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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:06 PM Oct 2015

The Foundational Principle of a Civilized Society

It goes this way: "From each, according to abilities; To each, according to needs." That's both biblical and a core value of communism. It applies in all sane societies. Children and the elderly, along with the disabled, are supported by the entire society. We were all once children, will some day be aged, and may be disabled at any time.

This is the principle of all societies I call civilized. Societies that do not follow this, and individuals who do not understand it are, I believe, uncivilized. None of us is born with the ability to care for ourselves. We are raised by our parents, taught by our society, and take our places as adults to continue the cycle.

If we are lucky, we live until old age, at which time we are no longer able to survive on our own in many cases. We rely on our children and the society we were part of to help us with our needs. If, as too often happens, we become disabled, we depend, again, on society to ease our disability and help us live decent lives.

If we are impatient with our aged parents or people who cannot care for themselves adequately, we need to remember our helplessness as children and our future disabilities as aged people or victims of disabling accidents or illness. If we remember these things, we will act as civilized people and do what we can to assist.

None of us are productive and useful throughout our lives. Many of us cannot meet our own needs. As a society, we can help everyone in our own society to survive and contribute as they are able. Those who are able must aid those who are not. That is what separates us from societies that simply abandon those who cannot care for themselves.

That is why we have schools for all and why we should have health care for all. That is why we must not look at those less able than ourselves as a burden. We may all, if we are lucky, live to be less able ourselves. Being mindful of this will keep us on the right track and make our society better.

Please pardon my impertinence in bringing this up.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Foundational Principle of a Civilized Society (Original Post) MineralMan Oct 2015 OP
I agree, but I suspect many don't. elleng Oct 2015 #1
I don't have the exact reference. MineralMan Oct 2015 #2
Thanks. elleng Oct 2015 #3
I edited the above to include actual chapter and verse references. MineralMan Oct 2015 #5
Thanks. I've only read it in small bits and parts. elleng Oct 2015 #7
I can pull verses from the entire bible from memory, but cannot MineralMan Oct 2015 #13
Wonderfully done. Thank you. Wilms Oct 2015 #4
Thank you. MineralMan Oct 2015 #8
Been there. Wilms Oct 2015 #14
Again, you get it. Not everyone does, but they will at some point. MineralMan Oct 2015 #16
Louis Blanc was not a communist. Rex Oct 2015 #6
Actually, I am not wrong at all. Go read Acts. MineralMan Oct 2015 #9
You mix up communism and socialism and the church recognized dues to the state. Rex Oct 2015 #11
I mix up nothing. I'm talking about common principles in most civilized societies. MineralMan Oct 2015 #15
Yeah and I have a degree in history. Rex Oct 2015 #17
Louis Blanc just reiterated the principle. He did not invent it. MineralMan Oct 2015 #21
Mark 12:17 elleng Oct 2015 #10
Exactly even the Church recognized dues owed the state. Rex Oct 2015 #12
Most societies act through the state. MineralMan Oct 2015 #19
Trust me, the concept was not original with him. MineralMan Oct 2015 #18
He coined the phrase you are using to validate your point. Rex Oct 2015 #20
He rephrased it: MineralMan Oct 2015 #22
Unfettered socialism. Rex Oct 2015 #23
Indeed it is. Worth thinking about. MineralMan Oct 2015 #25
Agree. Rex Oct 2015 #26
Most modern philosophies have sources in ancient writings. MineralMan Oct 2015 #24
KnR. nt tblue37 Oct 2015 #27

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
2. I don't have the exact reference.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:12 PM
Oct 2015

It can be found in the book of Acts, Chapter 4, beginning with verse 34., though, and is echoed in Acts, Chapter 2, verses 44 and onward. Acts is not a usual part of regular Bible reading for most people. You can find its origins in the early verses of Matthew, as well, but not in those exact words. It is expressed in many different words, and in many different scriptural and philosophical works, but can be condensed to what I wrote.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
5. I edited the above to include actual chapter and verse references.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:17 PM
Oct 2015

I did have to look them up, though. At one time, I would have known them from memory, but it has been a while since I regularly read the Bible.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
13. I can pull verses from the entire bible from memory, but cannot
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:24 PM
Oct 2015

usually provide references without looking them up. In my life, I've read the entire thing multiple times as part of my education, and have an excellent memory. Still, I can't come up with chapter and verse numbers without the Internet, and thank goodness it exists.

The Bible is a useful thing for finding common principles that apply in most civilizations. The more such works one reads, regardless of the particular religion, the more of this commonality you find. For me, that means that societies find what works and institutionalize it through religion or philosophy. Most of it is common sense, if one really thinks about it.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
8. Thank you.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:20 PM
Oct 2015

I am moved to write this because my wife's mother is in the hospital, after a fall and 6 broken ribs. She's 87 years old. It's inconvenient for my wife and I, and is interfering with our work. However, she is my wife's mother, and we have a duty to make her the priority right now, as she did for my wife when she was a child.

She will be OK, but it will be a long healing process. When I am tempted to become impatient, I remind myself of what I wrote above. It also helps me think about others in need.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
14. Been there.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:24 PM
Oct 2015

Breathing and knowing I was doing what I must and ultimately wanted made it a lot easier. And yes, pondering our shared penchant for disability as I went along.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
11. You mix up communism and socialism and the church recognized dues to the state.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:22 PM
Oct 2015

Just change communism with the world socialism and you might be on to something. I know they are similar, but still not the same beast.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
15. I mix up nothing. I'm talking about common principles in most civilized societies.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:25 PM
Oct 2015

I've been studying this stuff all my life.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
21. Louis Blanc just reiterated the principle. He did not invent it.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:32 PM
Oct 2015

As I said, go read Acts. The principle also exists in other scriptures from other religions. That's because it is a core good. Religions reflect societies, not the other way around.

elleng

(130,878 posts)
10. Mark 12:17
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:22 PM
Oct 2015

'Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”'

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
19. Most societies act through the state.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:30 PM
Oct 2015

We cannot help everyone personally. The society can act on our behalf, if it is a civilized society. We contribute to that effort.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
20. He coined the phrase you are using to validate your point.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:32 PM
Oct 2015

Sorry, I thougth you might know who originated that saying and belief system in modern times. My bad. I guess the Communist Manifesto and the Bible have similarities. Since I've never compared the two, I will leave it to your study.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
22. He rephrased it:
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:36 PM
Oct 2015

Acts 4:34
that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Acts 4:35
and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
23. Unfettered socialism.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:39 PM
Oct 2015

Kinda the opposite in todays world of 80 people owning half of all the worlds wealth.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
24. Most modern philosophies have sources in ancient writings.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:40 PM
Oct 2015

It's a matter of discovering them. This one is an easy one to find. There are many more, and not just in the Bible, but in all ancient scriptures. I've found that of great interest since I was a teenager, and have been finding such parallels ever since.

I know the Louis Blanc quote in French. I learned it at about 20 years of age. I won't bore you with all of the equivalents in ancient writings. Blanc was a well-educated man. He paraphrased nicely. I translated, but eliminated the gender-based language he used.

It's not a unique idea to Louis Blanc, by any means. His phrasing is one that is most often remembered, but there are many other versions of the same idea.

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