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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 05:54 AM Nov 2015

Members of my family volunteered for the Union Army and fought in the Civil War.

So I have a personal interest in making sure we all understand the facts about that War to the extent possible.

The Union Army consisted of 2,647,341 soldiers.

178,975 were African-American.

3,350 were Native American.

Just wanted to clarify these facts.

Many white people fought against the rebellion of the South and many of the soldiers fought because they opposed laws that permitted white slaveholders from the South to capture slaves in the North. Many of the white men who fought for the Union despised slavery so much that they were willing to die to abolish it.

Please do not forget the selfless sacrifice of any of these soldiers, regardless of race, for the Union -- our United States -- and for the abolition of slavery.

We owe them so much. And some of them were very, very young.

http://www.nps.gov/civilwar/facts.htm

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Members of my family volunteered for the Union Army and fought in the Civil War. (Original Post) JDPriestly Nov 2015 OP
A Quincy Jones treat for you pinboy3niner Nov 2015 #1
We win when we work together and join to fight for justice. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #4
The song for me evokes the black troops I served with in Vietnam pinboy3niner Nov 2015 #6
The local army base, Fort Huachuca, is home to the Buffalo Soldier. panader0 Nov 2015 #16
My family served on both sides Sherman A1 Nov 2015 #2
OK? Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #3
We need to be reminded of the importance of working together for justice. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #5
OK. Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #8
+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #14
We make progress when we emphasize us against the wrongs, not us against "them." JDPriestly Nov 2015 #17
We make progress when we are willing to listen to those affected. Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #21
I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Kaleva Nov 2015 #7
Blacks were enlisted as Confederate troops on March 13, 1865...a desperation move... Human101948 Nov 2015 #9
Thank you for proving what I said was true. Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #10
You're welcome...I like to learn the details... Human101948 Nov 2015 #13
Thanks. It is important that we learn the truth about our history. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #18
Details are important. Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #20
Thanks for posting Omaha Steve Nov 2015 #11
Vermont... handmade34 Nov 2015 #12
Cool! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #15
I did not know this about Vermont. Thanks for posting this. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #19
Great photo! ozone_man Nov 2015 #25
"60 Minutes" episode on slave ships last night. moondust Nov 2015 #22
My family settled in the Midwest. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #23

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
1. A Quincy Jones treat for you
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:06 AM
Nov 2015

I love this song! About black soldiers in the U.S. Army, many of whom also served in the Civil War.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
4. We win when we work together and join to fight for justice.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:32 AM
Nov 2015

Today, we can work together and fight for justice without the risks that were necessary during the Civil War.

But we must remain united in the struggle for justice. We must also remain committed to the ideal that justice must be for all and not just for ourselves.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
6. The song for me evokes the black troops I served with in Vietnam
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:40 AM
Nov 2015

Though in my platoon it didn't matter what color you were. We were all Olive Green.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
16. The local army base, Fort Huachuca, is home to the Buffalo Soldier.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:12 AM
Nov 2015

Damn, the picture didn't come through....

Fort Huachuca: The Traditional Home of the Buffalo Soldier

----




Buffalo Soldier statue at Fort Huachuca's Main Gate.
It was dedicated in 1977 to recognize the part Huachuca
has played in African-American military history.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
2. My family served on both sides
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:17 AM
Nov 2015

The reasons they served were logical to them at the time, based upon a variety of things and I will not judge their actions. Slavery was (and still is) an abhorrent institution and should never have occurred in this country, but it did and it is part of our combined history, thankfully it was put to an end.

Behind the Aegis

(53,989 posts)
3. OK?
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:27 AM
Nov 2015

I am not sure why this "reminder" is needed, but AA soldiers were not allowed to serve in the Union Army until late 1862. Also AA served in the Confederate Army...so... While some certainly were abolitionists in the Union Army, I would assert most were about "preserving the Union" much like their Commander-in-Chief, Lincoln. There were also Southerners who were abolitionists.

I don't understand the need for this "history" lesson.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
5. We need to be reminded of the importance of working together for justice.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:37 AM
Nov 2015

Whether we are women or people of color or immigrants or no matter who we are, we need to join with others in order to secure our rights.

No group, no individual, can secure these rights without working with others.

Behind the Aegis

(53,989 posts)
8. OK.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:48 AM
Nov 2015

While not being a PoC, I have to say that isn't how I read this post. I certainly agree it is important to work together to achieve equality, another component is to remember those who are at the receiving end of the oppression are generally, almost always, more knowledgeable about what it is like to be oppressed and don't need reminders how those who are from the group which did/does the oppressing "did good" on this occasion or that one. If we want to move forward, we have to be willing to listen to those who have traditionally been left behind.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
17. We make progress when we emphasize us against the wrongs, not us against "them."
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 02:42 PM
Nov 2015

Not all white people should be painted as racist.

Many white people died to end slavery.

Many white people have worked to end discrimination and racism.

And those of us who are white and despise discrimination and racism need to be encouraged so that our numbers grow. We do not need to be lumped together with racists and verbally abused.

Without the support of the majority, minorities cannot flourish and be equal. That's just mathematically impossible.

So, as in the time of the abolitionists, the emphasis has to be on spreading unity in the face of movements like racism, especially organized racism in law enforcement and our prisons, not on spreading disunity and separation.

I write this for my grandchildren and my great nephews and nieces, for a new generation of immigrants who do not come necessarily from Europe and who are welcome in America. I live in California. It is in my personal interest that racism as we know it end. My little grandchildren do not recognize race. That is as it should be.

I am tired of the efforts to divide us based on race and gender. We need to work together as we did in the Civil War to end evil institutions. Racism is one of those institutions.

Words from California.

Behind the Aegis

(53,989 posts)
21. We make progress when we are willing to listen to those affected.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 03:09 PM
Nov 2015

I agree not all white people should be painted as racist. It simply isn't true. It is also true white people died to end slavery, just as it is true there were many who died to preserve it. While many white people have, in fact, worked to end discrimination and racism, more than a few have feverously worked to make it more pronounced or, perhaps worse, have done nothing to stop it.

I will disagree with your statement about needing to encourage white people by quoting random historical tidbits in order to get "our numbers to grow." We need to increase 'our numbers' through education and the understand that ending discrimination and racism is the right thing to do, not a moment to make us feel good and distance ourselves from past issues.

It is true, as I have already stated, it is important to work together to achieve a common goal. Just as important, is listening to those affected by said discrimination and racism and how they wish to see it ended and by what means. We needn't lecture minorities when we feel their opinion is "wrong" or contrary to our own; we need to listen. Note that I said "listen" and not "hear." There is a fundamental difference for which many do not seem to grasp. "Hearing" something simply means the sound has been processed as sound, whereas "listening" means the sound has been processed and higher thought is occurring.

I agree racism needs to end, so do lots of other -isms. I do not agree that includes "not recognizing" those differences, as they play and have played, an essential part in the development of the persons in question.

Words from a part of Oklahoma surrounded by several First Nation peoples.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
24. I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:42 PM
Nov 2015

I am saying that we have to work together.

To make progress toward racial justice, we cannot attack each other. Listening to people affected by discrimination and racial hatred is very important. But also, discerning friend from foe and seeking alliances with friends is very important.

I can understand the suspicion of African-Americans toward white people in general. I can understand that they feel they are not being heard. But it is wise to work with your friends, not offend them, and build coalitions focusing on issues you share with others. That is the way you get things done.

We see the South voting almost in a bloc against progress in many areas, especially voting rights. That is what we should be talking about. We should be talking about what changes are needed in our laws and in our police forces to achieve social justice especially for minority communities, not arguing amongst ourselves about these issues.

Working together is the key. Offending friends, not being able to recognize friends, is how movements fail.

Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
9. Blacks were enlisted as Confederate troops on March 13, 1865...a desperation move...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:54 AM
Nov 2015

The idea of enlisting blacks had been debated for some time. Arming slaves was essentially a way of setting them free, since they could not realistically be sent back to plantations after they had fought. General Patrick Cleburne had suggested enlisting slaves a year before, but few in the Confederate leadership considered the proposal, since slavery was the foundation of Southern society. One politician asked, “What did we go to war for, if not to protect our property?” Another suggested, “If slaves will make good soldiers, our whole theory of slavery is wrong.” Lee weighed in on the issue and asked the Confederate government for help. “We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves.” Lee asked that the slaves be freed as a condition of fighting, but the bill that passed the Confederate Congress on March 13, 1865,did not stipulate freedom for those who served.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/confederacy-approves-black-soldiers

The vast majority of eyewitness reports of black Confederate soldiers occurred during the first year of the war, especially the first six months. Why? Because after the first Confiscation Act, slave laborers began deserting to Union lines en masse, and free blacks’ expressions of loyalty toward the Confederacy waned. The second Confiscation Act, of July 1862, which declared all slaves of rebel masters in Union lines “forever free,” accelerated desertions. So did Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation. In some counties beginning in 1863, as many as 70 percent of impressed slaves deserted. The Union’s emancipation policy checked any impulse blacks may have had to fight for the Confederacy.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2015/01/black_confederates_not_a_myth_here_s_why.3.html


 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
13. You're welcome...I like to learn the details...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:26 AM
Nov 2015

Some people like to portray it as the "loyal slaves" fighting to stay enslaved with their white masters and there may have been a few of those, just as there were Jews for Hitler. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews)

The fact is that most were looking for the opportunity to escape whenever possible.

History gives lie to myth of black Confederate soldiers

The war was virtually over by then, and when black Union soldiers rode into Richmond on April 3, they found two companies of black men beginning to train as potential soldiers. (When those black men had marched down the street in Confederate uniforms, local whites had pelted them with mud.) None got into the war, and Lee surrendered on April 9.

https://www.bluffton.edu/~bergerd/essays/trclark.htm

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
18. Thanks. It is important that we learn the truth about our history.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 02:52 PM
Nov 2015

This is a big deal to me because I knew my great-grandfather, sat by him and talked with him as a small child. At the age of 12 and having lost his mother, he accompanied his father who volunteered for the Union Army in the Civil War. My great-grandfather ran reconnaissance for the Union Army as a mere boy, was shot in the leg and carried the effects of that bullet to his grave. The enormous losses that families in our country suffered as men were killed and died from disease in the Civil War should not be forgotten.

We need to remember that legacy as we now approach reforming our police forces and our justice system. We are a nation that, at our roots, is dedicated to working together to protect the rights and freedom of each of us and all of us.

My point here is that we worked together, all races including Native Americans and recent immigrants (as my great-grandfather and his father were at the time) to achieve racial justice. It strengthens our country when we all know that our system is fair and just.

We who value justice including racial and economic justice have to work together as we did in the Civil War. Divided we fail.

Behind the Aegis

(53,989 posts)
20. Details are important.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 02:54 PM
Nov 2015

Such details would include I made a factual statement, I didn't imply or otherwise claim AA fought for slavery or any other such nonsense, as some might while claiming Jews were fighting for the Nazis. Details would also include that many of those fighting on the side of the Union were not doing so in order to prevent or end slavery. Further details would include a number of Southerners who fought, from the inside, against the institution of slavery. I am sure there are those who use the fact there were AA Confederate soldiers, which is the only thing I said, to imply they were "loyal" to the Southern side, just as there are those who use the works of Jews during pre-WWII to imply the Jews were partly responsible, through their collaboration with the Nazis, for the Holocaust. It's a good thing neither of us made any such implications, right?

handmade34

(22,758 posts)
12. Vermont...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:26 AM
Nov 2015

"...on July 2, 1777. In response to abolitionists' calls across the colonies to end slavery, Vermont became the first colony to ban it outright. Not only did Vermont's legislature agree to abolish slavery entirely, it also moved to provide full voting rights for African American males. On November 25, 1858, Vermont would again underscore this commitment by ratifying a stronger anti-slavery law into its constitution…"


my great-great grandpa…


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
19. I did not know this about Vermont. Thanks for posting this.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 02:54 PM
Nov 2015

It will take all of us working together to reform our justice system so that it is not racist and so that it does not make the poor into prison slaves.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
25. Great photo!
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:01 PM
Nov 2015

I have always wanted to visit the Rokeby museum here. They have done renovations on the place recently. Soon I will visit. Yes, Vermont has a long proud history of being abolitionists.
http://rokeby.org/

moondust

(20,006 posts)
22. "60 Minutes" episode on slave ships last night.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 04:51 PM
Nov 2015

I didn't realize the scale of the slave trade:

Lonnie Bunch: In the years before the Civil War, the amount of money invested in slaves was more than the amount of money invested in railroads, banks, and businesses combined. This was the economic engine of Europe and the United States.

The Slave Ship: Scott Pelley reports on the Smithsonian and the Slave Wrecks Project's journey to recover the first artifacts known to be preserved from a slave ship

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
23. My family settled in the Midwest.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:33 PM
Nov 2015

They did all the work in their Northern climate that slaves did in the climate of the South.

Many of my ancestors were ardently anti-slavery.

It took a movement of white people who strongly, in their hearts and to the point they were willing to risk and lose their lives, opposed slavery to end it.

It took a movement of African-Americans to move white people to oppose slavery enough to abolish it.

So it was a cooperative effort. Without the contribution of one side and one race to the effort, the contribution of the other would have failed.

That is the approach that is needed to reform our justice system now -- working together.

Right now, the emphasis is on persuading the majority of white people that now is the time for reform and that people of all races are willing to work together to get it.

This is not the time to fight against allies in this struggle. That will lead nowhere.

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