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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:54 PM Nov 2015

Do you believe that the TPP, TISA, and other upcoming trade deals are a grave threat to the American people?

Including multinational corporations being able to rip out laws that protect our food, protect the air we breathe, keep our drug prices from rising higher, etc... at their wish?


Or would you trust that congress members and Obama would not sell out the American people to big corporations in such a dramatic way? That maybe all these leaks are false and just fringe conspiracist propaganda?

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you believe that the TPP, TISA, and other upcoming trade deals are a grave threat to the American people? (Original Post) AZ Progressive Nov 2015 OP
Yes they will pile on to the ongoing disaster Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #1
To my knowledge, nothing that Wikileaks has released in the past has turned out to be 'fringe Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #2
"...he's shown a willingness to go along with lefties on social issues while swerving... ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2015 #19
Trick question? Katashi_itto Nov 2015 #3
Yes, absolutely! ananda Nov 2015 #4
My Gawd man- ruffburr Nov 2015 #5
Any trade deal, corporate entity, International Business Court, or International Financial system Half-Century Man Nov 2015 #6
Don't waste your breath on TPP GitRDun Nov 2015 #7
Your focus is on the trade imbalance. Concerns about TPP are elsewhere. Jim Lane Nov 2015 #13
Where is your jobs analysis of TPP? Where is your breakdown of how TPP will affect copyright... ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2015 #20
It seems that the navel-gazing, nativists of the republican base hate all international agreements pampango Nov 2015 #8
Trade deals are a threat to all workers TexasBushwhacker Nov 2015 #9
They will be exactly what they are intended to be. hifiguy Nov 2015 #10
Mega corps want to be stronger than countries Hydra Nov 2015 #11
Won't know till I read them Egnever Nov 2015 #12
IF, after reading it, the good exceeds the bad then defeating it would be a net loss. pampango Nov 2015 #15
Yes I do. Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #14
Trust Congress? Trust Obama? I was born in the morning, but it wasn't yesterday morning. Scuba Nov 2015 #16
The Oligarch's are pushing their subversion of democracy at the speed of light 90-percent Nov 2015 #17
Yes, I think they're bad Bradical79 Nov 2015 #18
No. Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #21
Yes but an even graver threat to every non-investor around the globe. raouldukelives Nov 2015 #22

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
2. To my knowledge, nothing that Wikileaks has released in the past has turned out to be 'fringe
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:05 PM
Nov 2015

conspiracist propaganda', so I doubt they're starting now. And given that other leaks have basically been in line with the WL leaks, I'd say they're all probably real. I wouldn't trust most of the current crop of Congressfolks enough to even loan them a book and expect to get it back. As to Obama? I think he's shown a willingness to go along with lefties on social issues while swerving off to the right on economic ones (and appointing plenty of Republicans to actually BE his economic team), that yes, I think he's perfectly willing to serve up another heaping helping of trickle down urinomics, wherein multinational corporations and the top 0.1% are given enormous benefits, and the rest of us just get their chamberpots dumped on us.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
19. "...he's shown a willingness to go along with lefties on social issues while swerving...
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 11:00 AM
Nov 2015

...off to the right on economic ones..."

That ain't no shit. Just goes to show that our presidents are corporate puppets just the same as those on the right.

ruffburr

(1,190 posts)
5. My Gawd man-
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:32 PM
Nov 2015

These so called "Trade" Deals are without doubt if passed will be the extinction of the middle class and the people's sovereignty of the country, So Yes!

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
6. Any trade deal, corporate entity, International Business Court, or International Financial system
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:35 PM
Nov 2015

Which has the power to usurp the sovereignty of nations is a direct threat.
A threat to the smallest nation is a threat to all nations.

A government is the action arm of a society in a given geographical area. Those actions can be controlled by a single person or common votes, they can be controlled well or badly. But in the end they represent the people in that society. A government's purpose is the continuation of that society.
Businesses are sub societies that exist for the purpose of monetary gain. They are not necessarily linked to the continuation of the entire society. They are not necessarily linked to the well being of their host society. Businesses, legal and not, can make money in the growth or destruction of their host society.

For the same reasons families do not give control of the entire household to self-focused 8 year old's, national sovereignty must be kept safe from those afflicted with the idea that monetary gain as the goal of life

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
13. Your focus is on the trade imbalance. Concerns about TPP are elsewhere.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:41 AM
Nov 2015

Most of the TPP is not actually about international trade. The criticism of TPP is not "It will be ineffective at addressing trade imbalance" but rather "It will be all too effective at achieving its actual purpose, namely the empowerment of corporations."

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
20. Where is your jobs analysis of TPP? Where is your breakdown of how TPP will affect copyright...
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 11:32 AM
Nov 2015

...protection and the effects of corporations being able to sue somebody or everybody when legislation/regulation hits their bottom lines?

Nice job on trade deficits, though...

pampango

(24,692 posts)
8. It seems that the navel-gazing, nativists of the republican base hate all international agreements
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:28 PM
Nov 2015

of any form or fashion. Democrats do like some of them anyway.

The republican base - in polls or state party platforms - seems to oppose the Iran deal, the Cuba deal, any and all climate change negotiations and agreements, the WTO, the UN, the IMF, the recent Arms Trade Treaty, the Disability Rights Treaty, the Law of the Sea Treaty, the International Criminal Court and on and on.

It seems to all come from a concern for national sovereignty - that any international agreement means that the US agrees to do or to not do something in exchange for another country doing or not doing something. The idea of the US giving up the right to do or not do anything - an infringement on national sovereignty by definition - outweighs any benefit from countries working together.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
10. They will be exactly what they are intended to be.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:38 PM
Nov 2015

A rapid acceleration of the already raging race to the bottom and the final stake through the heart of the American middle class.

Just as the oligarchs intend it to be.

Feudlism is by far the most stable of all the varied types of tyranny and it has always been the ideal model of social organization in the minds of the upper financial class. It has been throughout human history.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
11. Mega corps want to be stronger than countries
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:12 PM
Nov 2015

But have the Countries pay for all their needs. Thus, trade deals.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
12. Won't know till I read them
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:28 PM
Nov 2015

I have no doubt the leaks are agenda driven and cherry picked.

The deals may suck on balance or not but I won't know for sure till I read them. Believing is for religious idiots.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
15. IF, after reading it, the good exceeds the bad then defeating it would be a net loss.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 05:53 AM
Nov 2015

If the opposite is true then defeating it is a net win. No international agreement, Iran, climate change, etc. is ever going to be perfect, but we should not act out of fear but out of a desire to advance liberal causes.

90-percent

(6,829 posts)
17. The Oligarch's are pushing their subversion of democracy at the speed of light
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 10:39 AM
Nov 2015

It's my theory that the 2000 election taught the ptb's that they can get away with mass murder and learning they could steal a Presidential Election emboldened them to invade a country on the basis of lies they knew were lies as it came out of their mouths.

Then stolen elections and gerrymandering and citizens united and the nsa and torture that cheney would do again if he had to and secret code voting machines and suspicious small plane crashes and Karl rove nd fox and the 2008 crash and great recession and the racism against our President and all of us propagandized and played to fight each other by mass corporate psyops and finally, CORPORATE PROFITS ARE THE MAIN OBLIGATION OF HUMANITY and Democracy is for the little people who all suck and deserve to suffer because they're not wealthy.

And now Hillary is far ahead and she's so tight with corporate money and the PTB'S that she's probably a secret member of skull and bones and has the tatoo to prove it! Bildeberg Group, Henry Kissinger, IWR vote, MIC groupie

-90% Jimmy

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
18. Yes, I think they're bad
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 10:57 AM
Nov 2015

Can't comment on ALL trade deals of course, but if they fit the trend...

I think of the Democratic voters who are aware of these deals, too many really don't give a damn. And we know none of the Republicans care. I don't know what to do.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
22. Yes but an even graver threat to every non-investor around the globe.
Tue Nov 3, 2015, 01:37 PM
Nov 2015

Those who will benefit from these deals use the proceeds to shield themselves from those they extract wealth from. It was, will be and is ever thus.
Wall St exports our past sins to third world countries we can exploit and call it progress because it doesn't happen here.

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