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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA red flag most of us missed in the Kim Davis fantasy.
The story was that the Davis's were alone in the room with the Pope, and that she and the Pope spoke directly. According to her attorney's statement, no other people were in the room except for photographers and security.
But everyone knows the Pope barely speaks English (enough to laboriously read his prepared addresses out loud), and that everywhere he went in all his meetings with English-speaking people, he brought a translator. (Even when meeting with U.S. schoolchildren.)
Why would he ever meet with a controversial person like Kim Davis without a translator?
The fraud in this story should have been obvious to everyone -- especially people in the news media -- from the outset.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Bearing false witness is right up there.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,049 posts)'cause they's lyin' fer Jeezus!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)think the Pope is the devil incarnate, so they probably can rationalize the lie in their head. If you can believe a man fed 5000 people with the equivalent of 2 Filet O'Fishes, you can believe anything.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Post deserves wider circulation
randome
(34,845 posts)Good point, pnwmom.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)qui vivis et regnas in
sæcula sæculórum. Amen."
Which I understand to mean, "Kim Davis, you are a true god warrior and my church and the blessings of the Lord are upon you and your good deeds in you fight against Satan"
Actual translation:
Bless us, O Lord, and these
thy gifts which we are about
to receive from thy bounty,
through Christ our Lord. Amen.
NBachers
(17,136 posts)The whole thing sounded bogus as hell from the first.
dem in texas
(2,674 posts)It didn't sound right from day one. Then on top of that. we have her lawyer posting the images of the people in Peru who were supposed to be having a prayer rally for her (the pictures were made in 2014).
Kim and her lawyer are good Christian LIARS!
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)would be so receptive to a woman who has been married four times.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Fornicators...eck!
spooky3
(34,476 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)You can be married and divorced a dozen times, and still enter into a 13th marriage which is valid in the eyes of the Catholic church - as long as none of prior your marriages were valid in the eyes of the Catholic church (and - as a general rule - no marriage which takes place outside of the Catholic church is valid in its eyes unless you deliberately seek & obtain the blessing of the church for the non-Catholic marriages).
madamesilverspurs
(15,806 posts)Remember a while back when that squirrel popped up in someone's photo? It became a meme, somebody fixed him so that he could be popped into anyone's photo. I'm thinking the same could be done with Ms. Davis, she could be claiming private conversations with anyone anywhere. Hope somebody does it, it could get . . . interesting!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)https://www.lc.org/newsroom/details/popes-words-and-meetings-support-conscientious-objection
And an interpreter would be called 'personnel'. Are you referring to an earlier statement that talked about photographers?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)And that completely refutes the fantasy constructed in the OP.
Sid
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)Since I posted that, there have been loads more recs, more replies saying what a great point that is, and no-one thinking that way has attempted to show the bit about 'photographers' was true. It's too desirable for people to bother to check it. The truthiness of it has overwhelmed them.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Now they're changing the language to be more inclusive, using the word, "personnel." But the first on camera claims should have been viewed with suspicion as soon as they were made.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000003953789/both-sides-of-popes-meeting-with-davis.html?playlistId=1194811622182®ion=video-grid&version=video-grid-thumbnail&contentCollection=Times+Video&contentPlacement=3&module=recent-videos&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&eventName=video-grid-click
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)present except for security and photographers.
Apparently they're getting squishy on this.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000003953789/both-sides-of-popes-meeting-with-davis.html?playlistId=1194811622182®ion=video-grid&version=video-grid-thumbnail&contentCollection=Times+Video&contentPlacement=3&module=recent-videos&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&eventName=video-grid-click
muriel_volestrangler
(101,361 posts)"The meeting was a private meeting between Kim Davis, and her husband Joe Davis, and Pope Francis, no other people were in the room other than Vatican staff, the photographers, the security, it was a private meeting just between the pope and the Davises."
Who's getting squishy?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
"...This week the Vatican hosted a three-day, international, interreligious colloquium called Humanum, The Complementarity of Man and Woman: An International Colloquium. Its goal was to propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman. Speakers came from nearly two dozen countries and a variety of religious traditions, including Muslims, Jews, Sikhs and Taoists.
The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Conventions Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDSs Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the governments Affordable Care Acts contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage.
The colloquium rallied around the theological concept of complementarianism, the belief that men and women have different roles in a marriage and religious leadershiphusbands are spiritual leaders, and wives submit to them in love. To be complementary is to complete or fill the lack in the other thing. It opposes egalitarianism, the theological belief that men and women are equal in all respects in marriage and in religious leadership positions. Traditional Catholic, evangelical, and LDS belief interprets the Bible to support a complementarian relational structure. That may explain why mainline Protestant traditions that interpret the Bible to an egalitarian endPresbyterian, Episcopal, United Church of Christwere not featured at the event."
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/
So very obviously you don't have to talk about Davis to have the conversation that needs to be had, all you need is good will and basic honesty about well reported and established facts. Forget Kim, let's talk about NOM and the Heritage Foundation, or Tony Perkins.
Or we could talk about AIDS, condoms and Africa.
Over 100,000 people a month die of AIDS in Africa. Each month. Francis comes to our Congress to archly preach about threats to the family. The number of orphans left behind by those who die of AIDS in Africa is high in the millions. Yet this is not the threat to families which weighs on the minds of Francis, who tells Africans not to use condoms.
I think to claim to care about families while imposing practices that create untold numbers of orphans is fairly ghoulish.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)2 Americans. Maybe with some ISIS members, but 2 Americans, they would never risk it. Not in a confined area like a meeting room. Security was just a few feet away when he was speaking to congress. Totally insane. No photographers? When did you see the Pope anywhere that there wasn't Vatican photographers?
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)The account from Davis' people describes a scenario that would never take place. Never.
ToxMarz
(2,169 posts)And know one can dispute. Certainly the Pope isn't going to take the presses phone calls.
Waldorf
(654 posts)While visiting the US there were lots of Pope praising going on. Kim Davis story comes out and its F the Pope, etc. If the story does indeed turn out to be bogus is the Pope a good guy again?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Whether Kim's story is true or false is of no matter. As long as the RCC continues with its misogynistic and homophobic actions, I will continue to say "fuck the pope"
PatSeg
(47,586 posts)Then I came to DU and saw some pretty nasty threads about the Pope from people who should have known better. There is absolutely no reason to trust a word Kim Davis says.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)He is only one piece on the Chess board. I am sure the politics going on around him are fraught with tension and danger.
.
I'll send him good thoughts and hope for change
PatSeg
(47,586 posts)As a rule, I have little regard for the church and its dogma, but this pope stands out from the rest and I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the most part. I think he has the power to bring about great positive change in the world. I see the church as just a convenient tool.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)The history of the Church is more complex than Game of Thrones.
Take The Norbertines and St. Norbert (who only became pious after a scary thunderstorm). My experience with them was in the aftermath of a pedophile scandal. They seemed to want to pass the blame and were thoroughly insensitive to women in behavior and homily re: abortion.
Now I work for the Franciscans. Naive and playful, they're a much easier group to work for.
Think back to when the catholic church was truly competing with European monarchies....
".... Guibert or Wibert of Ravenna (c. 1029 8 September 1100) was an Italian prelate, archbishop of Ravenna, who was elected pope in 1080 in opposition to Pope Gregory VII. Gregory was the leader of the movement in the church which opposed the traditional claim of European monarchs to control ecclesiastical appointments, and this was opposed by supporters of monarchical rights led by the Holy Roman Emperor. This led to the conflict known as the Investiture Controversy. Gregory was felt by many to have gone too far when he excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV and supported a rival claimant as emperor, and in 1080 the pro-imperial Synod of Brixen pronounced that Gregory was deposed and replaced as pope by Guibert....."
They actually had an "Antipope".
PatSeg
(47,586 posts)is fascinating. I think a person could spend a lifetime studying it. I believe in the near future, there will be no place for organized religion in our lives.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,145 posts)My problem with ending religion is what would replace it. Vacuums are scary.
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)They've made their mark throughout history as educators and thinkers.
I've never heard of Norbertines, although I am familiar with Franciscans and Benedictines.
=======================
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)The Holy Spirit can translate mind to mind.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)or something.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Respecting people based on their religion preference or lack thereof is a democratic principle held in the USA since 1776.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You seem to specialize in such things.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022146890#post82
Self-delete if you want, I'll post the screen capture.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)of promoting the writings of other bigots, racists and homophobes, such as Paul Craig Roberts, Wayne Madsen, Christopher Bollyn, Israel Shamir and others. Bigoted Pope Franky fits nicely in with that group.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4504297
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6057873
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023454166
You seem to specialize in such things.
Sid
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Lying on the Pope isn't cool Kim. Both of her parents are Catholic, so I think she at one was too. I think she either didn't receive the sacrament of marriage (IRONIC) or she did
and didn't get her marriage annulled. Either way she had some kind of falling out with the RCC.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)a few years ago when she finally became a Christian.
Because in her Church's view, a Catholic isn't a Christian.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Why in the world would she even care to meet the Pope? Doesn't that faction think he is the antichrist?
Orrex
(63,224 posts)I believe that, in procedural terms, taking a translator to a private meeting is still considered a private meeting. The translator is ceremonially transparent, serving as an extension of the office rather than as a third party in the discussion.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)security people.
A translator might be "ceremonially transparent" but is just as much of a human presence as a photographer or a guard.
And without a translator, there really couldn't have been any serious discussion between these two, since they didn't share a common language.
http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/100000003953789/both-sides-of-popes-meeting-with-davis.html?playlistId=1194811622182®ion=video-grid&version=video-grid-thumbnail&contentCollection=Times+Video&contentPlacement=3&module=recent-videos&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&eventName=video-grid-click
Orrex
(63,224 posts)who also said that she had a right to refuse to do her job without suffering any consequences?
If so, then I'm not sure that his statements on this matter can be taken at face value.
Beyond that, why would Frankie meet with her at all? To what possible end? Do you really suppose that The Holy Father, leader of the Catholic Church worldwide and head of a sovereign state, really has to take meetings with anyone he doesn't wish to meet?
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)of thousands of people praying in South America, and claimed they were praying for Kim Davis. (They weren't. It was an old photo.) So he has already been proven to be a liar.
I believe the Vatican spokesman who said that she didn't actually have a private audience with the Pope; that she was part of a group of people who were brought in for quick greetings, nothing more.
Most of the accounts that seem reliable say that the Papal Nuncio, who is very conservative , invited her. Which makes sense because it was in his residence that she claims to have had her meeting.
The Pope doesn't micromanage every meeting in every country that he visits. The Bishops are responsible for selecting people in their area they think he should meet -- for example, possible donators.
Whoever put Kim Davis on a list screwed up, and interfered with everything the Pope was trying to do with his visit. He was deliberately, consistently, trying to stay out of US culture wars. So why would he choose to give her a boost at the end -- that she could use to promote herself?
If he HAD wanted to advocate for her, why didn't he do it during the numerous public occasions that were available to him? It just makes no sense.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)malaise
(269,157 posts)for truth although maybe he spoke Palin American like Kim(eh).
KauaiK
(544 posts)lsewpershad
(2,620 posts)onethatcares
(16,184 posts)himself with someone so trivial? He should have met with the Duck Dynasty folks to really get things going in that direction, hell, Phil Robertson speaks Latin in some weird way so a translator would not have been needed.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)This person has already passed her sell-by date...
Appears to have found a way to extract money from far right pinheads who support her and her lies...
I seriously doubt that she has any belief in Christianity...Common, ordinary liar...
jalan48
(13,883 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)They are both consummate liars, and the GOTP loves liars unless of course it's a Democrat.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Tab
(11,093 posts)then let's hear 1000 words
If there were photographers present at this supposed secret meeting, then where are the pictures of Kim with the Pope? The only photos I can find related to the visit are ones of Kim and her husband in a waiting room, and pictures of the Rosaries they were given, which were given to everyone at the meet-and-greet that the Vatican says she was part of (which she was supposedly invited to by the Archbishop of D.C., not the Pontiff). It's not just me--according to Snopes, no photos or audio from the event have been released, and you'd think the Liberty Council and RW media outlets would be parading that sh*t around 24/7 to prove their case by now, if such evidence existed.
It reeks to heaven.
LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)It's just drivel, reprinting each other's drivel.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I guess they are so overwhelmed by the eye-candy-bullshit on TV, that they miss the fact that the M$M gave up real news decades ago. The owners of the M$M ordered more money/ratings by become Reality TV infotainment channels.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Tough call imo. I think it is PATHETIC that the M$M makes this into a big story! Sad.