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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Bitch"
That's what he called the female reporter right before shooting her dead.
But as we all know that word holds no real meaning at all and isn't misogynistic at all.
Elliot Rodger didn't like females too much either.
The last theater shooting was also committed by a misogynist.
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Brickbat
(19,339 posts)...before #notallmen starts.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)
topological
(52 posts)Someone called someone a name.
Oh, and then they killed them.
But first they called them a name. Despicable. And then they killed them.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)You can take that strawman down now thanks. 
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What specifically leads you to believer that's the most disturbing aspect of the episode rather than part and parcel of the whole...?
Or (and I find this somewhat more plausible) you simply wanted an excuse to minimize and trivialize verbal abuse towards women. 
topological
(52 posts)I care more what was DONE. If you're one of those people who places epithets on the same plane as being SHOT TO DEATH, then I pity your disregard for life.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)that some some will not hijack to push their agenda. 
topological
(52 posts)There are actually people on this site who, given a choice between being called a name and getting THEIR HEAD BLOWN OFF,
would have to think about it for a second.
"Mr. Jones, for your senseless, cold-blooded murder of this woman, you are hereby sentenced to fifty years in prison. May God have mercy on your soul."
"Your Honor, may I remind the Court that he called her a bad name just prior to the shooting."
"Mr. Jones, in light of this new evidence I sentence you to sixty bajillion years in an underwater prison, to be spent in compete darkness. How DARE you call someone a name before blowing their head off."
boston bean
(36,223 posts)But you might be missing out on some things.
Usually, the honor or the jury are presented the motive.
topological
(52 posts)And the alleged claims of racial discrimination. But hey, if you are so keen to blame misogyny, then bless your heart.
I wonder if any women were killed on 9/11...
boston bean
(36,223 posts)We are suppose to be only looking at the physical act, right? As per you...
boston bean
(36,223 posts)One that makes you throw up, obviously. Which I find sort of pathetic. But....
There is no agenda, but a point to be made. It was made in the OP, agree with it or not, makes no difference to me personally.
topological
(52 posts)Because it appears that you are trying to blame these murders on misogyny.
We won't know until you clarify, but I won't hold my breath for that.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)used do have a meaning and a history in our sexist/misogynist culture.
You have a problem with that?
topological
(52 posts)What that has to do with this event, if anything, is unknown.
Proving that misogyny CAUSED this double murder will be quite a difficult endeavor for reasonable people.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)even when he hisses "bitch" right before pulling the trigger.
topological
(52 posts)Or at least she'd be dead for a BETTER REASON, right?
Is there audio of anything he said to the man he killed? Maybe we can do a twofer if he called him a homophobic slur.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)topological
(52 posts)You've advanced none, so there can be no strawman.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)And so haven't others in this thread to you.
You are the one intent on minimizing what you just said upthread you agree with me on.
topological
(52 posts)Let me be equally clear: to take one word uttered at the point of three shootings and two murders as evidence of an entire motive is at best laughable. I am sorry if you disagree. Actual adults without an agenda will examine the facts and evidence, and it will be presented in due time. I would bet many lifetimes of salary that it won't be "misogyny."
And I believe it is pathetic that my skepticism will be fashioned into an accusation that I do not believe misogyny exists or is an issue in our society. But that's the internet for you.
brush
(53,922 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)
whathehell
(29,096 posts)Nah..I didn't think so.
The fact is, the killer had documented rage and resentment of women. How is he so different
from a Dylann Roof?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)just a hunch
boston bean
(36,223 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)He whispers the word bitch standing about 10 feet away from her, she doesn't hear him nor does the camera guy he is standing behind...
First thing she hears are gunshots hitting her in the body and then sees him-
Just FYI
boston bean
(36,223 posts)My goodness, you are gonna argue with me about whether he meant her or not.
The lengths some go to, is mind boggling.. But continue on, go right ahead.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I think this was workplace violence, clearly, with an added possible racial motivator thrown in.
The B word is commonly used (unfortunately) by both males and females to call women a name. I've heard it used by females, and I'm quite sure they're not misogynists.
I've heard it used by gay males against other gay males, by men against men, by women against women. I'm female, and I've used it.
I don't think this cold-blooded execution had anything to do with misogyny.
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)This might be the first time I've gotten to a thread before the delivery guy.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)I grew up in the sticks-and-stones era. We knew what to be afraid of. Guns. Bullets. Not names.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)made in the OP.
But that's just me. YMMV.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Said no one,including the OP.
niyad
(113,599 posts)possible motive for his killing spree.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Never mind that there is now one more woman who has been violently murdered, with that particular not at all offensive word ringing in her ears during her final conscious moments on this earth.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)And i can't ignore that this guy obviously wasn't wired properly so one grossly off-center idiot with a gun does not represent a culture.
Although i agree with you in general, i don't think it applies to this situation.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)significantly different than any other woman being murdered while being called a bitch. The word has deep cultural references, regardless of the mental health of those using it.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)It's not domestic violence, which is, i fully concur, deplorable.
It's one screw loose who conducted a vendetta against people with whom he had an imaginary beef.
I don't care for the word either. But this sentiment seems to be marginalizing the fact that a guy was also killed. Because he didn't call the guy a name first, it's not as bad?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)even though he is just as dead. This thread is proof Those people are moral and mental midgets.
I agree with your post in its entirety.
Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #18)
hifiguy This message was self-deleted by its author.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)So, how are you coming to the conclusion that it has to be domestic to be misogynist?
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)I never said otherwise. Might want to rethink your reply.
I'm saying i can't see how the guy's misogyny is relevant to the story.
Never said he wasn't an evil creature who used a misogynistic insult.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Even when calling someone a "bitch" right before pulling the trigger and shooting them dead on the spot.
Ok.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)He shot more than one person. Which part of that fact is too calloused over to recognize?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)That his main target was the woman he called a bitch and then show dead.
The lengths people go to to deny any of these events are motivated by misogyny is unreal.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)Yet 3 were shot. What part of that are you willing to ignore? Apparently, two thirds of it.
On Edit: Show me where i'm denying misogyny is real and a problem. Not once. In fact i specifically said i don't use that sort of language because i think it's wrong.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Yes or No.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts). . .she is the only target. We don't know if he called the guy a name. We don't know that he didn't. We don't know if he called the other woman a name.
And, again(!), while i don't use that sort of language, it's such common parlance that it could have been something more personal than a broader misogynistic motive.
He was clearly unhinged, and to attempt to ascribe any specific motive does not appear based in fact.
He shot 3 people. Three! What was his motive for the other 2?
I don't know, and neither do you
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Snow Leopard
(348 posts)He clearly hated 'that' woman, not necessarily all women just because they were women.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Not really.
I think you're too focused on the specifics of this incident, and not looking at the larger picture. Although it's early and initial reports could be wrong, but the gunman's beef appears to be against the woman reporter. The camera man and the lady being interviewed were collateral damage. The reporter was killed because he believed that she had made a racist statement to him at some point in the past. How dare she??? In his mind, the "bitch" was just getting what she deserved. Unfortunately, that's a pretty common sentiment in our culture.
I appreciate that you don't like the word, I really do. I wish more people felt like you.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)It has been widely used throughout history by English-speaking peoples.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Jebus wept.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)be pregnant with out a ring. yes. a horribly offensive name for a man.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)That's preposterous. This is the incident we're talking about. How could i be too focused on it? Clue to the answer: Can't be.
He killed two people and tried to kill all three. And, he's is a villain! No question about it.
But, i say he doesn't represent a broader view or that it's irrelevant to the situation because it's not reasonable to expect me to ignore the details of a mass murder that just happened.
ram2008
(1,238 posts)And it is used pretty frequently.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)There is a TON of actual misogyny in the world that needs to be dealt with.
You make that effort seem ridiculous.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)Honest question.
Because most of the people I know personally, who use the oft-repeated response of "you're whining about nothing, little lady, and trivializing the *real* problems of women!"
aren't doing anything about those *real* problems. They speak up only to shut women up, not to improve our lives.
It's generally just an excuse to complain at women who (gasp) make them uncomfortable.
Hopefully you're a big activist for women. In which case you (and those few like you) are entitled to voice your opinion.
If not: look in mirror, ask self why you said that. No. Why you REALLY said that.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)A very long time ago, my father, before he left my mother with four kids pennieless he used to beat my mother, she used to run into my bedroom so he would stop. Am I a misogynist for pretending to be asleep?
I've been called all kinds of names, believe it or not. Names don't hurt me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)not the other way around. i cannot imagine a single person challenging you and calling you misogynistic cause you pretended to be asleep has nothing to do with each.
IF you are being called that, possibly there is a reason. but not that
and i am sorry your family experienced what you all did.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)But words only hurt if you let them.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)words have meaning, and are very effective in many ways. the forever tale of mere words, that women always lie. in art, in comedy, in all ways, permeate into our minds where we live in a society that do not trust women as much as men.
i could go on and on about how you absolutely minimize, and did it purposely. but, no way am i getting into such a heavy conversation now.
you tripped me up by your question, which seems to be a game, while i was horrified at the suggestion you should feel any guilt over your experience.
my bad.....
but, i am not doing this tonight.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)I was going to say the same thing to you (about not getting into it). Look... I have seen women degraded, beaten - the whole thing. Women I love and loved.
But. this is the but. Don't let yourself be defined by any word that anyone uses.
No games.
Good night to you.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)My mother ran to the bathroom because it was the only room that could lock him out.
You still haven't answered my honest question.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)conversing with. I didn't call him names, and I don't know who you are. So what's this, "I been called a lotta names" stuff??
pampango
(24,692 posts)It is certainly not the greatest tragedy given the 2 deaths but it was uttered by someone who was a misogynist in addition to being a murderer.
topological
(52 posts)"You just killed my MOTHER!"
"The bitch had it coming."
"OH MY GOD! YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST, TOO???"
pampango
(24,692 posts)would that be a relevant aspect of the story in your opinion?
topological
(52 posts)Let me go ahead and guess that 99.999999999% of the world's population would prefer an insult to a hail of gunfire.
(Adjust the fraction above as required to exclude yourself)
joshcryer
(62,277 posts)topological
(52 posts)Taking two lives in cold blood puts people on death row, or in prison for life without parole.
Do the B- or N-words make that outcome more likely or less onerous and final? No.
pampango
(24,692 posts)in the case of murders, you are welcome to your opinion. I do not share it.
You seemed to have convinced yourself that anyone who thinks that expressions of hatred directed at murder victims are legitimate topics of discussion. Where to you get the idea that concern for hate speech and its consequences is the same as equating insults with murder?
topological
(52 posts)before three people were shot, and two of them killed.
Meanwhile no one, including the OP, is in possession of anything that would validate misogyny as a motive. Proposing motives in the absence of actual data goes by another word: bullshitting.
pampango
(24,692 posts)conclude that the cameraman was the target and the other two were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since he yelled "B****" instead, one might suspect that the reporter was the target and the cameraman was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If indications of the motive for murders is not important to you, I am glad you are not in charge of the investigation.
topological
(52 posts)Let me close my commentary on this ridiculous thread by simply saying that adults will examine actual evidence to determine the most likely motive. That evidence will come from, among other things, the manifesto he is said to have sent. I know how badly some people want to lay these murders at the doorstep of misogyny, but so far even a casual observer would struggle with that. Would you care to guess how many PEOPLE (men included) are called a b-, or some other hate-filled epithet, before they're killed by a lunatic? I will: more than one.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)black people,
that was an important part of the story. In fact, we all despised Fox for ignoring it.
This "disgruntled" male coworker who called his successful female colleague "Bitch!" before executing her: doesn't it seem possible that hatred of women was a factor?
As in, the "bitch" got the job he wanted, got more air time than he did, didn't defer to him enough, didn't know her place, "probably slept her way to the top," because "pretty women get stuff handed to them", and she didn't simper, filed a harrassment complaint against him. You know: she made the poor dear feel emasculated.
Is that why he was disgruntled? I have no idea. But given that those are OFTEN the reasons why disgruntled males stalk and kill females they call "bitches",
Then why are you so eager to avoid wondering about it?
Remember that college kid who went on a woman-killing spree in CA?
Some guy did it in a workout joint a couple years ago.
A lot of husbands beat and kill their wives for such reasons: "the bitch dared to not be my bitch!"
Serial killers looove hating on the women.
Makes em feel big, you know.
So it is really weird that you just don't wanna think about the possibility.
You wanna silence it.
Weird.
I invite you to think about it.
topological
(52 posts)Tossing an accusation in the air and allowing an air of outrage at the current culture to make it seem true may work with some people, but it doesn't work with me.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)That's the word of an angry male who hunted down a female co-worker.
If you want to wait for more background to emerge before taking a side, that's understandable.
But for some reason, you chose to enter this discussion. You saw people being angry at murder-plus-misogyny, and you criticized them for it.
Why?
topological
(52 posts)There is no point in discussing a matter for which, in the presence of a SINGLE WORD, you've made up your mind.
ps - a man was killed, too.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)think it's deliberate
An angry male did hunt a female coworker. He hunted a male coworker too. And maybe he yelled "You Damn Russian!" arebthe other guy. Maybe the two dead people had sold him a crappy car. Maybe the two coworkers conspired to take his beloved Akita to the dog rescue joint. I have no freaking idea
What I know:
-- he called her "bitch".
-- lots of women are killed due to misogyny.
-- you are for some reason moved to criticize people who point out misogyny.
And for the third time I ask you the question you keep dodging:
Why?
topological
(52 posts)
What I know:
-- he called her "bitch".
-- lots of women are killed due to misogyny.
-- you are for some reason moved to criticize people who point out misogyny.
I could leave this without further comment for the many DUers who see this for what it is, but just for the ducks of it:
1. Has it been established that he called her a bitch, with certainty?
2. What has your point #2 to do with point #1?
3. When have I criticized anyone who points out misogyny?
Here are my two arguments, which I leave for posterity (because I doubt you'll read or understand them):
1. In the case that the motive WAS misogyny, the punishment will nevertheless be for murder. If the motive WAS
misogyny, more evidence than merely a single uttered word will be required for proof. This thread is quite literally about
a single word. One word, against whatever other evidence there is.
2. If the motives WASN'T misogyny, then it is the acme of stupidity to attempt to intensify the murders of two people and the shooting of another by howling that they also said a bad word. While you may draw no distinction between being shot to death and being called a bad name, the law (thankfully) does.
zazen
(2,978 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)He has a manifesto. Let's read what's in it before making up our minds. Imagine that!
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)as those who will not see.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Misogyny can and does cause many killers to kill women. Listen to feminists who are literally fighting for women's lives.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...OR between guns and violence.
Because thinking about more than one thing in the same week hurts brains. Or something.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)He was fired in 2013 and she started a year ago.... But the cameraman turned him into hr and got him fired. He definitely did this because he hates women. He didn't care about getting turned in by the cameraman, why can't people think?
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)... derogatory.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...out of respect for others here in the USA.
Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)It's certainly most welcome and will advance your cause in significant ways.
chalmers
(288 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"t's certainly most welcome and will advance your cause in significant ways."
No more and no less that your minimization of it...
(space provided below to insert creative rationalization)
topological
(52 posts)by giving the remotest of shits what the gunman said.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)Because the meme of "females whining about their petty problems when there's *important* stuff to be discussed"
can NEVER be used enough!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Disgusting OP.
Response to Blue_Adept (Reply #10)
closeupready This message was self-deleted by its author.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Edit to add
Hey... I am over 1000 posts! I just noticed... Now you guys have to take me seriously.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hey lookie, over 100k and no, they do not still have to take anyone seriously, lol
I take you seriously. Post counts do matter around here. I am proud to have 1000 in 7 years, you should be honored I am talking to you, you have my attention enough to post and double bonus I am on vacation too.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hence though i recognized your name, but ASSumed newbie'ish cause just hitting a thousand. i have to remember not all people are mouths, like me. 
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)The ass thing was perfect, you and my wife would get along well.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts) 
lostnfound
(16,192 posts)Nice to see you are still here..after a long relative hiatus, ire friend to find numerous favorite DUers gone; I'm glad to see you are still here. 👍
Marr
(20,317 posts)Where is that coming from?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)Read this thread, where you happen to have many responses disagreeing with the OP:
Titled: " On "Bitch" and other Misogynist language "
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024962951#op
Seems you would know, right. Why you playing...
Marr
(20,317 posts)Not the meaning of the word 'bitch' inside the United States.
What's with the sleight of hand?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)The title of this the op you were responding too?
Texasgal
(17,048 posts)
Good to see you here!
boston bean
(36,223 posts) snooper2
(30,151 posts)I thought we weren't supposed to spell bitch out...is it correct now or b***h again?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)What's wrong with men?
What's wrong with men?
What is wrong with the male half of the human species? I just don't get it.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Thankfully, my case is in remission.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)
IVoteDFL
(417 posts)That said, the word is used so casually that I do not believe that many understand that it is misogyny when they use it.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)He killed her because she replaced him after he was let go. This is workplace violence, not an assault on women.
And he used the term "bit*h" because he was angry and wanted to scream out something awful.
How misogynist the murderer is actually - well, we don't know. Perhaps the women in his life will speak out, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he is extremely misogynistic.
Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #50)
closeupready This message was self-deleted by its author.
Logical
(22,457 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)I'm a bit torn on it.
Guys aren't a repressed group based upon their sex. So, the power in the word is not the same.
But some guys think it is sexist.
So, I've stopped using it.
How about you?
Logical
(22,457 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Syzygy321
(583 posts)figure out why.
For one thing: the background of our culture comes into it. "Honky" will never have the same power to denigrate that "n----r" does. One word is (and always has been) spoken by the lynchers and the other by the historically lynched.
Women have always been on the crap end of male violence, male exploitation, etc. Sure it *sometimes* goes in the other direction but, cmon. Have you not opened your eyes?? It's time you did.
Women have been men's "bitches" since civilization began. We've only been climbing out of that (slowly) for the past hundred years or so. And in most parts of the world we are still men's "bitches."
Here's a challenge: every day this week, read your local paper and post all the male-on-female violent crimes to LBN. Do the same for the female-on-male violent crimes.
See if that helps.
Plus, if I say to someone, "quit being a dick", I dont mean anything degrading about his maleness or his penis. Really.
I answered your post on the good-hearted assumption that you are a thoughtful person.
Best wishes.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Of all the things to talk about during a double murder, you're concerned about the language of the killer?
Fuck sake
boston bean
(36,223 posts)I'm not one little bit embarrassed.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)XRubicon
(2,212 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)
Williams is the name the shooter used professionally; his real name is Vester Flanagan. Flanagan filmed himself shooting reporter Alison Parker, 24, and cameraman Adam Ward, 27.
He posted videos and rants on Twitter and Facebook airing his grievances with the journalists. His tweets included:
“Alison made racial comments.”
“EEOC report filed. They hired her after that?”
“Adam went to HR on me after working with me one time!!!”
“I filmed the shooting. See Facebook.”
Station general manager Jeffrey Marks acknowledged Flanagan filed a complaint against Parker, but it was dismissed after station employees failed to back up his claims of racial discrimination.
Rex
(65,616 posts)So this guy was a reporter, lost his job to someone else and then filmed himself murdering his replacement and her cameraman? Yikes and gadzooks!
That's so fucked up I don't know where to start.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Its horrible. I feel sick after seeing it just to warn anyone. I won't post the link in a public message for obvious reasons.
Rex
(65,616 posts)This is all starting to fall into place and make (horrible) sense now. The man was a msanthrope that turned into a ticking timebomb imo.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I guess it was inevitable since it happens in all fields of work or I would imagine it does. Not the filming part, that is a special level of disturbed imo.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There are very few spots for all the people who want to be on camera in news and media.
Once you get an on camera job, it's extremely high pressure, you get ratings or you are out. It's also cutthroat, with tons of folks ALWAYS trying to make the case to management at whatever network that they would get better ratings than you.
Once you fail at a media job, it can be hard to get considered again. You go from having some fame and making a good amount of money to nothing. Folks who lose jobs at the national level or large media markets can often go to a smaller media audience and get a job at a network there. But if you are already in a fairly small media market and lose THAT job, there might be nowhere to go.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)it gave me nightmares. It was on one of those shock sites, and I'll never do that again.
When that Canadian cannibal video came out, I didn't watch it, but I did watch some of the videos of people who set out to watch the cannibal video, and film their reactions in real time, and even THAT second-hand experience was nightmarish.
I suppose everyone does something like that once. Or not, who knows, but I just can't do it.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)I watched the Daniel Pearl one too. Which still haunts me.
This one isn't even close to that.
Never watched the cannibal one.. don't think I want to.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)You watched the video of this murder, and that's what prompted the thread. Having watched it, if you believe on that basis - both his language and for other reasons - that he was motivated by misogyny, then I can buy that.
The cannibal film is de facto a snuff film (as was the Daniel Pearl). I wish I thought there's something redemptive about the films, because then you could argue that the deaths weren't in vain, but I honestly, 100% can't think of ANYTHING redemptive about them.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)10 or so seconds later he just starts firing...
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)That's how I took what you are describing, anyway.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)killed more men than women.
Rodger hated players (men) and the women. Basically, despite all his money and car he couldn't be empathetic towards men and women. He was crazy.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)apparently that isn't good enough for you?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)
pecwae
(8,021 posts)She's dead.
topological
(52 posts)
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I think you know the answer.
Cant believe I wasted ten minutes of my life reading through it.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)THAT'S IT!
Prism
(5,815 posts)Syzygy321
(583 posts)She/he is pointing out that a misogynist slur was used during the murders.
How is that ugly or inhumane?!
Prism
(5,815 posts)You know, I'm not going to do this. People have to live with their own damn selves. I don't have to accompany the dysfunction.
Enjoy it.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)At least, it is for me.
Another poster has watched some manifesto video and confirms the woman reporter was the primary target and the killer refers to her as a bitch repeatedly.
BKH70041
(961 posts)This:
"Shooter States Motivation For Attack Was Victim Making 'Racist Comments'"
... is the story. And the various dog-whistles that would make him think what he did would be OK.
Seems this shooter hated a lot of things.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I want to read the manifesto. I know he alleges racism on her part. I want to see exactly what he has to say about that.
The camera man supposedly went to HR about the shooter but the shooter was much more focused on the woman.
BKH70041
(961 posts)I have looked but have been unable to locate it. Should you find one, please provide me with a link. Thanks in advance.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and put it online. Obviously that would be a quick and easy thing to do in general, but in this situation who knows what it will take for that to happen.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts) lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)the charleston murders. I do not think this had anything to do with hating women. He had been fired from at least two jobs for his difficulty in getting along with others. He had a grudge against the camera MAN, which he even posted about. Racial issues were obviously involved.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)He was motivated by hate for a whole bunch of other things except hate of women. Where he called his victim a bitch and then seconds later shot her dead.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)bad. He hated people. He was a self involved asshole. I think it is a shame that you have chosen to use this tragedy to try and make points (poorly) for that agenda.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Glad that your perception of me is more
Important than the actual issue.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Great book, and the author does a perfect job of tying together silencing of women, doubting women's accounts of their own lives, and overt violence against women.
She talks about the Eliot Rodgers case and she muses on the fact that while "lone" and "gun" are analyzed after every shooting, the "man" part is rarely talked about.
This whole thread makes me want to move to Feminist Jihad Camp In The Woods.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Matrosov
(1,098 posts)a dumb bitch at that, for not carrying a concealed weapon herself and killing the shooter 
After every shooting in the past months, there have been right-wing lunatics and trolls blaming the victims for not being armed and ready to defend themselves. I guess these shooting will only stop once everybody is packing a M60 underneath their jacket 
dionysus
(26,467 posts)?
generally these people kill because they are loaded with hatred seething inside, and take it out whoever it is they hate...
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Cause it seems it would be much more pertinent to others who deny it, no?
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Misogyny is real and it kills.
I don't understand how that concept could be considered controversial on a left-leaning website.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)You'll find them in nearly every thread moaning about anything to do with social justice unless it's #whitemalelivesmatter
boston bean
(36,223 posts)
romanic
(2,841 posts)than two innocent people getting shot on camera.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)In an often rambling letter to the authorities, and family and friends, he writes of a long list of grievances. In one part of the document, Williams calls it a “Suicide Note for Friends and Family."
He says has suffered racial discrimination, sexual harassment and bullying at work
He says he has been attacked by black men and white females
He talks about how he was attacked for being a gay, black man
“Yes, it will sound like I am angry...I am. And I have every right to be. But when I leave this Earth, the only emotion I want to feel is peace....”
------------------------------------
Lots more at the link. The guy was clearly a crazy rage-aholic but it's also true he had it in for white females.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Understand this.
I'm just takes an open mind to listen to others and their lived experiences.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)have a big share in the blame for an incident like this, whether they admit it (of course not!) or not.
We see it here every day: black vs. white, male vs. female, straight vs. gay, and on and on with the niche politics mindset. It's not only here, it's everywhere around us all the time. It's the mass fad psychology that pollutes every interaction today, micro to macro. It's what lets a person like this shooter believe that he's justified in doing something like this.
Enough already. Quit deepening the damn divides, and harping on the damn words. Enough with the you-offended-me tirades and the end-justifies-the-means mentality, and the rules don't apply to any who can run up a victim flag of some kind.
If DU didn't create that guy's mindset, it certainly could have. Are we going to look at that, for even half a millisecond, much less admit it? Oh, hell no! <Carry on, nothing to see here. Who me? I didn't do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because GUNS!>
boston bean
(36,223 posts)
Squinch
(51,025 posts) 
Squinch
(51,025 posts)
Syzygy321
(583 posts)But, I think, it's the oversimplified attitude of someone who has never been on the losing side of a divide.
Some injustices are real - and getting publicly angry about them is the only way to improve them.
OTOH I sympathize somewhat because I've been among people who were raised to nurse grievances: "The west is why our people suffer; they are trying to destroy our religion" stuff. It's a line of propaganda that serves incompetent or power-mad leaders well: point a finger elsewhere, establish a scapegoat, cast all local dissent as disloyalty, cast all internal social movements as treason, keep the citizens frothing at the mouth and ready to fight your wars, relieve yourself and all citizen-leaders of taking responsibility for the ever-crappy situation, deflect all criticism onto foreign villains, and claim God on your side.
Result: lots of bad things. Most recently a grievance-nursing guy on a train with a Kalahnikov, probably trying to "even the score" as he was taught.
But still. Legitimate criticism and well-founded anger are not the same as nursing grievances.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Constantly pumping up a giant chip on one's shoulder (or overly focusing on someone else's) seriously distorts judgement, which can lead very easily to some very dire consequences. In its mundane form, it's constant critiquing, which is habit-forming and not only extremely rude but destroys relationships, understandably. In its extreme form, it can lead to a cult-like mentality with a perceived license to commit crimes or acts of terrorism against innocent people.
Thought-pollution is a very real and dangerous thing. I'm against all of its forms, which all boil down to being manipulated by other people and spreading that virus outward.
I have only one small "but" to your thoughtful reply. I am on the losing side of a major divide. In fact, it's the divide focused on in this OP.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
Great post.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Thanks and likewise, pintobean!
As Yogi said, "it's deja vu all over again".
Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #158)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)are disturbing as is, full volume made it bad and I'm a sick woman who likes viewing gore (I think it's part of overcoming my PTSD, but that's a story by itself).
boston bean
(36,223 posts)MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)age the cameraman took.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)He built up into a "postal" epic-disgruntled employee, who wanted to suicide but take those he hated the most with him.
I hope he didn't take out any friends, family, or others the authorities find later.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)I have seen that word used more on DU than most other places, and often shows up by people saying others shouldn't utter it.
And since just about everyone here has at one time or another been labeled a misogynist I guess most of DU is just as dangerous as this guy.
Some people will use any tragedy to get attention for their pet causes/self, no matter how they have to shoehorn them in.
Response to The Straight Story (Reply #167)
Post removed
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)"If you say words, something happens, it just doesn't drop onto the floor or something, it's like radio waves, whatever I'm saying now - goes on, ad infinitum." - John Lennon #OnThisDay in 1968 John and Yoko appeared on 'Frost on Saturday' with David Frost to talk about their art and philosophies.
Word matter.
laureloak
(2,055 posts)Bitch, Son of Bitch, Bastard all insult females, not males.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)And I said "DIE YOU SON OF A BITCH" in the moment before pulling the trigger, who would I be insulting, exactly?
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)He writes what triggered today’s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting.
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
“As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!”
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him “his boy,” and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. “Also, I was influenced by Seung–Hui Cho. That’s my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold got…just sayin.'"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Response to XRubicon (Reply #182)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)You can hurt my feelings all day.
Don't kill me.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)happen in the home, victimizing current or former spouses/partners and children. Nothing sexist there. in case it is necessary
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)to every hateful insult people can possibly imagine. I saw that you were actually called "inhuman" upthread. A woman is dead along with hundreds of others murdered this year (hundreds and hundreds more beaten and raped) by angry men who have nothing but the utmost respect for women and girls.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I use "bitch", "dickhead", "dick", "cock", "asshole", "mother fucker" and a bunch of other words, for people of both genders on a regular basis. I'm not sexist. And I don't care if you think I am.
