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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:13 PM Aug 2015

history is littered with strongmen nobody took seriously until it was too late.

If a person feels as if this country isn’t what it used to be, that they’ve lost their place, that their future isn’t promising, Donald Trump is telling them right up front that foreigners are to blame. It isn’t the government being unwilling to collect taxes from people like Donald Trump so we can build infrastructure — we’re rebuilding China instead of our own country. It isn’t that we spend vast sums of money to maintain the world’s only superpower military, it’s that people from other countries are stealing us blind. And Trump will fight all these foreigners to take our country back from them wherever they are.

...

It’s easy to dismiss Trump’s ramblings as the words of a kook. But he’s tapping into the rage and frustration many Americans feel when our country is exposed as being imperfect. These Republicans were shamed by their exalted leadership’s debacle in Iraq and believe that American exceptionalism is no longer respected around the world — and they are no longer respected here at home. Trump is a winner and I think this is fundamentally what attracts them to him:

I will be fighting and I will win because I’m somebody that wins. We are in very sad shape as a country and you know why that is? We’re more concerned about political correctness than we are about victory, than we are about winning. We are not going to be so politically correct anymore, we are going to get things done.

But his dark, authoritarian message of intolerance and hate is likely making it difficult for him, or any Republican, to win a national election, particularly since all the other candidates feel compelled to follow his lead. (Those who challenged him, like Perry and Paul, are sinking like a stone in the polls.) And while Trump’s fans may want to blame foreigners for all their troubles, most Americans know that their troubles can be traced to some powerful people right here at home. Powerful people like Donald Trump.

Still, history is littered with strongmen nobody took seriously until it was too late. When someone like Trump captures the imagination of millions of people it’s important to pay attention to what he’s saying. For all his ranting, you’ll notice that the one thing Trump never mentions is the constitution.

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/21/donald_trumps_campaign_of_terror_how_a_billionaire_channeled_his_authoritarian_rage_and_soared_to_the_top_of_the_polls/
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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history is littered with strongmen nobody took seriously until it was too late. (Original Post) phantom power Aug 2015 OP
For one thing, the media should stop giving him free air time around the clock. nt ladjf Aug 2015 #1
Exactly! And I bet that is part of his plan, get in the media non-stop with little investment by him. RKP5637 Aug 2015 #3
What else are they going to show? jeff47 Aug 2015 #12
Media is owned by corporations and there is nothing they would like jwirr Aug 2015 #19
I don't see how they would profit from that. ladjf Aug 2015 #21
Well to begin with history - the corportions in Italy and Germany made jwirr Aug 2015 #23
Yep! I was just mentioning that to someone this morning, any taking Trump lightly are not RKP5637 Aug 2015 #2
yes, I think that the same psychological chords are being struck renegade000 Aug 2015 #6
Except America worships JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #26
Yes. Mussolini dissolved Italy' parliament and replaced it with a business council. A major fascist Hortensis Aug 2015 #28
"Make America Great Again" moondust Aug 2015 #4
On refection, yes it is. hifiguy Aug 2015 #10
Not just a little bit like the nationalism of WWII Germany. Just like it. jwirr Aug 2015 #20
He sounds just like the RW nationalists in Europe today. They all blame immigrants and pampango Aug 2015 #27
Like Hitler, Mussolini, Napolean? realFedUp Aug 2015 #5
He sounds more and more like Mussolini... JCMach1 Aug 2015 #7
Hubby and I put the sound off in a video a month ago nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #9
I think that is the right historical comparison. hifiguy Aug 2015 #11
yep... dhill926 Aug 2015 #14
Allow me to shed some light on the subject. KamaAina Aug 2015 #17
Which is why I call him Il Donald eom Maeve Aug 2015 #24
At RSD we are taking Trump (and Sanders) very seriously nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #8
Foreigners ARE to blame !!! benld74 Aug 2015 #13
Of course it's the rich who are to blame, not the foreigners dreamnightwind Aug 2015 #15
We should be calling MSNBC the trump network kimbutgar Aug 2015 #16
Also flash-in-the-pan attention seekers who have no chance of getting elected oberliner Aug 2015 #18
The corollary is also true... history is replete with buffoonish and ineffectual characters LanternWaste Aug 2015 #22
Sneak preview of tonight's stadium rally: moondust Aug 2015 #25
To quote Molly Ivins on Krazy Uncle Pat Buchanan hifiguy Aug 2015 #30
The Mussolini resemblance is intriguing. lovemydog Aug 2015 #29
Well, gee, thanks for that nightmare. hunter Aug 2015 #31
Exactly, phantom power. Cha Aug 2015 #32
Detlefk o.p. phantom JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #33
Remember "The Lord of the Flies"? CTyankee Aug 2015 #34
This is an interesting line: LWolf Aug 2015 #35

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
3. Exactly! And I bet that is part of his plan, get in the media non-stop with little investment by him.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:21 PM
Aug 2015

He's a very smart individual and knows how to pull the media strings to get what he wants.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
12. What else are they going to show?
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:20 PM
Aug 2015

It's not like we have a host of other political stories to talk about. Like what happened in the latest Democratic debate.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
19. Media is owned by corporations and there is nothing they would like
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:42 PM
Aug 2015

better than someone like Trump as president.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
23. Well to begin with history - the corportions in Italy and Germany made
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:47 PM
Aug 2015

out pretty good under corporatist governments. Some in the short term but others in the long run.

But mostly because that is what he is a corporatist and they are the owners of media. If we think bush and co. allowed corporations and the MIC to have their way. Just wait for Trump. He is all about money. All the other bull he is talking is window dressing.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
2. Yep! I was just mentioning that to someone this morning, any taking Trump lightly are not
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:18 PM
Aug 2015

very conscious of history. He is striking a common core with many people and that has led some countries into horrific hellholes. There is a lack of empathy and humanity with him IMO. He's a ruthless CEO type and IMO that is not the makings of a good president.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
6. yes, I think that the same psychological chords are being struck
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:56 PM
Aug 2015

as with some of the fascist dictators of the 20th century. It shouldn't be taken lightly, but I think we're in better shape compared to back then. For one, Trump is no Hitler in terms of his personal appeal. Hitler had something of a sympathetic backstory, being born into a struggling middle class family and becoming a decorated WWI veteran. Trump is a boorish loudmouth born into privilege. Ultimately, there's only so far you can go with your popular "he's one of us" appeal there. Also, I think many of the insecurities and failures of his past led Hitler to work hard at developing his skills as a public speaker/figure. Again, Trump being born into privilege and already famous is unlikely to be as open to self-improvement in this regard.

Jesus christ, did I really just use Hitler as a positive example?

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
26. Except America worships
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:59 PM
Aug 2015

Wealth and Fame for fame's sake. We worship a different backstory.

That's why he's dangerous.

ETA - Hitler!

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Yes. Mussolini dissolved Italy' parliament and replaced it with a business council. A major fascist
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:17 PM
Aug 2015

characteristic is persecution and suppression of some group the fascist followers, mainly social conservatives, want persecuted. Here, we have a wealth of groups these would-be fascists are straining to attack: all immigrants, American citizens belonging to a long list of minority group, non-Christians, and, of course, liberals.

I'm not sure Trump's the kind to be that afraid of, though. He would maybe just be a sheepdog whomping up national unrest for self aggrandizement, to be taken out by a pack of real wolves if a really destabilizing situation occurred.

That said, I believe we're far, more stable than some imagine. I just wish the signs of what could happen "IF" and who'd be turning in neighbors to the government weren't so obvious. It makes it hard to respect them for their good facets.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
4. "Make America Great Again"
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 01:46 PM
Aug 2015

is a little bit reminiscent of the nationalism that developed in Germany after WWI, as is the anti-immigrant rhetoric.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
27. He sounds just like the RW nationalists in Europe today. They all blame immigrants and
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:09 PM
Aug 2015

foreigners for their countries' problems. It's always the "others" who cause the problems, never your own 1%.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
11. I think that is the right historical comparison.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:19 PM
Aug 2015

Not the Austrian Corporal, who had a genuine messiah complex, amongst all the other myriad twists in his brain.

Mussolini was a big-talking blowhard, a cheapjack bully, and nothing more than a loudmouthed nationalistic street goon when you cut to the crux of the biscuit. The parallels are, um, readily apparent. Giovanni Gentile wrote all the theoretical materials for him and the Duce was smart enough to memorize them.

A very apt comparison, I think.

benld74

(9,904 posts)
13. Foreigners ARE to blame !!!
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:21 PM
Aug 2015

1) that foreign off shore bank used by the rich
2) that foreign subsidiary of an American Company used to shelter its money from taxes it SHOULD pay
3) that foreign country, our government always seems to attempt to give democracy/attempt to control its government/attempt to control its people
4) that foreign country American Company moves it manufacturing to in order to get lower/cheaper labor rates AND increase profits while shielding its money from taxes


ALL done for $$$$$$

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)
15. Of course it's the rich who are to blame, not the foreigners
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:34 PM
Aug 2015

Sorry if your post was sarcastic, I sometimes can't tell, looked serious to me. If I understood you correctly I agree with your points, just pushin back on the finger-pointing at the foreigners instead of at the forces of power that are using them (and us).

kimbutgar

(21,163 posts)
16. We should be calling MSNBC the trump network
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:37 PM
Aug 2015

Every damn show now on the network highlights him. There are other things going on that need to be discussed but on MSNBC it trump trump and more trump. It is so tiring and unwatchable.

And if he is against foreigners why did he marry 2 foreign women. Aren't American women good enough for him. I wish someone would point that out.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
18. Also flash-in-the-pan attention seekers who have no chance of getting elected
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:39 PM
Aug 2015

Or, in Trump's case, who don't actually want to be president.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
22. The corollary is also true... history is replete with buffoonish and ineffectual characters
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 04:15 PM
Aug 2015

The corollary is also true... history is replete with buffoonish and ineffectual characters who became little more than jokes and footnotes.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
30. To quote Molly Ivins on Krazy Uncle Pat Buchanan
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:40 PM
Aug 2015

"To be fair, I'm sure that speech sounded much better in the original German."

Still the best one-liner about any political speech. I cannot imagine the fun Molly would have with tRump and the rest of the klown kar.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
29. The Mussolini resemblance is intriguing.
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:40 PM
Aug 2015

He plays up to corporations & big media. Says his brain trust will consist of successful business people. Blames everything on dirty criminal foreigners. Says he'll build a much bigger military. He assures everyone that he'll treat everything like a business. That's somewhat equivalent to Mussolini saying he'd get the trains to run on time.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
35. This is an interesting line:
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 10:03 AM
Aug 2015
But he’s tapping into the rage and frustration many Americans feel when our country is exposed as being imperfect.

The U.S. brand of "patriotism" has always smelled of nationalism to me. It's one of the many serious flaws in the national character.
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