Any debt that has already been paid back with 20% more than was borrowed should be forgiven. Why is it treated like a mortgage on a house?

They are in much need of some regulation.

And student debt is just the obscene tip of the iceberg.

Yesterday (and probably a hundred times before) I read some right wing comment on another board saying we should only give student loans for proven money making majors. Others say we should stop requiring students to take "unrelated" courses.

Apparently, college is only about getting a good paying job, not about getting a good education. Too many have that attitude. I don't think college should be a gloried vocational school.

I majored in a field as an undergrad in the early 1960s for which there was a lot of demand. No jobs in that field now -- or next to no jobs.

Teaching was a sure thing back then. The demand could not be satisfied. Now teachers are treated like dirt, and can't get jobs.

There are no sure-thing majors. Best policy is to get a broad background in liberal arts because, with that, you can learn anything.

"Oh, so you are getting a liberal arts degree? You'll never make any money as an artist! You don't need a degree to dip a crucifix in urine!"

Liberal arts are things like English and history.

Fine arts is fine art, like music, music history, music performance, or painting or art history or sculpture or photography.

I am a math teacher, and I cannot get a job! Why? I suspect that it's because I'm 56 and I have a Master's--which makes me more expensive to hire.

I have one more retirement account that I can cash in. After that, I will be homeless or I will exercise my Kevorkian option.

I find it most frustrating that I am fully capable and WILLING to work to support myself, yet--due primarily to the vile corporatists who've derailed our global economy--I cannot get a job. My students routinely tell me I make learning math fun and easy. WHY can't I have the opportunity to teach?!?!

Really, will anyone miss those of us who must depart this planet rather than live vulnerably on the streets?

And the bible says that all debts should be canceled every 7 years...
I love how they selectively use the bible to stone gays and people they disagree with, but their greed and asshattery is perfectly acceptable, even though the bible says it is not...

Or that stuff about marrying your rapist or eating shellfish.

But he really meant that stuff about teh gay sex.

I know there are some people that would take issue with my tone, but it seems awfully convenient to me that the parts that God really meant just so happen to coincide with their political/social beliefs.

I learned that, amazingly enough, when I converted to Catholicism. LOL

because otherwise... wtf?

We can use the moral sense we got from the book to pick out the parts where god clearly didn't mean what he said.

Woohoo (sarcasm)

I didn't know you couldn't get Medicare or Social Security until you paid off your loans. Is that really the case?

...and I don't know if it is true, unless enacted recently. I know people with old student loans who are on social security.

The doctor has to say that you are essentially incapable of doing anything at all. ie If you can go to a sheltered workshop and put stickers on some product in an assembly line you may not be eligible.
It goes back to the SS definition of disability as "unable to work." When it's not so much unable to work, but not fitting into the American employment model. Most notably, inadequate healthcare coverage and strict scheduling.

I was recently diagnosed with an autoimmune disease as well as a connective tissue disease and a neuromuscular disease all at the same time. I used to work in the Gulf and Atlantic on ships at sea. I'm only 36 and I've been told I'm useless from now on. My leg muscles are wasting away and in one month I lost 50 lbs.

The student loan people can suck my balls. Excuse the debt or not, I don't care. At least in death my family won't be burdened with it.

And I'm so sorry that you're going through so much. I know what a nightmare the bureaucracy is. People think not working is so easy. It most definitely is work to be disabled and deal with all of the details that go with it.

And so much of GD is relatively small stuff these days. I'm usually in The Lounge unless I get really bored and venture over here to find the (p)outrage du jour.

except for child support and tax liens, your social security CAN and WILL be garnished for student loan debt if you've defaulted or aren't making the full payments, no matter how small the payment or if it's your only income. You really do sell your soul for life when you get student loans. Sickening and disgusting.

The most out of touch Android on the planet.

I could have taken the easy way and gone with the really rich couple, but decided I'd prefer to have the alcoholic dad and deadbeat mom (yeah, there is a such a thing). I figured it would help me build character.

Just curious since you brought it up.

And not much bills.

It's just that if loans are written off for learning a lesson, taxpayers should return personal gambling losses and capital losses on business deals gone wrong, too.

I have no problem with people living up their contracts. One might even say it's the foundation of a civilized society those students are trying to benefit from.

and do think that student loans should be wiped out. Also those who have debt because of medical expenses. It's wrong that families can be thrown into bankruptcy for simply being unlucky enough to have a relative with a serious disease or who has been in an accident. And while we're at it those with underwater mortgages should have their principle reduced. I'm ok with not being reimbursed for my loans because this type of jubilee would benefit me in many ways. More people would be able to service their loans and pay taxes, reducing the need for higher taxes. More people would be able to afford to go to movies, out to eat, take vacations, etc etc etc improving the economy as a whole. As the economy improves from the ground up it would mean greater job security for all workers, heck maybe even a return to the heady days of annual raises. Jubilee is the only humane answer to the global economic crisis. Austerity is the path that will punish the working class for the mistakes of wall street and lead to massive unrest and potentially war. I know which path I'd choose.

They can't just erase student loan debt without going back retroactively and repaying all of us who worked hard to pay our debts off.

I work full time plus do freelance whenever possible. I missed out on the housing bubble and crash. (Maybe a good thing!) I'll never own a home. I don't live beyond my means. I'm cool with that. I'm just not that hung up on getting repaid because if the economy keeps limping along with so many burdened by insane debt or gets worse the next job lost might be mine. Or it might be a reason for those championing austerity to take away what little is left of social programs and that would also hurt me and you. You will grow old. You will require medical care. Would you really resist helping others unless you are also repaid and risk that?

it really works.
thanks for stating it so well.

she couldn't pay that shit off with 50 jobs. bully for you for paying off your loans in timely fashion, but try and show some fucking empathy for fucks sake. it's not like she's a deadbeat. this is usury, plain and simple.

We don't know what they are....cause she isn't telling us, but the only way that would happen is if she stops paying for an extended period of time in the middle and had penalties. I know, I know.....realities of how loans work probably won't go over well here, but what did I expect getting into this argument.....

Just another example of how those of us who work hard and pay off our loans are punished for sacrificing so much to do things right.

If they wipe out student loans, no one will ever pay back another student loan again.....so that really isn't a viable solution.

Why don't we all just stop paying our phone bills and gas bills as well???? Natural gas is in the Earth for free, so why should we all be slaves to the natural gas company for our god given rights?!?!?! hahahahah (sarcasm)

I think it's great you had the wherewithal to be able to pay back your debt.
But to come down from your horse and tell us that shes LYING is just wrong.
I have a student loan that I am behind on.
I did what all the "bootstrap" yelling people said to do.
I went back to school after being injured at work.
I was unaware that the 'school' wouldn't prepare me for ANY job in the field until I finished
( close to the top in my classes too)
I expected that if the feds gave money to a school they would AT LEAST check out
hiring rates after graduation.
Oh, and the school closed and renamed itself and is STILL doing the same thing.
The new meme is to start your own biz, with NO experience, against folks
that have YEARS of it.
I no longer work in the field, I couldn't find anything except low paid
contract work.
But I STILL owe 36K and no end in sight,realistically. (unless I find a winning lotto ticket,
as I cant afford to BUY one)

I, too, have paid as much as I can afford (regularly), but still fell behind as my kids will eat before I send more money
to service a loan that did NOTHING for me at all.

So think before you get caught up in this 'argument' again.
Maybe there are other circumstances behind peoples stories.

Actually, I had loans for my undergraduate degree and my graduate degree, and paid them all off. It took years, and the payments were the same as buying a new car (as a matter of fact, my mother remarked "You could have bought a new car!" when I told her how much my graduate degree was costing). However, my loans all predated 1995, and I took longer to get my graduate degree so that I could work full time to pay off my loans while I was getting my degree.

I have many friends who are struggling under the burden of large school loans. The lenders tout their 'low interest rates,' then they hit you with ginormous monthly payments. Most young people are not savvy enough to ask about their monthly payments. In today's economy, if you have to pay $400/mo on your school loans, you're not likely to have sufficient income to live alone, or to acquire furniture or household accoutrements.

How many of us will be homeless or destitute in the coming two years? I know I personally don't have many options, after I cash in my last retirement account. I'll be homeless or gone from this planet...

solution anyone here ever mention is to just cancel all of the student loans. Sounds like most people in this situation needed to take a basic personal finance class or maybe shouldn't have gone to college at all, because they obviously didn't understand what a "loan" was and that it was something you would have to pay back.

That's why this problem will never gain widespread traction. First, is the problem of all of us who did what we were supposed to do and sacrificed to pay our loans back, and the second is that their only solution is for them to just cancel all the loans, rather than proposing better, more realistic solutions.

now you're tangentially alluding to a bigger part of the hidden mass of this controversial iceberg: fully 40% of US adults are functionally illiterate. Furthermore, the vast majority of the math students I've taught lack BASIC math skills, and must struggle to 'memorize' college algebra so they can pass this mandatory gateway course.

And, you are mistaken that I have even the remotest concern with "the problem of all of us who did what we were supposed to do and sacrificed to pay our loans back." I am concerned because our young people ARE pursuing college degrees to obtain better paying jobs, and they are leaving school with record levels of debt, the repayment of which will render them barely solvent for decades.

(Oh, and I have to agree with others who have observed that the "I've paid my dues, now you pay yours!" meme is far more common among conservatives du jour, and surprising to see here on DU.)

These post of yours in this thread expose your selfishness and total lack of empathy.

On edit: Damn s key

to make sure I haven't stumbled onto Free Republic. Seriously, how can so called liberals and progressives be such right-wing and embrace the Ayn Rand philosophy of I've got mine fuck everyone else?

worked his ASS OFF two jobs for 5 years paying his loans. And he is a huge liberal. So drop that crap. People were not forced to borrow money!

"I did it, so can everyone else." How about you focus some of your anger on the parasites in the loan industry instead of students, that is unless you aren't too blinded by the the worship of the rights of contract and property.

understand that people make decisions and have to live with them? If you are not sick or injured, pay off the loan.

Lets bail out ever home owner also?

That would have been a far better use of that kind of money than giving to a bunch of worthless parasites who ruined the economy.

Furthermore,I don't accept private property as valid. It is based on theft, either of labor or resources or both. It is immoral, therefore I don't accept as valid the institutions that have arisen to support private property and capitalism, such as banks. So, I have 0 sympathy for anyone who continues to support the criminal merger of capitalism and government that is going on in this country, at the expense of the poor and working class. You can dress it up in your moralism of "work ethic and personal responsibility' but, your morals are no better than mine. Education should be a right of everyone, not something that is used to make a profit for a bunch of worthless parasites in the financial sector.

money for an education and then decides they don't like the debt!

I paid off my loans. And it was a pain in the ass. But I knew what I was getting into.

Quite a lot of people defaulted on their mortgages precisely because they lost their jobs and couldn't find adequate work. How come there was no help for them? The same is true of large student debt. If the person came down with a major medical illness, that's another way they could become overwhelmed with debt, especially if their health insurance policy has huge deductibles and large co-pays.

For many people, student loan debt is the only way they can afford a university education, and it's getting worse every year. It doesn't take much to see that there is a problem when employers give 2% pay raises a year, while tuition can and often does go higher than 5% in a year. After a while, the gap gets very large.

I have student loans - funds borrowed by me and paid to the college, to pay for the classes I took. I wanted to go to college, I understood the risks and benefits of going to college, and I understood the costs. If they hadn't loaned me the money I wouldn't have been able to go, so of course I should repay the loans.

In the same way, I bought a house years ago and am still paying on the mortgage. The bank that I am paying actually came up with the lump sum of cash to pay off the former owner of the house, because I wanted to buy the house, I didn't have enough money to buy it on my own, and I agreed to pay them back over time for helping me out. I don't see any kind of logic leading me, as an adult, to expect that they wouldn't need their money back and I should just take the house and keep it, and not pay for it.

Go to ignore, go directly to ignore. Do not pass GO; do not collect $200.

Your denial is vast and, apparently, insurmountable.

Odd that we often predicate what other people should do on what we ourselves did, regardless of the lack of any direct correlation.

That being said, I worked through college, I paid off my debt, and have zero problems with loan forgiveness. Realizing many of the problems associated with the out-of-proportion and ever-increasing cost of education do indeed exist, I'm compelled to perceive that loan forgiveness is merely acknowledging the short end of the stick so many students have received.

Today, people are lucky to have one job.

Braggart.

but I still believe that people who were suckered into bad mortgages should get relief. I have cheered those individuals who fought off their foreclosures and were awarded the house free and clear.

One thing I've learned over the years that while I don't get to directly benefit from *every* relief program, I get to directly benefit from the ones I desperately need to. And I get indirect benefits from the rest.

When we help those who got bad mortgages and foreclosed on, we help our own home values and our neighborhoods.

When we help those who took out bad student loans, we free them to spend the money they earn on things that really can improve their lives, and boost demand and the economy for all of us, versus usury interest for the 1% leeches.

I took out student loans for a job degree. I was going to sell my home to go cash, in which case I would have dropped out because I ended up hating the program. But the housing market collapsed, and I've been unable to sell my house in 3 years of trying. And my house is losing value as fast as my student loan interest is piling up.

In the meantime, despite hating the program, I worked my ass off and graduated summa cum laude. However, the HR rep I spoke to before entering the program lied about the salary range in the local hospital. Bottom line: I make 25% less/hour, and don't get enough hours work to live on, let alone pay off the student loans. And I hate, hate, hate the job as much as I hated the school program.

The income based repayment program is the *only* thing keeping me out of bankruptcy today. Student loan forgiveness would help free me from this trap and enable me to have some kind of future other than grinding away at a job I hate until I die. Because in this situation, my motivation becomes die sooner rather than later. In which case, the loans won't get paid off anyway.

I paid off my loans too but why should I get paid again? The deal was I got the money to go to college and I pay back that money. I kept my part of the bargain, they kept their party of the bargain.

Because someone else has different circumstances and even though they are paying, they can't keep up, does not mean I should get paid back for paying off my loans.

I don't believe the entire world should suffer and never be allowed to be forgiven their debt because I happened to be able to pay off my debt. That is just ridiculous. Should I be paid back for paying off my medical debt because someone goes to a free clinic? Should I be given all the money I spent on food back because some poor family gets free food from the food bank?

Did you know that at one time Bill Gates got FREE computer time (back when he was in high school, computer time cost). While I had to pay my school to allow me to use their computer. Should I get paid back? Michelle Bachman got farm subsidies for her father's farm. He used the money to build barns. I bought my property with a barn already on it. Should I get paid back for the added cost on my land for the value of the barn?

Because someone else gets a break does not mean I should get reimbursed because I didn't get the exact same break.

You and I were lucky to be able pay off our school debt but some people are NOT as lucky.

Maybe pay a bit more than that.

Weren't you also one of the people praising that Harvard grad with a six figure salary as an example to all the poor people on how to pay off a student loan quickly?

Step 1: Get six figure salary
Step 2: Pay off debt

SIMPLE!!!

No, I think you have me confused with someone else.

And paying over 120 dollars per month doesn't require a 6 figure salary.

If she'd paid 200 per month (another 80 bucks more or about 1 cup of starbucks every other day) she'd have paid in over 55,000 by now. Wiping out about half of what she has left. More actually because that would have taken out a good chunk of the interest.

The amount she borrowed, the amount paid, and the amount still owed-- that seems reasonable to you?

Your suggestion to just 'pay more each month' seems like Romney's 'hey, just borrow it from your parents' line.

and how debts work.

Yes colleges are too expensive. But she wasn't forced to take the loan.

And as someone paying far more in student loans I don't have much sympathy for people who paid the minimum for a generation then discovered that hey, it's not all magically gone.

you've judged this woman without knowing a damn thing about her circumstance. you'd be surprised to learn that $120 a month is quite a bit to some people.

stub your toe in the middle of the night: deserving of compassion.

Complaining that your toe hurts because you keep kicking this brick wall: you're an idiot, stop that.

Do you know her life? Do you know her thoughts? No, you know nothing about her. Try having some empathy, I know that is hard for some people, but seriously, try it.

that's a bad decision.

Perhaps she couldn't afford to pay the minimum? Maybe she had medical problems and couldn't work or was stuck paying those bills. Perhaps she couldn't find a decent job in her field, god knows it's happening to enough people who got supposedly good degrees. The minimum was 120 a month you say. To plenty of people that is a lot of money, it can make a difference between whether they have gas in their car or food on their plate. I know people who have been in circumstances like that. Once again you know nothing of her circumstances, so try having some empathy if that concept isn't completely foreign to you.

not student loans.

And she couldn't find a job in her field in 23 years? Seems like she chose her major poorly then.

If you went to college and are now in your 40s *only* able to earn 120 bucks per month surplus you have done something terribly wrong.

for a college graduate to earn more than minimum wage?

I don't think *I* am in the one in a dream world.

yes the economy is terrible "right now".

But she's been paying these off for 23 years according to her own statements.

"Right now" hasn't lasted for 23 years.

Do you acknowledge that the last 23 years has consisted of more than just the last 4 years?

So now it's a race thing?

Your argument has gone from silly (the last 4 years covered the last 23 years!) to outright bizarre (loans only affect people who look different from you!).

She could be a teabagger for all we know.

There is only one way to arrive at her situation: underpay the terms of the loan.

Depending on how she got in that situation, I might have empathy. There can certainly be unfortunate circumstances beyond our control. Then again, I might not. There are really dumb things some people do, when they should know better.

I'm going to say 'insufficient information' at this point.

Going to college so you can provide for yourself and your family=" kicking this brick wall: you're an idiot, stop that"

This is the shit I hear from my rw inlaws. I know sociopathy is all the rage now-a-days, but do we really need it here?

cant you just shut up about how you paid off yours and try and understand that there are things that
put people behind?

White, just stop dude, he isnt even hearing you.
Your bringing up the BP over it.

could you possibly conceive of an individual who took on debt and then was irresponsible in paying it off and thus ended up with more debt.

Is such a scenario even possible or is it cruel to even imagine it?

Although I think she should have paid more and should now pay more on her loans; I think she did not know the interest rate. I think if you ask most college students the interest rate on there student loans most would tell you they have no idea.

And then that comes back to her arguing that she was a victim of her own ignorance, rather than an evil system out to steal souls.

Debts that can't be repaid won't be repaid.

You may be mad, sad and angry. Oh well.

And sometimes when student loans are consolidated the terms don't allow one to increase payments. It all depends on the terms....

What happens is you get out of school and they want payments right away. If it takes some time to find a job one has to defer their loan and it increases by leaps and bounds due to interest and non payment. So people consolidate usually into a twenty year loan with insane terms to try to get a handle on things and go for the lowest monthly payment. When their circumstances improve banks often refuse to renegotiate the terms. My loan (from the early 90s) was at 8 percent and citibank refused to let another bank or even the government take over my loan at a lower rate. So while people with mortgages were refinancing into lower rates all through the late 90s and early 2000s many students did not have this option. The banks know they have the upper hand because these loans cannot be discharged and have every intention of squeezing all they can from every student loan.

I would really love to see someone compare terms of a car loan to a student loan. I had 27,000 in student loans which was less than many of my friend's car loans from the same time period. They had paid off or moved on several times before my student loan was taken care of. Gotta love a society that favors buying an expensive car over getting an education.

You know what kills me though? In order to qualify for financial aid in college one has to have gotten great grades in school or excelled in a certain area. Their reward for doing well? Twenty years of debt. It's crazy. We should have more scholarships available for the gifted, lower education costs and not have private banks providing student loans. The government should do this directly if at all.

This is what 20 years of GOP majority in D.C. has wrought. In the 60's and 70's there were grants and low-rate loans.

Imagine the future if this keeps up.

Oh, wait, Romney's advice is 'Borrow the money for college from your parents.'

If they can't, Boehner's advice is, 'If your parents didn't work hard enough to pay for your education, you were born to be a ditch digger. So get to it.'

Oh, excuse me. The future is now.

This highlights the need for people to understand how compounding interest works.

no one else seems to have done the math. They just saw: poor woman, paying off this debt for 23 years and she ended up owing more? How is that possible!?!?

I have friends who have had stints where they were out of work for 3-6 months. 3-6 months of a deferred loan with interest accruing is what makes the amount more easily in no time at all. Imagine a year without work. Many unemployed since 2008 have taken that long to find a new job.

2012 - 23 years = 1989.

I seem to recall some good years in there.

Because there were some good years in there 89-2000 being far better than 2000-2012 you think it's not possible to end up owing more than what one originally took out?

I pointed out that her problem predates "this economy".

You can blame the last 4 years or so for some of her problems I guess. But that doesn't do much to explain away the other 19 years.

"You can blame the last 4 years or so for some of her problems I guess."

that you insist on making it about "this economy" when it is a problem 23 years in the making.

Can you admit that 23 years covers more than "this economy"?

Or are you so hopelessly mired in your argument that you are unable to make that acknowledgement.

Confirmed.

Stat.

10-4

illness or unemployment that prevents them from making their payments. The interest accrues on your loans while payment is deferred. So, for example, when you graduate from college, you have already accrued a lot of interest on the loans you took out your first years.

Student loans are not a good deal at all.

If I recall correctly, during those "good years," interest rates were high. I paid 7.5-9.5% interest on my student loans when I first got them.

Student loans are not a good deal. They are not even a fair deal.

to have a secure and productive nation by loading them down with debt that saps their ability to create demand, may prevent them creating things we all need, and then we have to pay a third of it back for them anyway, (maybe more soon), after we make sure their ability to earn will be impacted for the rest of their life, to the detriment of us all?

Amazing that we pay people to structure our lives like this and still go to sleep thinking we are safe.

She doesn't say what the interest rate is, but let's say it's 4%. She could have paid off the loan in 10 years if she paid $267 a month. If she paid $361 a month, she's out in 7 years. I don't think those numbers are unreasonable to repay a $26,400 loan.

Her numbers don't look right - there has to be more to the story.

and has just been paying the $118. The only problem is that $118 for 30 years is only 42,480 IN TOTAL and she's talking about having $45,276 left to pay. The numbers don't look right at all.

The woman in the picture doesn't look like a recent graduate.

I was lucky. I only had to borrow for one year, and it took me 13 years to pay it off.

She's been paying $118/mo.

If she borrowed the $26,400 for 30 years at 7%, then her payment would be $175/mo and interest would be $150/mo. Carried interest would be $30/mo added to the back of the loan and no principle would be paid off. $33*23*12=$9,200 added to the loan = new balance of $35,000. There's additional interest she's having to pay on the carried interest, so it perfectly undertandable to have a balance of $45,000.

All you smart asses who sound like Mitt Romney are the ones who don't understand compound interest.

You're the ones who assume that student loans were ALWAYS at 3.5%.

She was paying less than the minimum and ended up not eliminating her debt.

Well . . . duh.

She may be underemployed, like a lot of people over 40 these days.

$118 may be a stretch for her. Believe me, I've been in the position--when I was first starting my business--that a lesser amount was a stretch for me.

My goodness, if only everyone were as wonderful as you are...

And if she's been unemployed and unable to scrape together more than 120 bucks per month for *23* years there is something wrong with her, not the system.

That's what people are not understanding: this isn't "oh I had a bad couple of months now I'm behind on my credit card payments".

This is something that she allowed to drag on for *23* years.

Obviously there will be ups and downs in that period. That's why you live below your means during the "ups" so you aren't in such a deep hole when the "downs" inevitably appear.

"If only everyone were as wonderful as you..."

I don't know her circumstances. Neither do you.

and expecting them to maintain some basic level of competency in managing their own affairs.

*perfection works well for me. But I understand (perfectly) that it's not a life-style choice many are willing or able to make.

Thanks for the laugh, YOU'RE PERFECT LOL LOL

Man, much ego?

in response to someone who continually accused me of demanding perfection from everyone.

Context, what does it mean?

The same clowns that fly yellow flags with rattlesnakes on them.
For all you know, you could be defending a teabagger who has found a convenient social movement to latch on to.

I won't say it's likely, but it is possible.