of course, but guess who wont get it

northeastern Washington State. I had a lot of Canadian campers. The Canadians had better stuff, nicer tents, jet skis, boats, campers, bikes, etc. than the American campers. Yet when I talked to them they were working class, plumbers, carpenters and generally blue collar. My working class American campers were pretty shabby by comparison and often balked at the fees. I often had to redirect them to the free campgrounds that were pretty primitive in comparison after a couple of nights so they could finish their vacations.

It wasn't rocket science to figure out why the Canadians seemed so much better off than the Americans of equal class, even when they constantly complained about their dollars being worth less than ours. Yes, they had those above mentioned benefits and many others you haven't mentioned which actually gave them more spending money even when they paid higher taxes. Their taxes mostly benefitted them not the 1% MIC billionaire class like ours does.

Career opportunities are also severely limited outside of the largest and most expensive cities.

It turns out you can't live inside your provincial healthcare card, I know... I was surprised too.

Same in the USA. At least you have a provincial healthcare card.

Canada just doesn't.

like doctors, lawyers and government workers, no different than Canada. The rest of the population struggles to survive if they don't have another source of income like social security or trust fund. I live in such a place.

No, I stand by my statement.

Whether it's true or not isn't your choice to make.

did a Canadian hurt your feelings?

There are plenty of prosperous and affordable 'second-tier cities' all across Canada. My relatives live and work in them. I go to them, and see all the smiling, happy faces working at their meaningful employment.

Someone living in one of the big expensive US coastal cities can decide to leave and find similar opportunities in large second-tier American cities that doesn't have the same cost of living.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't find a similar finance job to my current one outside of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal.

One just recently moved from Calgary to a smaller city near me with no problems. Another nephew working for FCC in Saskatoon is doing very, very well. Oil companies even in my very small town pay huge wages to their accountants and office staff. I know, I worked with one and still do books for another part-time at home. You speak for yourself only ....... maybe you just haven't really looked into things.

And yes, it is.

and I became a Canadian citizen last year.

the value proposition of living in any economically viable region is not one of them.

You do realize your economy is tied to ours so when we dip so do you. You, of course, remind me of the Canadians I know who complain about everything up there because things are so much better in the USA. I point out to them that there are a lot of nice things in the USA for a few people who can afford them. I point out that things that Canadians take for granted like their health care have to be paid for out of pocket here even with the ACA. They think we have superior health care and in a lot of instances we do, but it's only for those who can afford it or beg for it if some charity deems them worth of it.

Canada is not perfect. I know that. But somehow the PTB up there are working really hard to bring your volatile Alberta tar sands down into my community to be refined. Why don't you guys keep your crappy oil up there and refine it yourself? You know why? Your politicians have to listen to you. Ours, apparently don't.

First of all for the record, I'm from California and I still own a home there.

It is an unfortunate accident of history that the great inland seas of North America went away before human settlement, it just turns out that come the middle of the 19th Century there just weren't that many whales to hunt in the great plains. You can't hunt whales for whale oil in Nebraska.

The great thing about oil is you can transport it to the market and then refine it into the refined products required by the local market based on immediate demand. You might find this funny but the refining issue is a huge political issue in Alberta, but it has become absolutely farcical. Alberta doesn't need another drop of refined product except for sometimes diesel. Alberta just doesn't have that much demand. However the US refineries that were dependent on heavy Venezuelan crude can manage quite nicely with the Alberta product. None the less the Alberta government, both the Conservatives before and now the NDP are subsidizing a stupid refining scheme that will benefit absolutely nobody and just leave tank farms full of kerosene, gasoline and diesel to pile up in Edmonton.

The problems with Canada that make people moody primarily boil down to it being insanely expensive and despite being expensive you just don't get much value for your money. From housing to services, you pay more, get less and the person taking your money probably won't conform to any polite and friendly Canadian stereotype.

What a steaming pile ......

middle class is worse off the middle class in the USA overall?

But the issue is the cost of housing, it is ridiculous and there really isn't anywhere one can escape from it and retain any meaningful career prospects.

Yes, we have been through that. It happened to me in the late seventies in So. Cal. You have to find a solution to the realtors and speculators making money off of this. No doubt they are from the USA and are bringing their toxic practices to you. First, get rid of your conservative politicians if you can. Next pass laws about foreign companies and billionaires buying property in your country. This is what inflated values in the US., foreign companies and others buying up real estate because we had lowered our property taxes and other government restrictions that made it easy for them to do it.

is driving Vancouver's ridiculous real estate pricing. I knew I should have tried to buy in 97. Would have got 2 booms in. US is certainly in the mix too. Lot's of US dollars here.
There has been some protest for laws to curb foreign money but it doesn't look good. Imho anyway.

Of course housing did go up, but not one that I know of has had to relocate or lost their home or not been able to rent or buy where they work because of it. They all have retained their 'meaningful' career prospects. You make a lot of broad-brush statements that I don't see much evidence of. Housing will never go back to what it was, but it's been declining steadily with the price of oil so low. Lots of homes near me being bought and sold for much less than they were two years ago. Rent has also come down. I don't think you can speak for many of us regarding how terrible we have it.

I said housing is more affordable and there are much better career prospects in the US. And if you're middle class those are two things that have a pretty big impact on your life.

The US has an entire second tier of cities that would crowd out most of the largest cities in Canada. All the while these cities don't have the insane housing costs but have most of the opportunities and amenities of the large coastal cities. Someone working on Bay Street or in the Alberta oil industry can't just quit, buy a cheap house in New Brunswick and expect to find suitable employment there.

And, housing here is affordable enough for everyone I know who's bought and sold. I'm not sure what your agenda is in making all Canadians seem like paupers suffering from paycheck to paycheck, but it's really not reality. Absolutely, we've seen costs for everything rise .......... but so have you. We also have our fair share of people who do live in poverty, but we always have and probably always will, for one reason or another. So do you. Our poor at least have health-care and other safety nets that vary province by province.

I love the lack of career stuff though. Please expand on that. Which career prospects, exactly, are we lacking?

Housing in Canada in most major cities is out of the comfortable reach of the middle class that it is being argued are so much better off here.

The career issue is simple, just look at the industries the Canadian diaspora in the US are working in. There are 350,000 Canadians just in Silicon Valley. At one time the fourth and fifth largest "Canadian" cities were Los Angles and New York.

The only Canadian industry where one can really reach for the stars while remaining here is banking.

There is no Canadian equivalent to Disney, there is no Canadian equivalent to Microsoft, there is no Canadian equivalent to Boeing.

You can only go so far in the branch office, that shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Like I said, I have a huge family and group of friends scattered all over the country - physicians, lawyers, entertainers - who are doing very well, despite not performing at Disney, law enforcement, plumbers, electricians, researchers, an air-traffic controller, yes - banking, and everything in-between. - 'reaching for the stars'.

You seem to believe billionaire corporations make a nation, and not ordinary people who do, in fact, work in meaningful, fulfilling occupations.

I don't even understand where you're pulling this garbage from. Seriously.

But many of the Canadian employees of the firm I work for will beg to be transferred to the US because they aren't happy. Things like not wanting to raise a family in a one bedroom condo, crazy stuff like that.

Not one person I know has had to move out of the country, and they're all doing well.

Are you going to say we stampede down there for health-care next?

All I said about the Canadian healthcare system is you can't live in your healthcare card.

about a lot of things you're 100% wrong on.

And no shit, no-one lives 'in' their health-care card ........ the good part is, #1 - we don't have to - #2 - we have one.

"Are you going to say we stampede down there for health-care next?"

Housing is more affordable in the US and there is more opportunity in more places, I will die on that hill happily. I'm not particularly invested in Hillarycare era Republican attack ads.

You made plenty of wild, f*ed up statements about us up here claiming you know we're all so much worse off for so many reasons, the funniest being ........ we have no Disney. Cool. Enjoy your Disney (I've been there, and honestly, it wasn't all that ... standing in line for an hour in the heat for a ride just isn't really my thing). I'll enjoy knowing our tax dollars go to support even the poorest of us and that the hundreds of people I personally know who are doing quite well at occupations they trained hard for are happy and not at all the 'moody', deprived citizens you've said they must be because of the horrible situation we live in. You really need to get outside whatever bubble you're in and talk to a few more of us.

don't let me interrupt.

just you.

That 'someone else' seems to be your magical scapegoat for not having to answer any of my questions, but c'est la vie.


Have a great day. eh?!!

I'm not saying that high housing costs are not a big problem. But I am saying that all things are relative and Canada has fewer problems with its middle class right now than the USA has.

And that's because of

But clearly you're right, the middle class Canadian is far better off in this environment than a similarly equipped American in the sunbelt.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/07/07/toronto-average-house-price-hits-1052-million-record.html

All the major Canadian cities are "coastal" from economic perspective.

Career opportunities even around my rural in-the-sticks location are just as good as yours, I would imagine. We need professionals - doctors, lawyers, etc., blue-collar workers, service workers every bit as much as in the city, and we have them. Farmers and oil companies hire battery operators, truckers, mechanics, accountants, seasonal workers ... all sorts of people. We have health-care centers, elderly and palliative care homes, etc. that employ many, many people. We have sports centers, dining, fitness ... many small businesses. I work the odd day at my friend's bar to help her out, I see strangers all the time who've come for a job and enjoy it here.

What careers do you believe we might lack?

I make a decent living, and find my (meager, probably by your standards) income to provide quite sufficiently for all my needs. My health-care system provides very well for me. If I need prescriptions that are very expensive I can apply for coverage and benefits from our provincial special support program. I can choose my doctor, most times my specialist and I've never, ever had to wait any length of time that was harmful in any way.

Of course there aren't the number of jobs as there are in the city, but is that any different than any rural area anywhere?

I'm not sure what you're surprised about, honestly.

Go do a stint up north, where reading and writing can get you a $30 an hour job. Of course cost of living is higher, but not THAT much higher. And you get a northern living allowance.

and now property is inflated sky high and there are few homes available for sale. Median home prices are between $300,000 and $400,000 in some areas.

They may have a burst bubble before long in real estate, but at least they are able to purchase homes rather than spend every cent they don't have on health care.

ugh. "Soshalism!"

Jesus.

But social security isn't socialism because, "I paid into it".

The collective IQ on there was pushing 50.

live another day without getting a boot squishing their skull