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pampango

(24,692 posts)
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:25 AM Sep 2015

"Fighting between rebels and Islamic State (IS) militants around the strategic Syrian town of Marea

has left 47 dead ..."

The UK-based Syria Observatory for Human Rights said that 27 IS fighters were killed, with the rest being from other anti-government groups.

Marea lies in an area that Turkey and the US have reportedly wanted to turn into an IS-free "safe zone".

Last month it was alleged IS had used chemical weapons in an attack on Marea Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said that on 21 August it had treated four members of a family who suffered from breathing difficulties and developed blisters after a mortar hit their home in Marea.

The Syrian American Medical Society has also reported receiving 50 patients showing symptoms of chemical exposure. Local rebels say the shells were fired from an IS-held village to the east.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34165761

Still looking for stories titled "Fighting between government forces and Islamic State (IS) militants ...". There are many stories of the government attacking other rebel groups and civilians but not attacking ISIS.

Islamic State has killed many Syrians, but Assad’s forces have killed more

Government forces are responsible for many more of the estimated 250,000 deaths in the four-year-old conflict than are the Islamic State militants and rebel groups, analysts and monitoring groups say. The figures, they say, underscore how Assad’s indiscriminate use of violence has empowered the Islamic State and other extremist groups and forced millions of Syrians to flee to neighboring countries and Europe.

“For all the Islamic State’s horrendous brutality, we can’t forget that the Assad regime has been the main source of death and destruction in Syria since 2011,” said Emile Hokayem, a Middle East analyst at the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies. “You can’t solve the conflict unless you find a way to address this, which the world hasn’t yet.”

The conflict began in 2011 as a peaceful Arab Spring uprising that turned violent, many Syrians say, because of Assad’s brutal response to unarmed demonstrations against his rule. But the Islamic State shot to world attention only a year ago as it rampaged across parts of Syria and Iraq. As the media spotlight shifted to the group’s grisly beheadings and mass executions, Assad’s forces continued to ravage entire neighborhoods and the lives of people who live in them.

“Most Syrians still consider Assad as the biggest criminal and their worst enemy,” Hassan said. “And that means any initiative to fight the Islamic State, including the ones by the Americans, is bound to fail if rebels and Syrians in general see it as a diversion from fighting the Assad regime.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/islamic-state-has-killed-many-syrians-but-assads-forces-have-killed-even-more/2015/09/05/b8150d0c-4d85-11e5-80c2-106ea7fb80d4_story.html
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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
1. Casualties are roughly 50/50. This is B.S. warmongering
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:33 AM
Sep 2015

Both sides have suffered about 100,000 killed. Both sides have killed civilians.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
3. Any link to the 50/50 proposition? 'Both sides do it equally'. Truth is not 'warmongering'.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:55 AM
Sep 2015

Ignoring truth is not peace making. We have to deal with reality. There is evil on both sides. Dictators do not have a special right to rule.

If you have evidence that it is a 50/50 proposition, I would be interested to see it. If you believe that both sides are equally evil you are entitled to your opinion.

Having uncontested air superiority, the planes and helicopters to take advantage of it and the willingness to bomb civilian neighborhoods indiscriminately raises the death toll very quickly.

Both sides have killed civilians.

Quite true as in any war. We are talking degrees of evilness here not its existence on both sides.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
2. Clueless babble. About what one expects from WaPo.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:48 AM
Sep 2015

The lastest beltway line, who is the enemy today?

Assad operates according to the "Hama Rules", for sure, but so does everybody else involved in the conflict, and it was always the case that he would fight to the last man, and he has always had the support of Iran and Russia to rely on, for reasons which are also obvious. The idea that we should pick a side in the conflict in order to "solve" it is part of the problem. To solve it you will have to address the underlying issues of resource depletion, food insecurity, and drought, and there we have no clue. And guess what, it's coming to Europe now, and soon to visit us here in the USA, this problem, this is just the beginning of population movements. Globalization indeed!

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
4. What should US policy be with respect to Syria?
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 08:58 AM
Sep 2015

Is there anything positive we could do to help stop all the killing?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
7. Cut off ISIS/AQ funding at its source.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:12 AM
Sep 2015

We and the UK could do that by freezing Saudi and GCC funds. But we won't. If we did, the Russians would do the same with the regime.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
10. "If we did, the Russians would do the same with the regime." That is the voice of a true believer
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 01:17 PM
Sep 2015

in the wisdom and compassion of Russia's Syria policy.

Military exports to Syria are huge, precisely at the time that Russia's economy needs the export income. Russia did not limit support for Assad even before ISIS existed. Nor did it limit military exports to Syria in 2011 when it was the Syrian army vs. protesters. Russia's MIC is no more to be trifled with than is the American version.

Assad's forces spend little time attacking ISIS anyway. His military attacks other rebel groups, and the towns and neighborhoods they control, while these groups are battling ISIS.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
12. Takes one to know one.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 01:35 PM
Sep 2015

You don't really wonder why the Russians want to hold onto their last ally in the region? If the US wanted to broker a deal thst involved containing the Sunni Arabs the Russians would go for it in an instant. But we won't.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. It's difficult to do much at this point, not a lot of levers left, I'll have to think about it.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:15 AM
Sep 2015

However less guns and ammo and more water and food and stuff like that would be a step in the right direction, the people aren't going to stay put without some basic forms of security. And we need to stop picking sides, it's not our fight, we want them to get along, not to have one win and drive out the others. The larger question of how to restore order, I don't think there is anything you can do that does not have it's own problems, but getting all the major outside players (Russia, EU, China, Iran, etc.) together and threatening them with invasion, occupation, and war crimes trials comes to mind. I think that might be possible, put Kerry and Lavrov on it.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. There are a lot of people dying though, on all sides,
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:01 AM
Sep 2015

in fact it's getting hard to tell who the sides are any more in some parts of Syria. It's dissolving into a bunch of local arguments, there isn't much command and control outside of the government controlled areas, and there is plenty of disorder there too.

It is amusing that they are fighting over the "safe zone".

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
9. The media is preparing the propaganda battlefield for when ISIS fades, then Assad can be be the new ME bogeyman.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:18 AM
Sep 2015

Comparing two evils and putting them in some kind of scale is pointless, unless you want to keep the evil alive!

How is Assad any more evil than the murderous generals that seized power in Egypt, or the murderous Saudis that are committing mass murder of civilians in Yemen, not to mention countless human rights crimes in a systemic basis?! Somehow those guys get away with the evil and are given a pass by the very same media?

America always needs a bogeyman to justify it's criminally huge military.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
11. Assad is no more of a "bogeyman" than is ISIS. The reverse is true too.
Sun Sep 6, 2015, 01:29 PM
Sep 2015

Recognizing evil is not creating "bogeymen". Dealing with evil requires recognizing its existence, whether that evil is found in our own 1% or abroad.

Perhaps you fear that the only way to deal with evil is with the military. If that were true it might be good policy to just ignore the evil, "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" and hope that it goes away or, at least, just bothers other people.

We confronted the evil of a minority apartheid government successfully without using the military. It takes longer than a military "solution" but the result is more lasting.

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