and I have been here since 2004.

Ever try to feed yourself on food stamps alone? The amount of food a prisoner receives has more nutrition than equal days of food stamps. Shall we move on to free healthcare for prisoners? Do you KNOW how much money it costs to provide for each person in prison?
Then come back and compare that number to the cost of the average retirement home.

I think you are missing the point of the OP's statement.

That is hogwash.

You generally do not need food stamps when you live in a nursing home or retirement home.

Far better than trying to eek out your health care, and housing, nurse, etc. There will be far more seniors than now trying to get into prison soon.

Better yet, at least try to make a big score, that will sustain you, and if you fail, then, you go to prison, where you were going anyway.

What do you think those that get cancer, etc, will choose, if they are left to ROT by their countrymen? No meds, extreme pain? I would go ballistic.

Desperate times make people do things society wont like. Starving to death, to cull the poor herd, aint going to go as the sociopaths presumed.

As for nursing homes, they just cut the meager provisions, that were already inadequate, by 10%+.

Those infirmaries are not hospitals and not equipped for a lot ailments and injuries. They can't keep them for long term care. I worked at a hospital where prisoners were brought. They were always cuffed and required 2 guards at all times.

Sticking elderly people in a prison is so not the answer. I swear I would go ballistic if anyone ever attempted to put my loved one in a damn prison.

They will soon cut medicaid, medicare, SS, SSI, SSDI, and any and all other forms of mercy. What is your druther?

My sister had a stroke at an early age, so she ended up in a nursing home on Medicaid. The mentally ill are also in the nursing home, since La. doesn't use mental institutions anymore.

She gets fed and gets a minimum of medical care. But...everything she has owned has at one time or other been stolen (all her clothes, her portable dvd player, her Kindle I got her for Christmas since she doesn't have access to or room to keep books, eyeglasses, toothbrush, magnifying glass, you name it). She doesn't just share a room with one cell mate; she shares with several crazy room mates who shout at nothing and babble incoherently. One is so off that she runs a portable heater when it's hot. She is never alone. Never has privacy. Has a closet to lock, but she can't reach it and can't walk to it. There are aids, but they are over worked and underpaid and the ratio of aids to tenants is so high, they don't have time to do much of anything.

My sister has teeth problems and has had for a couple of years. She is still waiting to be taken to a dentist who will accept Medicaid. There is apparently no one in town. They won't fix her teeth. Medicaid will only pay to pull them. So she will have all her teeth pulled....whenever the nursing home can take her to the dentist or oral surgeon out of town. Even then, she's not sure if that'll just be a first look-see visit, or she'll actually get the work done.

She is totally helpless, dependent on aids who steal from her. There is a dr who sees her occasionally.

She has been taken to the hospital several times with respiratory ailments, so I guess in that respect she is getting the same level of care as prisoners.

She has no say so over the food she gets, or when. Just like a prison.

It does sound like she'd be better off if she were in a cell with just one other person, where her belongings would be somewhat protected from the population at large. Where she is, any of the patients and aids can go into her room at any time and steal anything. When she goes to the hospital, she loses anything that isn't locked in that closet.

She does get basic cable tv (I bought her a small tv).

Do you think she'd be better off with prison guards than nurses?

I'm not saying that nursing homes are utopias, but they are much better than prisons on any day of the week.

I do understand. My cousin is mentally retarded and she will always be in a nursing home. I don't blame you for your animosity at all. It's just that I have a tough time believing that anyone would prefer their loved one in a prison rather than a nursing home.

How often do you think you'd get to see her if she was housed in a prison? How much could you trust prison staff? Do you think they wouldn't abuse her or take advantage of her in a prison?

Seriously think about this and then decide if you think she's better off in a prison.

My father was in a similar situation. I felt like he was imprisoned. And that I had done it to him. I am sure you are right that a real prison would not be a better situation. But I also understand the reaction.

she had to be cared for round the clock (couldn't go to restroom by herself, etc.), since the stroke left her partially disabled. Then she broke her hip/leg, which disabled her more. She is overweight....I and others in teh family wouldn't be able to lift her to assist her. There simply was no choice.

At first, it would've been better to have an assisted living facility, but La. doesn't have those for public-assistance patients. If it has them at all. Here in TX, we have those.

But, to be clear, this is sort of her own fault. She refused to work much of her adult life, so didn't have insurance. She also led an unhealthy lifestyle...you could tick off almost every risk category for having a stroke, in her case. She just sat around much of hte day, living with my mother, eating, smoking, and watching tv. So she still does that, except she can't go outside easily to catch a smoke these days. They have to use a machine to put her in her wheelchair so she can be mobile. And it was her decision to stay in La. I tried to talk her into leaving and coming to TX, where there are more jobs, but she wouldn't. But at least there, family is able to go see her more often than if she were here in Texas. Except I don't get there often.

And the whole nursing home of sick, mentally ill, or criminal population, including the staff, have access to her room at all times. There are no locks. That means she's not locked in...but also, that others cannot be locked out. No protection.

I don't get to see her much now...she's out of state.

I HAVE thought about this. You clearly don't have experience with someone in a nursing home on medicaid. It's hell on earth. It's not something you'd wish on your worst enemy. She IS in prison, except with no protections against the other criminals. And some of them ARE criminals....did you not notice that I said that everything she has has been stolen? Others are mentally off.

the food is hard to choke down even if you are hungry. medication decisions without right to refuse even with legal family member having medical decision rights. being mixed in with the hollering wailing deranged members whose section is under lock just because you cant speak. passers by cant see whats going on in there. maybe those problems are medication side effects in many cases. being denied the right to get to the bathroom just because the worker doesn't feel like it and thinks you need to learn to wait longer between bathroom stops.

I believe non appropriate medication gets prescribed just for financial gain. I will never ever forgive myself for this even though I felt I had no choice. I would rather crawl up into the woods and die than finish my life living that way.

it doesnt have to be that way. if you are lucky you too will find all too soon that you are an Old Person. or a disabled person. perhaps from a bad reaction to a shot mistaken for a stroke so you are not treated for a treatable condition. or perhaps it was all just a coincidence.

this has destroyed me from the inside out. I only hope to have the strength to write about it so my story being added to all the others will help us make a change. family members must be cared for by those who love them and we need a different system to make that possible. this requires time away from the paid workforce and cooperation and support between different families all working towards the same goal. the medical profession does need to be involved in many cases.

cooperative living with people rotating the duties of care, to avoid burning anyone out and sharing the load, probably paying for assistants to be on hand, I'm not sure exactly how to do it right.

I think prison might totally be less reprehensible than what goes on here. it depends on where, of course, I'm sure they are not all bad.

Its not as easy to be arrested for an older person in distress. I've tried to be arrested while homeless.

"Why are you shoplifting?"

"I'm homeless, I'm hungry."

But when they took me to jail, they reviewed my medical report: "You got all kinds of things wrong with you." So they just cited and released me, fearing the medical costs, I suppose.

My gambit had failed. It was time to start kicking rocks.

This article is pure bullshit. They are talking out of their ass.

are MUCH better at health care than for profit nursing homes the neglect their 'inmates'

The care they provide is limited and many prisoners who have stayed until they were elderly and unable to care for themselves do get transfered to nursing homes. They can't handle the level of required care.

The nursing homes that get the most news are the ones that get caught at abusing the residents. It's much better than it used to be back in the 70's and 80's.

I can take you to at least a dozen nursing homes that give wonderful care. They do not neglect.

You want to stick an elderly person in a federal prison where prisoner violence is rampant and guards are abusive. They have lockdowns in those places.

You want to put an elderly person there?

I don't think the OP is really serious that prison is where poor elderly should be.

They are making a point about the options available to poor elderly, a good point actually.

is tiny. Secondly, here is a link to the Nursing Home where my dad lived during the last year of his life:

http://www.waveny.org/

granted, that may well be the best nursing home in the country, but here's a link to the Nursing Home down the road from where I live:

http://www.craftsburycommunitycarecenter.org/

Not all are eligible..... the alternative would be to become homeless...Federal Prison vs Homeless at retirement age is perfectly acceptable!

Besides, not all old people wind up out in the street. There are social programs specifically designed for the elderly homeless to get into nursing homes.

My father was homeless in Reno, NV. They kept him in the hospital until he was able to get into a nursing home. My grandfather in Oklahoma was removed from his home. We're still waiting for a slot for him in the VA home. He is in a nursing home.

There are programs specifically designed for the homeless who are elderly.

Now, I will say this. We do have to make improvements in our current system. The elderly population is just beginning to boom and it will become more difficult as time goes on to make sure they get the care they need.

Prison will never be the answer.

The various photos folks have are mostly from a generic set the site has pre-loaded. You can go in to edit your profile and choose one yourself. Very few people actually have photos of themselves in their 'avatar' picture, since you have to donate money to the site for that privilege.

There are many people who do make this choice -- I've met some
of them. For them, it's just easier to be in jail, too hard to be
on their own out in the world.

....where a woman said she was going to retire at Holiday Inn because it was cheaper by the day than an assisted living place. Room service, nice furnished room, daily cleaning, someone will check on you every day, there's usually a restaraunt at or nearby, and they are always friendly!
All for about half of what a nice assisted living joint charges per day. Somehow, I kinda believe she's on to something!

in addition to medication and provide other services that you can't get in a Holiday Inn.

"Assisted" living..not Nursing Homes..which have the folks who cannot take care of themselves...big difference.

People who need this need it for a reason.

don't you think that if a person was able to stay in a motel, they could still live at home?

They need help. Their meds still have to be dispensed. They still require care by medical staff for a wide variety of ailments and cannot be on their own.

My hand is on my face because I'm astounded at the lack of basic knowledge of the elderly and their needs. The stupid on this entire thread is making my dog's head explode. It's truly shocking to me.

Keep in mind, I spent several years working with the elderly and in the medical field in general. I have extensive experience. Not only that, I also provided home care to those who needed it as well.

What a great idea...purchase a motel for the elderly!...

They can crap in their beds because no aides are there to help them to the bathrooms.

At least it's cheaper than a nursing home.

I am sure there are SOME good nursing homes..but I will bet they are few...

Motel 6 is cheaper than a RETIREMENT APARTMENT...not a nursing home..

though they are cheaper than a nursing home..and a visiting nurse on a daily basis is probably still cheaper than a nursing home!

People even in retirement apartments still have medical needs. If they didn't, they'd still be at home. They still require medical staff and even housekeeping staff who will do their laundry and see to other needs.

You cannot get the same services in a motel than you would in a retirement apartment. My aunt lived in a decent one for many years. She could do a lot on her own, but still needed assistance. If she did not need assistance, she would still be at home which is where she would prefer.

is still viable...for folks who have NO MONEY, NO RELATIVES..and have no way to take care of their health needs...a nursing home is not an option for them!

You need to look at the facts.

Prisons do not have the necessary workers or facilities for an elderly resident. Nursing homes do. They are not as bad as you seem to think they are.

Not if you think prisoner violence, isolation, abuse from prison guards, and lockdowns make for a better care facility than a nursing home where they have community services, volunteers, movie nights, family and friends can come and go easily.

Let's send 86 year old grandpa out in the yard with the cons and see how long he lasts?

than you. I agree that a well run nursing home is better than prison, but Prison is better than HOMELESSNESS AND NO HEALTH CARE AT ALL!..not everyone has access to well run nursing homes!

I'm being sarcastic of course because your argument on it's face is just laughable.

People do have access to comparing nursing homes.

http://www.medicare.gov/NHCompare/Include/DataSection/Questions/SearchCriteriaNEW.asp?version=default&browser=IE%7C9%7CWindows+7&language=English&defaultstatus=0&pagelist=Home&CookiesEnabledStatus=True

Also, nursing homes have to comply with Medicare guidelines. If they do not there is a heavy price to be paid. Some administrators have faced jail time for abuses. This was awhile ago when nursing home abuse became news.

If a nursing home does not comply with Medicare guidelines and caring for the residents they can lose their considerable funding from the government. Their doors can be closed.

They are subject to inspections as well.

Nursing homes are not the destitute and hopeless places they used to be. Seriously, they are not. You should really take the time and visit a nursing home. See for yourself. I think you're mind will be changed.

in prison you get up when you are told to get up. you go to bed when you are TOLD to go to bed. you shower when you are told. you get to go out in the yard and pump all the iron you want when they tell you to.

You will eat what is given you in a short window, no casual conversation over starbucks coffee and a pannini bread lunch.

Ypu will ear what is issued to you, you are subject to cell searches whenever guards deem necessary. You are at risk of brutal physical assault on any given day.

No, i think i'd leave prison out of my option list when I look for "assistance'

or die in one's apartment..or even on the streets...prison does not look so bad...who cares when I am awaken...as long as I am alive?

It's just being alive. It's suffering.

No one in their right mind should ever think that living in a federal prison is better than a nursing home.

between a well run nursing home or prison, but HOMELESSNESS, AND UNTREATED DISEASE...talk about

Where in the hell are you getting these notions?

Go visit a nursing home and see for yourself. Go see more than one. You'll find out quick enough that the staff are caring and do take care of the elderly.

I spent a good portion of my life caring for the elderly as do many of the health care workers I know. We don't do it for money. We do it because we care. We do it because the elderly deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

Your fucking answer is to cram them in a fucking prison. I'm so goddamn pissed that you think you're treating them better by putting them in a goddamn fucking prison with murderers and rapists.

Where is your caring? Where is the dignity and respect you would give them?

I'm fucking done with you.

I am not advocating it ..I am reporting it...get over yourself..NOT EVERYONE HAS A CHOICE..or at least they do not BELIEVE they have a choice..perhaps your time would be better spent telling retires their options regarding nursing homes...or GOOD nursing homes...

Pulling out a few stories of old folks committing crimes for the explicit purpose of gaining prison health care does not imply in any way that nursing homes are substandard. It implies that those few elderly who have blindly felt the need to commit a crime for such a purpose have not had access to the resources they need. That's it.

I've spent my time in nursing homes and worked with the elderly. I know their needs, their wants, and what they care about.

In the final years of their live they want respect and dignity. They want to be treated like they're human.

They will never get that in a prison. Not in a million years.

I would most definately take a nursing home over prison. If someone is poor they can get on medicaid to fund their care. My dear mother who passed away 1 yr. ago today spent the last 2 yrs. in a nursing home and while things weren't perfect, she had wonderful staff who took good care of her, kept her spirits up and were kind and loving. I am forever grateful for the love they gave my mom and still keep in touch with them. A prison will never provide a loving, nurturing environment to a frail elderly person, no way. Is a prison going to take folks on outings to go shopping, to the casino, or out to dinner? Do they have recreators at the prison to plan birthday and holiday parties? My Mom got to participate in some very nice activities while she was at the nursing home and I'm so grateful to the staff.

I know there is alot wrong with nursing homes, but don't lump them all together.

Last edited Fri May 25, 2012, 10:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Her doctor recommended it after her bout with pneumonia. She's 92 and I'm her full time caregiver. I told the doctor I'd let my mom go to the facility provided I could stay there with her around the clock. This was supposed to be a good nursing home, located near the ocean in California. I began compiling a list of complaints on the facility shortly after arriving there because things were so bad. First, my mom caught a terrible stomach virus that affected most of the staff and patients and in her weakened condition following the pneumonia it certainly wasn't good for her. The nursing home wasn't even warning visiting doctors about it and they were probably carrying the virus elsewhere to other facilities. Later, I kept complaining to the nursing staff and eventually to management about the fact they weren't changing my mother's catheter every day like they're supposed to. My mother got an extremely bad bladder infection and following her two weeks in the facility, she had to go back to the hospital for another week and antibiotics. My mother had a bad bed sore from her stay in the hospital and her doctor prescribed an air mattress. That air mattress stayed for one week in the corner of her room while I pleaded with her nurse and management to set it up. Finally I was able to reach her doctor who called management. Suddenly, the home decided to clean all the curtains around the beds. Without the curtains, my mother had a bright blinding light in her eyes from the hallway that is on 24 hours a day. I kept shifting her bed around where she didn't have the light in her eyes. Every time I came back from a break, the bed would be back to the angle where the light was in her eyes. This went on for five days before the curtains were brought back. I really had it out with the disgusting woman who was managing the facility because it was her doing. Several times my mother lay in her feces for hours and no nurse's assistant could be found late at night to clean her. The place was extremely understaffed. After this happened several times, I started cleaning my mother myself and getting her out of bed despite the fact I had been warned by management not to do this. I got into conversations with several nurse assistants who told me of how filthy the nursing home was kept and of the corners being cut by management. They worked in several other facilities in southern California and they said most of the others were much worse. I could go on and on. The food was ridiculously bad. One night, my mother's dinner consisted of a grilled cheese sandwich and pretzels. I had to keep reminding the nurses to bring the proper medicine because they kept screwing up. And I could not believe that the nurses seemed to have an aversion to touching a human body. Not once did I ever see a nurse change a bedpan, take a patient to the bathroom. feed someone who needs feeding, or do anything other than bring medicine. Apparently, policy was that only assistants or CNA's could interact physically with patients. Nurses stood by taking notes while I pleaded for someone to come and help my mother. My mother was released on a weekend and the nursing home was supposed to give her some heart medication. They lost it and management refused to make up for it leaving me with o way out because I could not reach her doctor until Monday. I noticed after a week there a thick book hanging on the wall tucked away in a corner of the lobby. It was an endless series of complaints from the federal government for 2011 that the facility had to bring up to standard and which they are required to post on the premises. I asked a friend of another patient who came to visit her from time to time and who had been involved in the healthcare field and she told me that was not unusual.

I'll tell you, if my time comes where I can't take of myself, I'll rent a cabin in the woods to go die a quiet death alone. I do not want to endure the abuse and neglect that I saw. People who actually spend 24 hours in a place like this over several days get a very different and sobering look of what it's really like. Most loathsome was the management.

My father's story parallels yours, and now I am facing the same with my mother. Having watched what happened with my dad, I don't see how she could be worse off at home no matter what.

and the burgler finding a decaying corpse in a recliner.

I have visited people in some of the best nursing homes in the state, and that is not for me.
I live by myself and if I can't take care of my self, I just die and it is all over with.

I am not going to a place where there is yelling and screaming 24 hours a day. I don't think I can stand the smell of urine and feces all the time.

Just let me die, I want nothing of it.

I've been in prisons and I've been in nursing homes. The prisoners ate MUCH better, which is probably a big factor in that awful smell nursing homes have.

The short time she was in a retirement home was because it was also a rehabilitation clinic to which her doctors sent her after she nearly died in a hospital. I was there for hours every day doing my best to care for her needs. When she came home she basically took to her bed for 5 years before she died of pancreatic cancer. She suffered from Dementia. In the end she had palliative care at home because of the pancreatic cancer.

I took care of all her physical needs and my son took care of feeding her. She died peacefully at home. I never had any problem with the nurses or doctors, even when she was in the hospital because I took care of her. I spoke for her and I made sure her medication was given to her. The nurses learned very quickly that my 'nursing' skills were actually a help to them. She was one less patient they needed to take time out to feed or change. Nurses are very hard working and they simply can't spend a lot of time with any one patient. So are the people who work in retirement homes. When it came time to change her sheets I knew how to move her so I could make the bed by myself. I bathed her and I cleaned her and made sure she was comfortable and fed. The palliative care people all agreed that my son and I took very good care of her and that we could be trusted to do so.

I agree with some of the posters here that I would rather die alone than go to a retirement home. By the time I get that old, if it takes that long, retirement homes are going to be too full without enough help. I am a boomer and I expect to work for as long as I have to and take care of myself, because I don't want my son to ever have to care for me the way he cared for my mother. It look years of his life. I hope I never need him in that way. If it's possible to make that promise, I've made it.

I really think they are hell on earth.