Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I agree with the Pope abouot Kim Davis right to be conscientious objector (Original Post) Armstead Sep 2015 OP
yes Angry Dragon Sep 2015 #1
Bingo if her beliefs prevent her from doing her job she should make room for someone who Vincardog Sep 2015 #2
No, see, she has the right to deny people their rights! Oneironaut Sep 2015 #3
I'm afraid you may have been a Republican in a previous life. Gregorian Sep 2015 #4
It's the persecution of Christians again! moondust Sep 2015 #5
MSM Misanthrope Sycophant Monsters orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #31
This is a much shorter version of something I was going to write el_bryanto Sep 2015 #6
Basically she isn't a conscientious objector, she is the state and thus the oppressor in this case Johonny Sep 2015 #23
Protesters have also lit themselves on fire. Frank Cannon Sep 2015 #33
Being a conscientious objector requires courage that Davis doesn't have. CincyDem Sep 2015 #7
Won't happen passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #20
The only way she quits... CincyDem Sep 2015 #28
I don't agree with the pope giving her the time of day... lame54 Sep 2015 #8
Hopefully only 20 minutes Armstead Sep 2015 #9
15.5 minutes Geronimoe Sep 2015 #10
A conscientious objector refuses to do harm to others sarge43 Sep 2015 #11
You win the prize from me at least! CTyankee Sep 2015 #32
Thank you sarge43 Oct 2015 #34
Cannot wait for the day TNNurse Sep 2015 #12
You and me both. I cannot stand the sight of her. smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #30
LOL he made a pretty obtuse statement. Rex Sep 2015 #13
It was cold the day Kim Davis was drafted to be a county clerk. Oh, wait... Solly Mack Sep 2015 #14
See, now this post shows how to unite DU. +infinity! LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #15
So help me God.... Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #16
And she has a choice - she can leave her post rurallib Sep 2015 #17
That last sentence kinda takes her out...if only! passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #21
"...will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality," Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #24
Yeah, but because of Hobby Lobby, she believes passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #26
So Bernie 2016 becomes even more imperative. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #29
Pope needs to understand how our government works much better rurallib Sep 2015 #18
It's a form of theft floriduck Sep 2015 #19
Exactly. She need not hold government office if the DirkGently Sep 2015 #22
I do like her, but I agree with you and the Pope on this. nt kelliekat44 Sep 2015 #25
DING DING DING randys1 Sep 2015 #27

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
2. Bingo if her beliefs prevent her from doing her job she should make room for someone who
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:44 PM
Sep 2015

Is willing to do it.

Oneironaut

(5,524 posts)
3. No, see, she has the right to deny people their rights!
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:47 PM
Sep 2015

Otherwise, that would be denying her rights as a Christian! If she were to resign, she would not be able to exercise this right.

moondust

(20,006 posts)
5. It's the persecution of Christians again!
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 03:56 PM
Sep 2015

Denying Christians the right to deny other people their rights is just like tossing them into the lion's den!



(That's how twisted this crap is getting.)

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
6. This is a much shorter version of something I was going to write
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:04 PM
Sep 2015

She's free to object to this policy all she wants; she's free to protest. We might find it unseemly and wrong but that's her right.

But when she chooses to break the law in order to protest, than she should be held accountable. People who objected to the Vietnam war went to jail or fled the country. People who objected to laws enforcing Jim Crow were arrested or worse (much worse). Kim Davis want's her to have her cake and eat it too.

While I agree with the Pope on economic issues; this response is pretty disappointing.

Bryant

Johonny

(20,889 posts)
23. Basically she isn't a conscientious objector, she is the state and thus the oppressor in this case
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:02 PM
Sep 2015

The UN

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


Pope "I can't have in mind all the cases that can exist about conscientious objection … but yes, I can say that conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be a conscientious objector, he denies a right."

Essentially Kim Davis was allowed her objection. The judge would allow her to not personally witness these licences so long she allow her clerks to do so. But she refused. Since she holds a state position she is denying other people's rights. No one has forced Davis to be an elected official, she choose that. No one has even forced her to do her job, just as long as her office does her job for her. Instead she won't be happy unless she denies other a fundamental right granted by the constitution according to the Supreme Court. No one is denying her freedom of thought, conscience or religion. She on the other hand is single handed dictating her religion on others. She is thus by the Pope's own or the UN's definition NOT a conscientious objector. She is an oppressor, the very thing the concept of conscientious objector originally formed to counter act. Manifestation of religious beliefs that oppress people by use of state power have never met the definition of conscientious objector nor should it.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
33. Protesters have also lit themselves on fire.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 09:15 PM
Sep 2015

Oh, how I wish she would do that. She would REALLY win people over to her cause. But no, she's perfectly content to just sit around on her lazy ass doing jack shit at the expense of the taxpayers in her district.

CincyDem

(6,386 posts)
7. Being a conscientious objector requires courage that Davis doesn't have.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 04:11 PM
Sep 2015


If she's really committed to her principles, she should be ready to lead the life they provide - in her case a life without being a County Clerk and all it entails.

As it her, she isn't a conscientious objector - she's a conscious obstructionist, placing her religious beliefs in front of the law because it fits her tiny little world.

Get her out of that job please. Her 15 minutes has to be up soon, no ?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
20. Won't happen
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:50 PM
Sep 2015
If she's really committed to her principles, she should be ready to lead the life they provide - in her case a life without being a County Clerk and all it entails.


She makes damned good money (and bennies) there for a clerical position. She will never willingly give it up.

I agree that being committed to her principles means giving up her job, and the county should require it. I wonder how strong her principles will be if that happens.

CincyDem

(6,386 posts)
28. The only way she quits...
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:23 PM
Sep 2015


...is if some big Rethug operation offers her mega bucks (comparatively speaking) to be their front.

What a f'ing loser, in a loser county of people who elected her. Not sure when her term comes up for election (read 2018 but I don't really trust that site) but that'll be fun if she decides to run. I'll bet she could get re-elected down there. 12k registered voters, ~50% turnout for the 2012 presidential election...county went about 60/40 for Mitt. She won the job with less than 4k votes. Seems to me she could win again. That, above all, would be the travesty.

lame54

(35,324 posts)
8. I don't agree with the pope giving her the time of day...
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:05 PM
Sep 2015

but the thought of her quitting is nice

unfortunately the pope just gave her (and Huckabee) a steroid shot and she will be more empowered than ever

her 15 minutes just got much longer

 

Geronimoe

(1,539 posts)
10. 15.5 minutes
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:13 PM
Sep 2015

I suspect the Kim Davis train has left the station and only Jesus can resurrect her.

sarge43

(28,945 posts)
11. A conscientious objector refuses to do harm to others
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:16 PM
Sep 2015

Davis does harm. Calling her a CO dishonors many brave people.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
32. You win the prize from me at least!
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 08:30 PM
Sep 2015

I have known a few CO's from the Vietnam War eras. They had to suffer the consequences. This woman did not suffer at all. The comparison is obsequious and it is WRONG...

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
30. You and me both. I cannot stand the sight of her.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:57 PM
Sep 2015

She's the worst kind of hypocrite and she's milking it for everything it's worth. It's revolting.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
13. LOL he made a pretty obtuse statement.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:18 PM
Sep 2015

No doubt Davis will take it to heart and resign in good faith.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
16. So help me God....
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:28 PM
Sep 2015

thanks to a caller on Thom Hartmann today who noted this...

Here is the oath of office taken by court clerks and deputies in Kentucky:

___

Oath of clerk and deputies:

Every clerk and deputy, in addition to the oath prescribed by Section 228 of the Constitution, shall, before entering on the duties of his office, take the following oath in presence of the Circuit Court:

“I, _____, do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of _____ County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.”

___


— Source: Kentucky Legislative Research Commission

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/09/read-the-oath-of-office-taken-by-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis/

rurallib

(62,448 posts)
17. And she has a choice - she can leave her post
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:38 PM
Sep 2015

there is no coercion anyplace in the US for a county clerk to remain a county clerk.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
21. That last sentence kinda takes her out...if only!
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:54 PM
Sep 2015

They need to update that oath to include religious objections to the last sentence.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
24. "...will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality,"
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:12 PM
Sep 2015

Kim forgot to add the thingy.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
26. Yeah, but because of Hobby Lobby, she believes
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 07:20 PM
Sep 2015

it is her legal right to use religion as an opt out.

Gads I can't wait till we can change the power balance of the Supreme Court to be more liberal. They have fucked us over several times lately.

rurallib

(62,448 posts)
18. Pope needs to understand how our government works much better
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:40 PM
Sep 2015

not how he or Kimmy would like it to work.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
19. It's a form of theft
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:46 PM
Sep 2015

of State government dollars if she is paid according to her job description when she refuses to perform any of those duties. She was not a real Democrat anyway so her defection to the GOP is welcome.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
22. Exactly. She need not hold government office if the
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:57 PM
Sep 2015

Constitution conflicts with her views.

What she can't do is take that oath and hold that office, and attempt to force her religion onto people through it.

Very well said.
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I agree with the Pope abo...