"Preach the Gospel always, when necessary use words." A walking talking Parable.

I don't hear condemnation from him, but forgiveness, humility and charity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Snyder

The man is doing as Christ would do.

Can't wait to see the other side criticize him for it.

then the homophobic bigot has no business addresssing Congress.

And dining with the homeless? Would we expect anything different from Pope Photo-Op?

Sid

Really??? So what you take out of these actions is that the Pope is a hypocrite and does not care about the homeless???

Ok, I don't see it, and I certainly don't agree. And I am sorry for you that your outlook on life prevents you from seeing a truly good person walking the walk instead of merely spouting platitudes.

"Truly good" people don't compare same-sex marriage to a plan from Lucifer.





Sid

He has a strongly held belief in one area that stems from his religion. He is the Pope, after all.

I am able to strongly disagree with him on this one issue, yet still understand that in many, many areas, he is as liberal and progressive as we are. In fact, I would argue that given his circumstances and situation, he may be the most effective progressive political figure currently out there.

BTW, I am not catholic, and not particularly religious. But I can recognize net good when I see it regardless of other labels.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]And his policies hurt the LGBTQ community, women, and catholic third world countries being destroyed by STDs.

His overall good is minimal at best.[/font]

And the third-world sex issues (though he has moderated greatly the rhetoric of past Popes). But he is right on so many others, especially his work with the poor and attacks on social justice. Coming from the Catholic church, which for so long in recent history has been on the sides of those in power, this, in my opinion, greatly outweighs his lack of ideological purity on all issues progressive. INSIDE his own church, he is actually quite liberal even in these areas (though still "conservative" vs. DU and most of western society).

That said, if those issues are a litmus test issues for you (and this applies to the gay marriage issue too), then I can see where the venom comes from. But since gay marriage, at least in the US, is no longer a legal issue (though still not fully accepted by society), I find his ability to push and reform the economic social justice issues to be FAR more important and having a far broader positive impact on the most vulnerable of us.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]That is one of the things that bothers me the most as an ex-catholic about the pope hype. He hasn't changed one single policy from when Benedictus was pope in his over two years as pope.

On which of these issue does Pope Francisco differ from Pope Benedictus?

1. Opposition to War


2. Opposition to the death penalty


3. Opposition to the Contraception


4. Opposition to abortion


5. Support for human welfare and the poor


6. Opposition to gay rights


7. Tepid support of evolution


8. Support of Climate Change science


9. Opposition to women's rights


10. Protecting Child abusers


11. Opposing ending priest celebicy


12. Support Female Priest/cardinals/bishops

Which one of the above did Francisco changed from his predecessor? Not one. Not a single one. But magically, the left has just now discovered the progressive side of the catholic church? Despite the RCC overall being SLIGHTLY progressive for decades upon decades now?

And just because same sex marriage was legalized by the courts does not mean there still are not tons of issues facing LGBTQ people that the pope fights against. In many states it is still illegal for LGBTQ people to adopt. In 30+ states it is still legal to fire someone for being gay or to evict them for being gay or both.

And now that SSM is legal some insurance companies are forcing gay couples to get married which reveals their orientations to their bosses. Married today, fired from your job and evicted tomorrow. This is not even considering the ever lasting assault upon abortion rights, or that most states do not have death with dignity laws.

There are tons of people out there, who are just as good on economic issues as on social issues. Why can't we focus on them instead? Hell, even if you insist upon someone religious there are still people like Desmond Tutu (pro-LGBTQ/pro-choice) out there who don't carry all this baggage.[/font]

"Religion is an insult to Human dignity"

As is politics... but I suppose we all of us pretend some imaginary things are more valid, more real and maybe even more righteous than other imaginary things, regardless of how we rationalize it to ourselves if not to others. I'm to understand that imaginary borders may even dictate who gets food and who doesn't.

Alright. Seriously.

Does a "truly good person" call gay marriage a "machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God"?

If so, I daresay our standards for goodness are in dire need of revision.

I strongly disagree with it. But I am not so close-minded that I cannot see the good with the bad and make reasoned judgements.

I know you think you're being reasonable, and perhaps by your own standards you are. I, however, am not of the opinion that calling a bigot a bigot is a symptom of a closed mind.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Praising a man whose church called ssm a "defeat for humanity."

Who fights tooth and nail against gay marriage, gay adoption, gay rights in general, against women's rights, against abortion rights, against contraception which would both saves lives and help the environment, and even the right to die with dignity.

The pope is directly responsible for the damage the RCC is doing currently. It is YOUR heart that is cold if you choose to ignore that.

And if he really cared about the homeless he would sell all the valuables the catholic church owns and feed them directly.

He is not a "truly good person," he is a RW anti-gay PR man for the catholic church and nothing more.[/font]

Can't they see beyond their own interests? To accuse those that praise the Pope for his works of having a "cold" heart because of his beliefs is myopic. How dare state those that have admiration for this Pope have a "cold" heart? Some perspective is needed here - he is a "truly good person" to many RC's doing good works regardless of your interests. Would like to remind one that many Catholics admire his works and the petulance from the LGBTQ community towards him is unseemly in my opinion. Would also like to remind one that the Pope does not necessarily reflect their own personal attitude toward others.

Your harsh assessment that he is "a RW anti-gay PR man for the Catholic church and nothing more", is offensive to the church, its millions of adherents, and the man. It is regrettable that this man does not meet your purity test. Strange words from a community that profess love for humanity but cannot see beyond their own lives and their own goals of everyone, everywhere meeting their standards.

The LBGTQ community is petulant for not kissing the Pope's ass to your liking? For not satisfactorily praising the man who has time and time again described their struggle for equal rights - no, basic human rights - as a dangerous moral evil that threatens to undo the very fabric of just society?

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal] His logic could be applied to anyone who has ever expressed support to any liberal cause ever.

How dare we get mad at Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps!!! They expressed economic or foreign policy positions somewhat similar to the left's position at one time or another. Therefore, we should be ashamed for criticizing them!


Us and our damn purity tests!!!!

[/font]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/remembering-the-trans-women-weve-lost-in-2015_55d7328ae4b00d8137edf481

http://www.newsweek.com/vatican-transgender-godparents-368142

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/being-gay-in-kenya-i-m-a-refugee-in-my-country-9688587.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/06/the-hunted-gays-of-putin-s-russia-vicious-vigilantes-and-state-bigotry-close-up.html

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/_i_kill_them_hbo_s_vice_goes_to_uganda_to_see_what_american_anti_gay_christians_have_created

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]A good deal of this hatred stoked directly by the RCC.

AND MAYBE, you didn't see where when I accused him of having a cold heart I was using his own phrase against him...yeah.

But, sorry, it is kinda hard to see beyond your own issues when you are getting beaten and killed. When you are having your very humanity denied and rights stripped away from you. When your bodily autonomy is being denied as abortion laws are destroyed. When you are being forced to die in agony because someone has determined the right to die is not for you.

Cause, you know, people can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Because people can't support BOTH economically progressive policies and [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=crimson]NOT BE HOMOPHOBES[/font] at the same time right?

[center] [/center]

If he is [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=crimson]fighting to end LGBTQ rights[/font], to [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=crimson]end women's rights[/font], deny contraceptives that will [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=crimson]save Countless Lives[/font, and supporting policies that make [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=crimson]people die in agony[/font]....yeah that is kinda the definition of not a good person. But if we ignore all that then SURE he is a good person. And so was Christopher Columbus. Why can't people see past the teenage sex slave trade he created or the genocide he created....

If my assessment is offensive to the Catholic Church, it adherents, and the man...[font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=6 color=crimson]then good[/font]. They need to be offended out of their perches of apathy and intolerance. To have their world shaken and to take a good look at the harm they are supporting or in the case of the church itself, causing directly.

Just as I was when I was a catholic.

Purity test?

Expecting to treat your someone like a human being is now a purity test. [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=crimson]Damn That MLK jr!!![/font] How dare he demand complete purity from George Wallace and all the other bigots who stood in his way!

[font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=6 color=crimson]Peoples' lives are NOT a purity test!!![/font]

Here is what is strange to me, that you accuse me of not seeing beyond my own life when I am here arguing on behalf of others and YOU are defending someone who has worked endlessly to strip others of rights. Up is down and left is right I guess. Cause again....you don't think it is possible to find someone who is both promoting economic justice AND social justice (FOR EVERYONE) at the same time.

Do you give Pat Robertson a big "atta boy" when he says something economically liberal? Of course not. Because, like the Pope, at the end of the day he is a bigot. Why can't you see past your own issues to see how offensive your intolerance of his intolerance is offensive to the 700 club?

[center] [/center]

I also wonder why when confronted by all this bigotry why do you try to deflect it rather than refute it? You didn't even try and deny a single thing I said...cause you know it is all true. Instead all you do is derail and distract...cause you can't defend the pope against a single accusation.

The question you should be asking is not how angry is the LGBTQ community, it is [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=6 color=crimson]why in Tartarus[/font] are you not angry too?[/font]

Can you not see that just because the pope is pandering to you there are large groups (Gays, Women, Children) that he is actively hurting?

If you're more worried about the church being offended, than the people who the church is hurting, then you really need to re-evaluate your stance on progressive issues.

We can disagree with others without trying to do everything in our power to silence that person. Most of us in the US value our First Amendment.

preacher denigrate LGBT and hinder the rights of women in our Congress and that the preacher gets to say what he wants in his church. It does not promise the preacher gets to trash talk others in the Congress.

If Francis spoke of any other minority the way he speaks of LGBT, DU would despise him. The end.

But he's going to be addressing Congress, no matter what you, me, or Sid happen to feel about it.

On Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:25 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

If he's going to use religious arguments to criticize support for abortion and same-sex marriage...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7194817

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I'm not a Catholic, but this hate-filled comment ridiculing anyone, let alone an internationally respected figure, for dining with the homeless is as over-the-top as one can go. As to the homophobic slur, I refer the jury to this statement by the Pope: One of the most seminal moments of Pope Francis' papacy thus far was his response to a question about gay priests in 2013. His answer: "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/01/pope-francis-gay-marriage_n_7484106.html

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:34 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This has got to be the most collapse-to-floor-laughing-out-loud alert I have ever had the misfortune to read. Every single point raised by the post in question is incontrovertibly VALID. Your "Who am I to judge" Pope equated recognizing the right of gays to adopt children to "discrimination against children", and proclaimed gay marriage was tantamount in its effect to genocide. Frankly, I think the poster's response is pretty goddamned tame, all things considered. Now, kindly stop wasting our time.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: downright nasty but I would leave it
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This issue brings about a lot of passions. And it's hard here on DU when the very subjects ("politics and religion&quot are part and parcel of the site. There are many non-believers and religiously unaffiliated here and I hope that everyone can exhibit decorum but accept the passion.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Heresy
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Harsh but not a hide IMO.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, it's everything the alerter said it is. However, I've read as just as bad or worse and those were allowed to stand. Further, the alerter should have answered the offending post, not call for a jury block.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Sid

of Blank Frank, this bigoted, hypocritical cult leader, being feted by people who are supposed to be Liberal and "progressive"! Has DU taken leave of its senses?

So what if he's a Head of State?
Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Thatcher, Franco et al were all heads of states. Does that mean that they were worthy of being grovelled before?

I hear he once washed the feet of a disabled person and drives his own car. Wow, make him Leader Of The Planet, do! Who cares that he's a hateful old bigot?

The "Head of State" argument won't work if he's delving into religious intolerance and bigotry.

I recognize that The Vatican is a theocracy. They're basically Iran in different clothes, with Frankie as the Ayatollah.

I just happen to think that theocrats don't deserve a glowing welcome from a secular government.

Sid

Just as Catholic bishops do. They have to swear an oath of allegiance to the pope, who is a head of state, yet they're not required to register as agents of a foreign government as other people do.

Seriously.

Spend some time with your son, instead of creating dozens and dozens of DU accounts.

Sid

Can you imagine a prez candidate today spending a night at a homeless shelter?

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-12/news/mn-4293_1_jerry-brown

I recall he also spend nights in the homes of working class people.

Who is anti-abortion,anti-LGBTQIA, anti-Women, promotes Child abuse and... Oh, wait, we have about 12 of them right now.

It's GOP members that will boycott his speech.

Time to schedule another right wing gaggle on the Sunday shows!

I thought, WTH, why does the article start off running down Dems.

The article does not...that part is way down in the article. And while this "CNN Newsline...a Time Warner Company" overall seems to run down Dems and Liberals, at least it included this:

"Many observers expect Francis to implicitly rebuke Republicans -- some of whom deny a link between human behavior and climate change, a topic which he addressed in an encyclical in June -- for their reluctance to tackle global warming. The Pope may also wade into the raging debate about immigration in the United States, after warning earlier this year that nations that close the door on migrants should seek God's forgiveness."

hate the poor...nice try by the writer to deflect from the crazy GOP reaction to a religious leader.

Guess the writer at the local newspaper has not been paying much attention or is just another RW fool with a pen.

like a Republican. He yaps about economics and environment without actually doing anything about it which is just like a Democrat.

The Democrats who are cheering for him, here and in Congress, are not doing themselves any favors with millions of voters who are tired of the atavism, bigotry and misogyny of the Pope's politics and activism. Coming to Congress is a political act. If he speaks against my rights, those who endorsed and allowed that will pay a political price. I will not support them.

Anybody not a religious (fuck religious, Christian) figure who made the totality of his statements would be reviled as a contemptible loathsome bigot of the highest order around here.

despise him.'

on abortion and gay marriage. But I"ll take it. Better than what previous popes were. And that does show up Congress and the politicians.

I'll be watching to see if Boehner cries.

K&R!

OS

Because that says a lot about him, and it says a lot about the establishment wings of both parties.

now its turning that instituion on its ear.

If it's for a photo-op, then it's been a success!

The Pope chose the honest people. He chose wisely.

no matter how much "progress" is made

as a real Christian should regarding most issues. Good job for speaking with your considerable influence against the horrors of greedy capitalists!