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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:05 AM Sep 2015

OK, a point of agreement about Uber?

I like finding common ground. Do all sides of the Uber debate agree that Uber should pay workers' comp? (I'd add that to 1099 "employers" in general... Yes, even you when you hire a roofer.) Maybe it should be split between the hirer and the 1099, I don't know.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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OK, a point of agreement about Uber? (Original Post) Recursion Sep 2015 OP
Licensed roofing contractors will generally carry their own insurance Orrex Sep 2015 #1
Uber's insurance does cover the drivers from pick up to drop off Recursion Sep 2015 #2
Well, then that's on the driver Orrex Sep 2015 #8
It's a legal point treestar Sep 2015 #3
And I'd like all hirers of contractors to cover that (nt) Recursion Sep 2015 #4
Then no one would ever hire contractors Orrex Sep 2015 #10
It would be folded in to homeowners' policies (nt) Recursion Sep 2015 #14
So the homeowner pays more each month even if they never need a contractor? Orrex Sep 2015 #21
Yup. All of these suggestions are that Recursion Sep 2015 #22
Regardless, it should be the contractor (or contracting firm's) responsibility Orrex Sep 2015 #29
Uber is a cancer in its current form philosslayer Sep 2015 #5
Would you apply those same rules to cab companies? Recursion Sep 2015 #6
Would you want those regulations apply to all taxi firms, not just Uber? (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2015 #7
I don't see how it could be banned in a free society treestar Sep 2015 #9
Then they might as well sell alcohol and cigarettes in their Ubermobiles Orrex Sep 2015 #12
I suppose, but we probably don't catch everyone treestar Sep 2015 #18
They could increase the penalties Orrex Sep 2015 #28
Don't blame Uber for only getting one star snooper2 Sep 2015 #11
Uber should not exist. Period. It's obvious now that DU'ers are only Progressive when it benefits KittyWampus Sep 2015 #13
Will you close all cab companies, or just Uber? Recursion Sep 2015 #16
OK. So what's the incentive for taxis to do that? whatthehey Sep 2015 #20
What? Nitram Sep 2015 #31
I've worked as an independent contractor left-of-center2012 Sep 2015 #15
I thnk Uber should be fully regulated like any cab company. eom MohRokTah Sep 2015 #17
They are fully regulated like any fleet car service Recursion Sep 2015 #19
I don't believe that is true for all jurisdictions. eom MohRokTah Sep 2015 #23
I fully admit I don't know every jurisdiction on this Recursion Sep 2015 #24
I know Chicago, for example, is scrambling because Uber is unregulated here. MohRokTah Sep 2015 #25
I've had several felons as taxi drivers, personally Recursion Sep 2015 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author MohRokTah Sep 2015 #27
(Omaha) Felons, domestic violence, DWI, limit on citations and accidents, pass a physical, ... Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #30

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
1. Licensed roofing contractors will generally carry their own insurance
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:10 AM
Sep 2015

At least the reputable ones. And this insurance will cover them for injuries and lost work.


It would seem appropriate to require this of Uber drivers and/or the contracting company.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
2. Uber's insurance does cover the drivers from pick up to drop off
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:13 AM
Sep 2015

The problem is from "ping" to pick up. Also I'd imagine a driver "cruising" pre-ping would get dropped if Allstate could prove that's what she's doing.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
8. Well, then that's on the driver
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:17 AM
Sep 2015

When I worked in sales, the company with which I contracted admitted no liability for injury incurred on the way to meetings, for instance. But if I'd been injured during a company function and/on company property, they'd have been on the hook for it.

The same would seem to apply here, no?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
3. It's a legal point
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:13 AM
Sep 2015

There are some grey areas, but if you are an independent contractor, you have to cover that yourself. It's like you are self employed.

You see it a lot. For example, there are nursing registries, where, as a nurse, you can take shifts at your discretion at different places and work when he/she wants rather than at a specific place for a specific shift.

So if it covered Uber it would have to cover these other things.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
10. Then no one would ever hire contractors
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:19 AM
Sep 2015

Barring some ad hoc insurance policy that would go into effect and be billable only while the roofer is on my roof, the cost would be outrageously prohibitive.


If the 1099 hair stylist stabs himself with scissors while he's cutting my hair, why should it be up to me to pay his workers' comp?

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
21. So the homeowner pays more each month even if they never need a contractor?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:31 AM
Sep 2015

Sounds like a hundred million sweet handouts for the insurance providers.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
22. Yup. All of these suggestions are that
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:34 AM
Sep 2015

Insurance always does well under progressive regulations.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
29. Regardless, it should be the contractor (or contracting firm's) responsibility
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:46 AM
Sep 2015

Someone will object that the contractor will simply pass this cost onto the customer, and of course they will, but then the customer is paying a one-time charge for a service that they're getting, rather than a cost-in-perpetuity for a service they might not ever use.

 

philosslayer

(3,076 posts)
5. Uber is a cancer in its current form
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:15 AM
Sep 2015

And should be banned. It should only be allowed to exist if drivers are 1099 employees paid at least a minimum wage, including worker's comp, and any and all protections provided to a 1099 employee. Uber should pay all local taxes that local taxi companies pay, and be subject to all regulations local taxi companies must comply with.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. Would you apply those same rules to cab companies?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:16 AM
Sep 2015

I think DU doesn't quite get how medallion cabs work.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
9. I don't see how it could be banned in a free society
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:19 AM
Sep 2015

and trying to enforce laws against it would be hopeless.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
12. Then they might as well sell alcohol and cigarettes in their Ubermobiles
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:21 AM
Sep 2015

How could such sales be banned in a free society? Trying to enforce laws against it would be hopeless.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
18. I suppose, but we probably don't catch everyone
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:29 AM
Sep 2015

who illegally sells alcohol and cigarettes, so adding another set of behaviors to those which we are already trying to enforce - we already have so many laws and there are only so many hours per day. Maybe if we legalized marijuana and other such drugs. There just seems to be a point where we have to realize legislation doesn't always solve a problem. Every car with more than one person in it could be engaging in the unlawful behavior.

and we've seen the screaming about the NSA - the ordinary government would have to have access to the internet to prevent it, I suppose.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
28. They could increase the penalties
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:44 AM
Sep 2015

Operating an unlicensed Ubermobile could result in heavy fines, voiding of car insurance policies, longterm loss of license and suspension of vehicle registration.

I'm not persuaded by the argument that the day is too short, because that reasoning could excuse a wide range of illegal activity.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. Uber should not exist. Period. It's obvious now that DU'ers are only Progressive when it benefits
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:22 AM
Sep 2015

them personally.

Medicaid for all= good because it helps me personally afford health care

Uber and AirB&B= good because it helps me personally get cheaper rides/rooms while screwing over legitimate businesses, local communities, local/state/federal tax revenues.

If Taxi services are so bad, then they need to reform and modernize their business model. Doing it via a Libertarian free-for-all is so screwed up it makes me barking mad.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
16. Will you close all cab companies, or just Uber?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:26 AM
Sep 2015

Are you under the impression that cab companies are better to their drivers?

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
20. OK. So what's the incentive for taxis to do that?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:30 AM
Sep 2015

And why haven't they done so in the last, say, 30 years when taxis have with very very few exceptions become monstrously overpriced, hopelessly unreliable and with all the customer care of a DMV office?

Nitram

(22,822 posts)
31. What?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:57 PM
Sep 2015

" It's obvious now that DU'ers are only Progressive when it benefits them personally."

Wampus, did you conduct a survey of the entire DU membership to come to that striking conclusion?

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
15. I've worked as an independent contractor
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:25 AM
Sep 2015

Had to carry my own insurance and pay my own Social Security, taxes, etc.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
19. They are fully regulated like any fleet car service
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:30 AM
Sep 2015

As they cannot accept street hails, they are not "taxis".

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
24. I fully admit I don't know every jurisdiction on this
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:36 AM
Sep 2015

Though I have been trying to learn. What I said was true for Philly, NYC, Atlanta, DC, Boston, SFO, and LA. You probably see a pattern there. I can't intelligently speak to Uber's impact anywhere but large coastal US cities (and large coastal Indian cities).

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
25. I know Chicago, for example, is scrambling because Uber is unregulated here.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:37 AM
Sep 2015

I wouldn't use Uber anywhere as they cut corners. A felon who used a vehicle in the commission of their felony, for example, can become an Uber driver as shown on CNN.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
26. I've had several felons as taxi drivers, personally
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:39 AM
Sep 2015

Maybe Chicago forbids felons from driving taxis, though.

Response to Recursion (Reply #26)

Omaha Steve

(99,660 posts)
30. (Omaha) Felons, domestic violence, DWI, limit on citations and accidents, pass a physical, ...
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:19 AM
Sep 2015

Uber drivers get around most of that here.

I used to issue cab licenses for the Omaha Police Dept.

OS
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