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"... you and I can't be equal." A letter from mech. eng. senior to female classmates. (Original Post) kpete Oct 2015 OP
It's nice to see ohheckyeah Oct 2015 #1
That was NOT what I expected Lindsay Oct 2015 #2
this! cpompilo Oct 2015 #6
+1 daleanime Oct 2015 #12
+1! Oneironaut Oct 2015 #16
Same here. Aristus Oct 2015 #18
+ geardaddy Oct 2015 #24
that guy is going to be a hero forever. What a great letter. Bless him and the family that raised roguevalley Oct 2015 #31
Definitely have to read down to the punch line! Elmer S. E. Dump Oct 2015 #34
I was all ready to get riled up. MoonchildCA Oct 2015 #39
The O'Henry Twist is alive and well! Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #47
Same! treestar Oct 2015 #49
Wow! Who is that guy? Talk about being enlightened. He must have sisters and strong mom. brush Oct 2015 #3
That's What I Thought, Too Brush ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #26
elsewhere, he says he was married to a feminist for about ten years. niyad Oct 2015 #54
Women engineers. JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #4
I See That Here Too ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #28
The office environment is nice. JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #43
Please take note of the major players in the Indian space program. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #48
That is class. nt bemildred Oct 2015 #5
Yes. Excellent. n/t Ghost Dog Oct 2015 #32
Wow, what a guy. fasttense Oct 2015 #7
I think the term "beautiful" is unnecesary Ghost Dog Oct 2015 #33
There is good news. jalan48 Oct 2015 #8
K&R hedgehog Oct 2015 #9
K&R. Wish more were like him... YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #10
K&R suffragette Oct 2015 #11
wow--glad I read it--the headline gave me pause. niyad Oct 2015 #13
This was so unbelievable that I put my skeptic hat on KentuckyWoman Oct 2015 #14
I don't blame you for being a skeptic NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #20
Bah. He's just trying to get a date with a classmate. ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2015 #15
K&R valerief Oct 2015 #17
As the saying goes: "Real men of quality. . . DinahMoeHum Oct 2015 #19
100% agree on that NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #22
he sure is not a republican Angry Dragon Oct 2015 #21
If he is, MynameisBlarney Oct 2015 #37
We need more men and women like this in Congress d_legendary1 Oct 2015 #23
Engineers in Congress? JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #51
Engineers would care about our infrastructure d_legendary1 Oct 2015 #64
+1 JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #66
Well, sort of. mahatmakanejeeves Oct 2015 #67
Bravo LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #25
That was a great post Gothmog Oct 2015 #27
Wow! City Lights Oct 2015 #29
SMACK! Raster Oct 2015 #30
K & R SunSeeker Oct 2015 #35
That kid gets it. MynameisBlarney Oct 2015 #36
that was my engineer daughter's response when I texted the letter to her - "aww, he gets it" nt kath Oct 2015 #42
Wow! Fantastic Perseus Oct 2015 #38
As an early woman engineer (I entered collage in 1963), s-cubed Oct 2015 #40
Wow - cool lostnfound Oct 2015 #41
I bet he is one helluva fisherman! dae Oct 2015 #44
Mr. Mauldin gets it. hifiguy Oct 2015 #45
Same for women in all math and science fields. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #46
Same for women in any field I'd say. MynameisBlarney Oct 2015 #52
+1 n/t w0nderer Oct 2015 #50
Saved for my granddaughter. raven mad Oct 2015 #53
"Oh no," I thought as I proceeded through the letter. This dumb guy is NCjack Oct 2015 #55
I pretty much knew what he was going to say. Most men feel that way. It's usually only the.. BlueJazz Oct 2015 #56
Yay Jared! Lunabell Oct 2015 #57
Women engineers are awesome. U4ikLefty Oct 2015 #58
The new assist VP of my division is a chemical engineer woman JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #59
This made me cry Matariki Oct 2015 #60
Thanks for posting this LittleGirl Oct 2015 #62
We need more women in STEM positions, and in leadership positions across the board. nt MADem Oct 2015 #61
Quite a moving conclusion. Joe Chi Minh Oct 2015 #63
Very Well Said......... Stainless Oct 2015 #65

Oneironaut

(5,509 posts)
16. +1!
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:27 PM
Oct 2015

I expected the usual "This is our field / Only here because of political correctness / They go easier on you / Not a real engineer" screed. I was pleasantly surprised!

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
31. that guy is going to be a hero forever. What a great letter. Bless him and the family that raised
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 02:21 PM
Oct 2015

him

JonathanRackham

(1,604 posts)
4. Women engineers.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:34 PM
Oct 2015

The women engineers and other technical women in my department are promoted and given job assignments on par. Glad I work for a company that values people for their brains.

ProfessorGAC

(65,104 posts)
28. I See That Here Too
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:50 PM
Oct 2015

Less so at the highest levels, but it's not non-existent. Since there are actually laws regarding this corporate behavior, i'm surprised we're surprised!

JonathanRackham

(1,604 posts)
43. The office environment is nice.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 05:17 PM
Oct 2015

The chauvinist people have been minimized and are retiring over time. Basically they were bullies to everyone. So the net result is a less sexist and less racist work environment. Less BS, more productivity.

jalan48

(13,874 posts)
8. There is good news.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015

For several years now the number of women accepted to our university law school has exceeded the number of men accepted.

KentuckyWoman

(6,688 posts)
14. This was so unbelievable that I put my skeptic hat on
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:20 PM
Oct 2015

and dashed to the Google machine in an attempt to disprove it's authenticity.

That's a sad commentary on the quality of men I know.... and a credit to Jered Mauldin for being a young man of incredible insight.

Thanks for posting.

K & R

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
20. I don't blame you for being a skeptic
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:34 PM
Oct 2015

I started off as an engineering major back in the Dark Ages, and women in the field were more rare back then. I think my specific engineering major started off with around 85 men and 12 women in the group as first year students. The sophomore group that had been through a year had seen every woman but three drop out. I think they had started off with a similar number of women.

While it was a tough major that had attrition every year (like me after 1 year), it obviously wasn't a 75% rate for guys like it was for women. I'm sure some of the women left because they were made to feel unwelcome by a group of the guys and maybe some of the professors. (Note - most of the guys were probably thrilled they had women in their engineering and engineering related classes, but there was likely a group of men that turned them off to engineering, or at least that major)

It's definitely gotten better since the 1980s, but there is still a long ways to go in fields that have been traditionally male dominated.




ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
15. Bah. He's just trying to get a date with a classmate.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:24 PM
Oct 2015

He doesn't really mean any of it.

(Snark, as if it was necessary)

DinahMoeHum

(21,798 posts)
19. As the saying goes: "Real men of quality. . .
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:31 PM
Oct 2015

". . .are not threatened by women seeking equality"

Jared Mauldin is a real man of quality.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
22. 100% agree on that
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 01:36 PM
Oct 2015

I always tell people that I'm thrilled my wife makes more money than me. I'd almost think it was crazy to be threatened by that. I have a pretty good job, and if she makes more than me, it means we're doing pretty well overall.

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,533 posts)
67. Well, sort of.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:29 PM
Oct 2015

Disclaimer: until now, I had not been fully aware that there were two John Sununus. I did not know that the one who was in the Senate was the son of the one I was thinking of.

John H. Sununu

John Henry Sununu (born July 2, 1939) is a Cuban-born American politician. He served as the 75th Governor of New Hampshire (1983–89) and later White House Chief of Staff under President George H. W. Bush. He is the father of Christopher Sununu and John E. Sununu, a former United States Senator from New Hampshire. Sununu was the chairman of the New Hampshire Republican Party from 2009 to 2011.
....

Early life
....

He earned a bachelor of science degree in 1961, a master of science degree in 1963, and a Ph.D. in 1966 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, all in mechanical engineering. Sununu scored a perfect 1600 on his SATs. He is a member of Phi Sigma Kappa fraternity.

Controversies
....

As White House Chief of Staff, Sununu reportedly took personal trips, for skiing and other purposes, and classified them as official, for purposes such as conservation or promoting the Thousand Points of Light. The Washington Post wrote that Sununu's jets "took him to fat-cat Republican fund-raisers, ski lodges, golf resorts and even his dentist in Boston." Sununu had paid the government only $892 for his more than $615,000 worth of military jet travel. Sununu said that his use of the jets was necessary because he had to be near a telephone at all times for reasons of national security. Sununu became the subject of much late-night television humor over the incident. Sununu worsened the situation shortly afterwards when, after leaking rumors of financial difficulties in his family, he traveled to a rare stamp auction at Christie's auction house in New York City from Washington in a government limousine, spending $5,000 on rare stamps. Sununu then sent the car and driver back to Washington unoccupied while he returned on a corporate jet. In the course of one week, 45 newspapers ran editorials on Sununu, nearly all of them critical of his actions. Sununu resigned his White House post on December 4, 1991.

Sununu repaid over $47,000 to the government for the flights on the orders of White House counsel C. Boyden Gray, with the help of the Republican Party. However, the reimbursements were at commercial rates, which are about one-tenth the cost of the actual flights; one ski trip to Vail, Colorado alone had cost taxpayers $86,330.

lostnfound

(16,187 posts)
41. Wow - cool
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 04:48 PM
Oct 2015

By the time I started in 1980, a third of our entering class were women, and by the time I graduated the freshmen were 50/50.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
46. Same for women in all math and science fields.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 06:10 PM
Oct 2015

i salute these talented, brave, exceptional women.

Bravo!

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
55. "Oh no," I thought as I proceeded through the letter. This dumb guy is
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 10:45 PM
Oct 2015

going to have this letter hung around his neck for the rest of his life. Then, at the end, he flips the perception of his letter. And, I thought "oh yes", this smart guy is going to have this letter hung around his neck for the rest of his life.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
56. I pretty much knew what he was going to say. Most men feel that way. It's usually only the..
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 11:02 PM
Oct 2015

...pricks that get in the news.

U4ikLefty

(4,012 posts)
58. Women engineers are awesome.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:28 AM
Oct 2015

I'm a civil engineer and one of my favorite PMs is woman. Plus she's real cool. She just came back from climbing Mt Kilimanjaro.

The structural engineer to teach me all about retaining walls (one of my specialties) was a woman.

A female engineer also broke my heart.

Two out of three ain't bad.



JonathanRackham

(1,604 posts)
59. The new assist VP of my division is a chemical engineer woman
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:03 AM
Oct 2015

The old boys network of professional administrators (non-engineers) got a hurting put on their fun and games miss-management style. Karma and justice in one feisty package. Things that were common sense obvious for years became reality.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
60. This made me cry
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:29 AM
Oct 2015

not so much because it's rare for a man to understand the onslaught of subtle slights that women endure, but in the
ways I've failed to understand the effect of them on myself as a woman. This letter, and even more so his response to the letter being praised really hit some unconscious sore spots.

Jared tells the Ms. Blog:

I absolutely consider myself a feminist! Feminism is about establishing equality, not superiority and that is something I am completely behind. … I was married to a feminist for 10 years and though I didn’t see the subtle [sexism] at first, over time she helped me to understand the subtle comments that add up to a net social push. Once you see it, you see how often it really happens, and you can’t take up a position of ignorance anymore.

(My friend Holly Jeanneret motivated me to write the letter). When Holly and I started Calculus 1 I quickly realized that while I was pretty good at math, she was better; a lot better. Holly consistently outscored me on exams and homework assignments, she understood the concepts on a level I couldn’t match. However, I often saw other men walk right past her and wander around the class looking for another partner. If they did partner with her, they were hyper-critical, they talked over her, they talked directly to me and barely acknowledged she was there. If Holly disagreed on an answer, instead of looking at both answers to find out who had done something wrong, as was common when I worked with other men, I saw them jump to the conclusion that she was must be wrong. It wasn’t just Holly. Since then I have seen the same behavior from men in nearly every class.

What happens when we start pushing some of these thinkers to the side? When they opt for other paths not because this isn’t a calling, but because they see the challenges as outweighing the rewards? I want companies to have access the best thinkers and the best ideas available and if we push certain people out of this field for reasons that have nothing to do with ability, we can’t have that result.

We [men] can’t know what it feels like to grow up in a society where these subtle slights are the norm; a society where women have become so accustomed to them that they can only recall the major ones. We cannot empathize, and our experiences are not the same, but we can listen and try to understand. From there, we can act.


I work in computer sciences. This resonated more than I wish it did.

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
62. Thanks for posting this
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 06:23 AM
Oct 2015

I really enjoyed this response from Jared. His wife is a lucky woman. I grew up with some extremely smart and talented women in grade and high school, which means that my class scores were always lower than theirs so always felt inferior. I'm so happy that this guy 'gets it'.

Stainless

(718 posts)
65. Very Well Said.........
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:22 PM
Oct 2015

As a retired Mechanical Designer with more than forty years of experience, I have seen how poorly female engineers are treated. Women always had to do more to prove that they were capable and many of the male engineers were terrified that a woman might succeed and be promoted to a senior position.

Misogyny was a fact of life in all the companies I worked for. There were unwritten policies that no female engineers were allowed. The excuse was that women would create sexual tension and disrupt the work place. Some of the larger companies had female engineers but they were few and far between.

Some women (Carly Fiorina comes to mind) are really hurtful for the advancement of females in any technical business after she ran HP into the ground.

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