General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe impossible just happened in Texas
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impossible-just-happened-in-texas-2015-9?utm_content=buffer58f9a&utm_medium=blog&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=Epoca+Now+via+BufferDaniel Gross, Slate
Sep. 20, 2015, 4:02 PM
Shutterstock
Austin, Texas.
In the wee hours of the morning on Sunday, the mighty state of Texas was asleep.
The honky-tonks in Austin were shuttered, the air-conditioned office towers of Houston were powered down, and the wind whistled through the dogwood trees and live oaks on the gracious lawns of Preston Hollow.
Out in the desolate flats of West Texas, the same wind was turning hundreds of wind turbines, producing tons of electricity at a time when comparatively little supply was needed.
And then a very strange thing happened: The so-called spot price of electricity in Texas fell toward zero, hit zero, and then went negative for several hours.
As the Lone Star State slumbered, power producers were paying the state's electricity system to take electricity off their hands. At one point, the negative price was $8.52 per megawatt hour.
..more...
Human101948
(3,457 posts)How many times have you heard a wingnut say so?
KansDem
(28,498 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)especially in states with lots of sunshine, will pass laws saying people do not own the solar rights above their homes and land. Sort of like people already don't own the mineral rights. Give it time.
47of74
(18,470 posts)Knowing the dumb fucks they own all over this country it'll probably get introduced sooner or later.
CrispyQ
(36,509 posts)"If they could put a tap on the sun, we'd have solar everything by midnight."
eggplant
(3,913 posts)Bah dum pum.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)eggplant
(3,913 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)Three men were in a NASA conference room to decide how to spend $10 billion.
I think we should put our men on Mars! said the first man.
Ooh, good idea, said the other two.
I think we should put our men on Venus! said the second man.
Ooh, good idea, said the other two.
I think we should put our men on the Sun!
How are you going to do that?
Easy. We go at night.
rpannier
(24,338 posts)Hey eggplant I just figured out your style, your comedy styling is in the same mold as Gregory Peck
eggplant
(3,913 posts)rpannier
(24,338 posts)eggplant
(3,913 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,564 posts)Solar works in Germany, but will never work in the US, because it gets much less sunlight, and turbines slowing the wind, which is a finite resource after all, will actually increase global warming.
These facts were on both TV and the Interwebs, so I know they are true.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)laws will be passed against it. Oops, in some states they already have been.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)it is time to rethink many things
K&R!
OS
littlebit
(1,728 posts)Springfield MO and back six days a week. The number of windmills going up right now off of I-40 is amazing.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)littlebit
(1,728 posts)It takes me 8 1/2 hours each way.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)I'm a truck driver.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)fast enough.
That's still 17 hours a day of driving. Is it legal?
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)littlebit
(1,728 posts)We are only allowed to drive 11 at a time before we have to take a 10 hour break. I have a co driver so the truck runs about 22 hours day.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)of the time. Of course they are imported because we don't make shit here anymore!
47of74
(18,470 posts)I used to have to drive a bit more often for work so I'd see them around the Quad Cities where a truck would be hauling a blade somewhere.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,376 posts)How could this be? I mean, even the most efficient producer couldn't afford to provide electricity free or pay someone to take it.
Well, there's one more wrinkle. Typically, wind is bid at the lowest prices because you don't need fuel, it doesn't really cost that much money to keep wind turbines moving once they have been built. But wind operators have another advantage over generators that use coal or natural gas: A federal production tax credit of 2.3 cents per kilowatt-hour that applies to every kilowatt of power produced.
And that means that even if wind operators give the power away or offer the system money to take it, they still receive a tax credit equal to $23 per megawatt-hour. Those tax credits have a monetary value either to the wind-farm owner or to a third party that might want to buy them.
As a result, in periods of slack overall demand and high wind production, it makes all the economic sense in the world for wind-farm owners to offer to sell lots of power into the system at negative prices.
Only in Texas, folks. Only in Texas.
So this phenomena was facilitated by a US Government tax subsidy.
brush
(53,843 posts)regional power grids like the other states are so they couldn't send the power to neighboring states.
Another odd Texasism (is that a word?).
They're getting into Flori-duh territory there with there weirdness.
47of74
(18,470 posts)I do wonder how much it would save him in electricity since the barn has so much roof space.
Volaris
(10,274 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Has handy features like "draw where you're gonna put the panels on google maps, and we'll figure out how many panels you can fit"
Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)Clean solar initiative for low income households would pass. Or that the cost of panels come down. They are still pretty high for what materials they are made from. Hook up and battery storage is another hurdle to tackle as well. I know there are big strides being taken in this area, but property ownership and affordability is leaving more & more people in the dust these days
Thank you!
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)... and he described how, as more and more people go solar or off-grid to save money, the remaining customers are left to pay the fixed costs of building/maintaining the grid infrastructure (and other fixed costs), and thus rates will keep inching higher and higher -- and that hurts guess who? People on small or fixed incomes.
====================
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Far more likely is distributed generation while remaining on-grid.
First, a very, very, very large number of people don't have enough space and southern exposure to get 100% of their power from solar. They can get part of it, but not all of it.
Second, the grid is a much more lucrative "dump" for excess power. Local storage is hard, and currently high-maintenance and expensive.
Third, the grid is a fabulous backup for your own systems. Cloudy week? No problem. Sure, you'll pay more on the next electric bill, but at least you actually have power. Same if your system develops a fault - you'll at least be able to get power from the grid until you can fix it. And fixes are very often not cheap.
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)=================
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The main stumbling block is #1 - all those people in NYC aren't going to be able to put up solar plants big enough to go off-grid.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)It's a big investment, but he says so far it has been paying off. He has a fairly large operation.
kairos12
(12,872 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)May many more days worldwide become spot-price zero days!
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It should even be lower this winter when I renew my contract.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Likely less of a glitch than the syncopated sound of champagne corks popping.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)The wind NEVER stops.
It is enough to drive some people bonkers.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)absolute truth.
Gloria
(17,663 posts)They want to raise rates for more upgrades. No sweat for me...
I ugraded my 70% system to 100% 1 1/2 years ago under the same terms...getting paid 12c a Kwh I generate...those deals are gone, way down to 2c, I think...
It's my hedge against future costs,,, the tax rebates were great and both sections will pay off at the same time, now about 4 years...then...really free!
And having no bills now is great, to!
ion_theory
(235 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,818 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,214 posts)The problem is the lack of high capacity transmission lines in the places where the wind is blowing. The Texas panhandle, where it's windy all the time, doesn't use all that much energy. So that means building or upgrading hundreds of miles of lines to major metro areas.
Pickens thinks the feds should build the transmission line network not unlike Eisenhower built the interstate highway system. Of course the fossil fuel producers think that's unfair and unwise. They'd rather frack the country into oblivion.
Keep in mind Pickens is old and he's a hedge fund manager. He wants quick return on his investments. Right now he's investing in natural gas. He still sees large scale wind energy as part of America's future, but he's not willing, at this point in his life, to put up all the money.
brush
(53,843 posts)but that would have provided so many jobs and boost the economy and make Obama look good so the repugs would never let that happen, the a-holes that they are I would even venture towards anti-American/anti-country a-holes that they are.
Same with the high-speed rail system and other infra-structure fixes that need doing. Too many people would have good jobs that can't be off-shored for the repugs' liking.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,214 posts)the problem of brown outs and black outs should be less. The biggest demand is during the summer WHEN IT'S SUNNY. It should take stress off the grid.
The GOP would rather spend money on the military and if you pour all that money into it, you have to have a war periodically to justify all that spending. Isn't it. funny that we've spent more money, as a % of GDP, on the Department of Defense than when we called it the Department of War.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)We could do it for less than the price of the Iraq War 2.
Oh. No radiation, either.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/for-the-price-of-the-iraq-war-the-u-s-could-have-a-100-renewable-power-system/5330881
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)AnAzulTexas
(108 posts)that shit-ass Neugebauer will have something negative to say about this malarkey
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Thanks for the thread, G_j.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)and we are 100% renewable. Perhaps our efforts are making a difference
jamesatemple
(342 posts)With the weather cooling a bit last week, my kWh usage for that week was 341.37 kWhs at a cost of $12.05, just a tad over 3½¢/kWh. I can't remember having electric bills that reasonable during the last 20 years. I just hope it continues at a comparable rate.
turbinetree
(24,720 posts)ReactFlux
(62 posts)And then some.
turbinetree
(24,720 posts)and using the proverbial saying------------- it's free
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)turbinetree
(24,720 posts)or it should be said Hot, HOT
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)One of my favorite groups.
turbinetree
(24,720 posts)enjoy:
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Takket
(21,625 posts)How was that allowed to happen? Was Rick Perry asleep???????? Probably shouldn't publicize this much. Texans might go tear down Satan's windmill if they find out!!!!!!!!!