pretty damn shameful

Speak for yourself, I'm far more tolerant that that homophobic misogynist.

This is code talk for allowing Catholics and their hospitals to
deny women reproductive healthcare, and for allowing
the refusal of gay marriage ...

... meaning that he is seriously interfering with the idea of
separation of church and state.

So, the righties in this country might well need a schooling
on the need for action in regard to climate change and
poverty, but a schooling in the abrogation of hard-won human
rights for women and gays... hell no!

Pope Frank needs to stay out of the war on women and gays.

Period.

He may have a better PR team making him look progressive but he's no better than his predecessor when it comes to preaching intolerance.

Compared to Pope Pius XII (the Pope I grew up) with, he is Jesus, Divine Mother,
Sai Baba, John Lennon , Lady Gaga and Rage Against the Machine.

This is a long SLOW historical evolution.
The young are impatient as they should be. Change moves too slow for us when we are young. When we are old and move slower our selves we can see the tortuous progress being made.

Now if he could incorporate a little Run DMC and make all that bling work for him it would be more fun.

He ain't perfect. In time he just may bring them along. We have no idea what he is up against. The very core and guardians of toxic paternalism, misogyny and homophobia by the most closeted ( outside of the Republican Congress). By choosing St. Francis as his Spirit Animal he begins on VERY radical footing. We will have to watch and see how this goes.

for this institution. MUCH harder than turning the Queen Mary

was watching Looney Tunes when I realized I was missing the Pope's visit this morning.

Could you please elaborate? Thank you.

Unlike anything you would expect from a Pope. Instead of the typical social divisiveness and disregard for the planet, he really stuck us in the eye on science and civil rights. Shame on us. He's right, and I'm an atheist.

That's part of his message and you say he's right. I have to assume you agree with the whole thing since you speak in broad and passionate terms.

This is why LGBT still have to watch our backs. Kim Davis is a Democrat.

your world would be very, very quiet.


But it doesn't seem to matter how often people state that they don't agree with him on those issues, it gets paraded out any time he says something positive. Now why is that?

He did say all people, regardless of sexual identification must be included.

Ok, ok, the church itself doesn't see it that way, but if you really want to fight, talk to them. I am not the church, and I am fully aware that this forum is strictly supportive of all people.

I will not fight over a non-problem.

That WAS the Pope's visit!

Zip! Bang! Boing!!!! Wah-wah-wahhhhhh....

proclamation that women have autonomy over their own bodies.

Of course not.

and don't get me started on that Paul guy........


1. Francis is very influential in some circles

2. He is much better than the last two guys

3. Some insider baseball - he is up against some tough opposition within the Church - he seems to be dragging it forward as fast as he can.

For what it's worth - I am a cradle Roman Catholic, very active in the Church, taught Sunday school for many many years. Several years ago I joined the Episcopal Church largely over the rights of women, the rights of people of all sexualities and the role of the priests
and bishops. I couldn't wait any longer for change in the Roman Church, but I can see that Francis is a breath of fresh air.

I can't believe some of the comments I've read about the Pope recently. He is light years ahead of his predecessors and has brought considerable change in a very short period of time, but he still has to work within the framework of the church to some degree. Positive change comes incrementally. Before people jump all over one man, they should acknowledge what he has done already.

I saw similar attitudes about Obama when he'd been president for five seconds. Now we can look back and see his accomplishments in a clearer light.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]On which of these issue does Pope Francisco differ from Pope Benedictus in any way?

1. Opposition to War


2. Opposition to the death penalty


3. Opposition to the Contraception


4. Opposition to abortion


5. Support for human welfare and the poor


6. Opposition to gay rights


7. Tepid support of evolution


8. Support of Climate Change science


9. Opposition to women's rights


10. Protecting Child abusers


11. Opposing ending priest celebicy


12. Support Female Priest/cardinals/bishops

and Pope Gregory IX!

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Paul was a misogynistic homophobe.

1. All the more reason to criticize him for his stance on Women's and LGBTQ rights.

2. In what way? He has not changed a single policy. Not the churches liberal views on things like evolution, helping the poor, pacificism, opposition to the death penalty, climate change or the like. Not the churches conservative views on things like contraception, abortion, women's & LGBTQ rights and death with dignity.

3. He is the pope, and he has done NOTHING in two years other than talk and empty gestures.

He is not a breath of fresh air, he is a PR spin doctor.[/font]

progressive and even use his first trip here to drive home such serious matters.

The church is coming along: Look at how fast same-sex marriage is being accepted in many states. I think he gets some of the credit for that, whether or not you like the church.

for the American acceptance of same-sex marriage? The Catholics have campaigned vigorously against it. Francis did nothing to stop the American bishops.

Credit? WTF??

Talk about being born a few centuries too early.

Yes, eventually slavemasters and slave traders were defeated after an incredibly bloody and traumatizing fight between those who opposed it and those who supported it, but in what universe would anyone expect that culture to be at the vanguard of civil rights...?

It's nice to be surprised occasionally, on the other hand.

especially in the Renaissance? The inquisitions.


No one's free of some kind of tainted pasts.

And give a message that was 100% in agreement with everything everyone wishes he would say? If not, fuck him and his his efforts to increase climate awareness and tolerance.

You are either with us or you are against us.




I would say a step in the right direction is a first step.

This pope is a fucking miracle. In my wildest dreams I never imagined we would see his like in my lifetime.

And I'm about as pro LGBT and women's rights as it's possible for a straight male third-generation atheist to be.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Same goes with people criticising people like Rick Santorum and Pat Robertson!!! They have liberal ideas too! Like Santorum raising the minimal wage!

But everyone demands 100% agreement!



There is no step in the right direction. The Pope hasn't changed one policy. Not even something as minor as contraception that would save numerous lives.[/font]

Hm.

Said the man in 11th century clothes...



Head of an bullying organization run by only men and that promotes ancient superstitions.

I'm only a back door Catholic also known as Lutheran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but 40% of our populace is behind the pope on these issues.

Incredible.

and whether any of the gop lunatics will pull a joe wilson

which I don't think he did.