LisaL (Reply #20)

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
40. Are you serious.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:19 PM
Aug 2015

Lets say today is someone's birthday and that someone turned 15. Lets say another person turned 18 years old yesterday.
So that's one year and 1 day difference between these two people. So what are you talking about?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
41. You're right
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:21 PM
Aug 2015

It would seem to be, given that consent is the central issue in the case, that they are not more than three years apart.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #21)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
38. No, that's not called math. We use the term "18 year old" to be anyone who is at least
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:18 PM
Aug 2015

18 years old but not yet 19 years old.

If someone is celebrating her 15th birthday, then a person who is 3 years and 1 day older, celebrated his 18th birthday one day earlier.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #38)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
47. Person A: June 1, 1997. Person B: June 2, 2000. Person A is three years plus one day older,
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:25 PM
Aug 2015

even though person A would be loosely said to be 18 now, and person B would be loosely said to be 15 now.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #47)

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
10. He was 18, the girl was 15.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 07:48 PM
Aug 2015

That appears to be 3 year difference, which should qualify for statutory rape (if barely).

Response to LisaL (Reply #10)

Response to LisaL (Reply #22)

Response to woolldog (Reply #32)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
42. Person A: August 1, 2000 Person B: August 2, 2003. Person A is 3 years and 1 day older.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:21 PM
Aug 2015

This is true in fact and mathematically speaking.

Apparently the CT law must have some its own special math.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #42)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
51. So, basically, you've been using circular reasoning.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:28 PM
Aug 2015

Fortunately, someone else was able to provide a better answer.

Response to pnwmom (Original post)

Response to LisaL (Reply #12)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
15. He is 19 now, a year later. She is 16 now, a year later. It seems likely that there is a 3 year age
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 07:53 PM
Aug 2015

difference, but I haven't seen the issue addressed anywhere and I was wondering if anyone else had.

The law seems clear that if he is 3+ years older then he'd be guilty of at least statutory rape.

Response to pnwmom (Reply #15)

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
26. What does it mean to you?
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 07:56 PM
Aug 2015

Anything more than exactly 3 years would be more than 3 years. So 3 years and 1 day is more than 3 years.

Response to LisaL (Reply #26)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
35. Do the math. If person A was born on January 1, 2002
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:12 PM
Aug 2015

and person B was born on January 2, 2005, then person A is three years and 1 day older. Even though, roughly speaking, person A is 13 and person B is 10.

Are you saying the law isn't mathematically precise?

Response to LisaL (Reply #26)

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
36. Are you for real?
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:14 PM
Aug 2015

I don't know their exact birthdays, but she could have been 15 years and 1 months and he could have been 18 years and 2 months (for example). Which would make their age difference 3 years and 1 month (which is more than 3 years).

Response to LisaL (Reply #36)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
37. If he was 18 and 2 months old, and she was 15 and 1 month old, then he was more than 3 years older
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:14 PM
Aug 2015

by the normal calendar.

You acknowledge that there could be LESS than 3 years between them but insist there couldn't be more than three years.

Why? Does the law use some special calendar?

Response to pnwmom (Reply #37)

petronius

(26,603 posts)
43. I don't think that's the case
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:21 PM
Aug 2015

If Person A is 3.5 years old, we'd say he was '3', right? So if Person B is born when A is 3.5, we'd call their ages 3 and 0. One year later, Person A will be 4.5 (i.e., '4') and B will be 1. Three years different in typical useage, but really more than three on the dot.

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
25. But he is charged with multiple charges.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 07:55 PM
Aug 2015

The state couldn't charge him with those if they were not alleging the 15 year old didn't consent.

Response to LisaL (Reply #25)

geek_sabre

(731 posts)
46. Bad math aside, St. Paul's School is in NH, not CT
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:25 PM
Aug 2015

The so-called "romeo and Juliet" exemption to statutory rape law in NH is as long as one party is older than 13, the second party can be up to 5 years older.

If this occurred at the school, then NH law would apply. This would make consent relevant to the defense's case.


18-15=3 < 5 therefore, not illegal (if consentual)

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
48. THANK YOU for the simple and no doubt correct answer!
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:26 PM
Aug 2015

This is what I was hoping for and look how many posts it took to get a sensible answer.

Somehow, I saw CT in some article or other and it stuck in my mind. Incorrectly.

LisaL

(44,974 posts)
54. It's not exactly correct.
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 09:49 PM
Aug 2015

It would be a misdemeanor in NH for an 18 year old to have sex with a 15 year old.

"For example, a 17-year-old who engages in consensual fondling with a 14-year-old has not committed a crime in New Hampshire. Engaging in consensual sex with a 15-year-old is a felony if the defendant is 27 years old, but only a misdemeanor if the defendant is 18 years old.

(N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 632-A:4.)"


http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/new-hampshire-statutory-rape-laws.htm
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