General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsre: the afghan woman stoned to death: there are certain sects in THIS country (not just muslim)
who believe in death for adulterous women (not men!) they just haven't got the guts to actually do it openly. and perhaps we could look at domestic violence stats in this country, in addition to the continuous assaults on women's reproductive choices. we have absolutely NOTHING to be proud of when it comes to the treatment of women in THIS country, nothing to feel superior about.
and 3. . . 2. . . .1. . .
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)There are certainly many religious extremists in this country who believe in all kinds of horrible things, but why are you so confident that there are no Muslim extremists here who believe in the death penalty for adultery?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But are quite comfortable about the idea of implementing their version of Old Testament law.
Pick a religion, any religion, and the fundies of that religion are indistinguishable from any other religion.
pansypoo53219
(21,004 posts)niyad
(113,596 posts)between the xian nutbars and other fundamentalist groups. (could not fit all that into the title)
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and companies like Hobby Lobby that don't want to pay for contraception within their employee health plan.
But I'm struggling to recall any incidents in the US where a woman was physically punished for committing adultery, let alone stoned to death.
niyad
(113,596 posts)dembotoz
(16,852 posts)To. Have god on your side can be dangerous to others cause u can then justify anything
snooper2
(30,151 posts)fuck fundies
niyad
(113,596 posts)there, it is religion, here we call it domestic violence. sorry, our track record regarding women is nothing of which to be proud.
You have evidence that beating women to death or killing them by guns in the USA is more prevalent among the churchgoing crowd as opposed to the non-churchgoing crowd?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Women who commit adultery being sentenced to death and brutally stoned to death by a baying crowd of villagers only exists in certain countries, not this one.
niyad
(113,596 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)She was sentenced to death by those governing the village.
How this can be equated to individual acts of domestic violence mystifies me.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The heartbreaking footage shows the woman - who is accused of committing adultery - begging her dad to forgive her, saying "please father" and "forgive me".
But - despite his daughter being moments away from being brutally killed - he refuses and says: "I am not your father anymore".
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sickening-isis-video-shows-moment-4475785
But of course this is just like what happens in the US (according to the OP).
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The common denominator is men. Does not matter their religion or lack thereof.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Perhaps not in as large of numbers, but it's really hard to know the full extent of the problem due to considerable under-reporting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)And why is it 'shitty' to point out that women are capable of abusing men as well?
Do you deny it happens?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)For many years as a deputy all I did was domestic abuse cases, there were two of us that did noting but DV for the entire county.
There is almost as much domestic violence that stems from women to men as there is men to women. But men are far less likely to report it, or want action taken for a variety of reasons that are mostly cultural.
In addition I worked my share of cases involving gay male couples, lesbian couples, and couples with one or two trans persons.
Right here in NC.
Your statement that the common denominator in DV is men is patently false, and it's a bad stereotype- the perpetuation of which is part of the problem that discourages men who are the victims of abusive relationships to not seek help because people like you say DV can on be done by men.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Thank you. I was a social workers for years, practicing in the area of domestic violence. My experiences mirror yours.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Tell me about all of the women sending men to the hospitals with their fists. This is another deflection just like the "but cops have a hard job."
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)You can stay in denial all you want- but those of us who have actually worked these cases have seen it.
I've seen eyes gouged out, hammer blows to the head, a baseball bat to the knees, teeth knocked out- on men done by women or on women done by other women.
Not all domestic violence results in hospital stays. I've worked loads of cases of physical assaults on men by women thy didn't result in a trip to the hospital, and the idea that you can only measure it by trips to the hospital caused by fists is an idiotic standard and stance to take.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)It is what it is. Women are fully capable of committing domestic violence and abuse and it happens every day.
That's reality. You can sit in your fantasy land and pretend it doesn't, but that just leaves you ignorant of reality.
Your link is apples and oranges. DV is a problem in LE, I've even arrested officers from other agencies for it. But that doesn't have anything at all to do with what we are discussing.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Stick with facts.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)While its underreported because men are more reluctant to, it's well documented.
1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have been victims of [some form of] physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime.1
1 in 5 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime.1
http://www.ncadv.org/learn/statistics
survey taken by the CDC in 2010, it was found that 40% of the victims of severe, physical domestic violence are men.
http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/
http://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/
And this link from the UK with similar stats to the US:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)How about my link upthread to you. That is some really disturbing shit.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)That women are aggressor in DV cases somewhere around 40-45% of the time.
You seem to think that somehow point out that DV is an issue in police families, which it is, somehow changes the fact that women are often aggressors in DV.
One fact doesn't negate the other. DV is a problem in LE (although I question your links talk of the severity) and women are aggressors in 40-45% of DV cases. Both of those realities exist. You seem to be in denial of the latter and desperate to not acknowledge that it's reality.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Obviously in a toe-to-toe match with a man, a women is generally going to be on the losing end. Which is why women most often resort to a weapon as a force multiplier/equalizer.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Insinuations made of whole cloth in that manner are crap as well.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)"Keep telling yourself that women are out their pumiling mens faces like men to women. Such crap."
The above quote was meant to deflect Lee-lee's points in the previous post - which you apparently reject.
treestar
(82,383 posts)raccoon
(31,126 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Get back to me when the city council of Anywhere, USA sanctions death for adultery.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Are you really trying to equivalate the treatment of women in countries like Afghanistan where women have zero rights and stonings like this are the norm and accepted by society with repercussion? Those countries are just as bad as us? Really?
Countries where women are sold into marriage more often than not are just as bad as us? Really?
Countries where women must always cover their head and once the hit puberty must wear a burqa are just the same as us? Really?
Countries where the culture denies most women a basic education and any girl who goes to school risks death or injury not only to herself but her family just for going to school are the same as us? Really?
I've actually been to Afghanistan. I've actually gone into villiages there helping to do medical outreach and take supplies to schools. Women in the US don't face anything on the worst days like what every woman in these countries is born into and faces every day of her life.
Sure, we have a some bad actors in this country that try this. It isn't systemic and ingrained in our culture anything like it is in those countries, and here we punish them for acts of violence.
I suggest you first realize and admit that evil exists in the world, and get out of your bubble and realize that no, not all cultures are equally bad and yes, we are better than that and yes, we damm sure have a lot to be proud of when compared to those countries.
Your comparing the treatment or women in this country to the treatment of women there displays a huge ignorance and really minimizes the plight and suffering of those women.
B2G
(9,766 posts)niyad
(113,596 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)And it exists 10000x worse in those countries plus those women face things on a daily basis women don't face here- like being attacked for going to school, not allowed to drive, not allowed to hold a job...
You really need to leave your bubble and go visit these places. I tell you what- take your message to downtown Washignton and yell it to the passing people in the street dressed in your daily normal clothing, then go try the same thing in Kabul or Riyadh and let me know how it works out for you as a woman in each place...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2015, 03:10 PM - Edit history (1)
We don't have public executions because a woman was raped. We can drive, go out without permission of our male keepers, wear pretty much what we want, call the cops when we're beat up etc.
A public stoning by a mob of men is truly on a whole bother level imo.
I'm a fervent feminist and ardent women's rights advocate here and in real life. You're a kindred soul for me so please take my (mild) disagreement in a spirit of camaraderie.
niyad
(113,596 posts)what the others did not seem to understand is that I was saying only that this country has nothing to boast about when it comes to women's position here. but the exceptionalists will always say "but others have it so much worse", as though that were some sort of defense against the problems here.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)suffering of others, not wittingly I'm sure, but that is what you are doing.
I sure as hell do not excuse the stoning of LGBT persons by theocracies just because the US has bigots too.
I am super ultra sick of straight persons telling me that nations and groups gathering to systemically murder gay people are 'just like the US'.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)You post a lot of stuff that I consider over the top, but this one is just way too out there. Can you actually name one group who thinks that adulterous women should be killed?
niyad
(113,596 posts)you can consider it "over the top" and dismiss if you like. that does not change the reality.
Throd
(7,208 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'm a Christian and have never once heard another Christian call for the death penalty for adultery.
niyad
(113,596 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)climber3986
(107 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I still doubt she will find what she's looking for because it simply isn't true.
niyad
(113,596 posts)climber3986
(107 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)fits in with the "CHRISTIANS WANT TO STONE WOMEN!!!" meme.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)So far I have yet to come across any mention of the United States.
climber3986
(107 posts)my wife moved from Pakistan to the USA around 2004. The systematic abuse there suffered by women in various middle eastern / asian countries DOES NOT COMPARE to what women go through here. Sure there are sickos who beat or even kill their wives all around the world, however in Pakistan / Afghanistan / Iraq / Yemen there is a significant portion of the population who think it is acceptable to bury an adulteress wife in the ground and stone her to death, and then teach their children that this is acceptable, passing this horrible practice on to the next generation, which makes it WAY WORSE than one random sicko who kills his wife, as it makes killing an adulteress wife culturally acceptable, and vastly increasing the amount of systemic oppression, compared to one person who kills his wife, who is then rejected by his peers and sent to prison.
Just to clarify a point in your title thread, you are correct that this is NOT a Muslim issue, this is a cultural issue to several countries in the gulf area (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabai, Iraq)
There are plenty of moderate Muslim countries like Turkey where this practice is rejected.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)like the op did.
Until you see just what it's like it's almost impossible to fathom when you come from a place like the USA.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Although I will certainly not defend any religion (in absolute or relative terms),
in the name of objectivity, Islam, as currently practiced, is far more fundamentalist.
Pew Research results: about 50% Muslims worldwide believe adulterers should be stoned.
Muslim chamans (imams, mollahs) have made fundamentalism the norm.
While Christian fundamentalism is far less mainstream.
Even in the Bible belt, supporters of the stoning of adulterers are a lunatic fringe.
I hope.
dembotoz
(16,852 posts)maybe not as common as elsewhere but don't look too far down your noses.
perhaps look to the bombing of abortion clinics
or the gay or transgender kid who gets the snot beat out of them.....
Throd
(7,208 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)How many countries do you think this could happen in?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Unlike these countries where society approves of such behaviors and encourages it instead of punishes it, where its a daily fact of life instead of something so abhorrent that it makes news across the country.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Can't stand it, the Internet Media & whoever 'profits' from religious hate publicity- reports barbarian Men stoning woman- and will not PUSH a way to save their lives.
treestar
(82,383 posts)We are way ahead of stoning women for adultery. Give us at least credit for what we've done. Women here are treated way better than in Afghanistan.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)please provide recent examples where women in the US were brutalized and the community stood by in APPROVAL.
Then, please point out in our legal system, specific laws where women are allowed to be brutalized.
linuxman
(2,337 posts)You really have a serious perspective issue.
Come join me in Afghanistan. I'm sure you'll hardly want to go back to the US, seeing as to how you'll feel so at home here.
Women are killed in every country on earth. In some countries it's organized, advocated for, and supported by the family, the village, tradition, and the culture. In others, not so much. Most rational people can spot the difference.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)to what can happen, sometimes, within small groups in western cultures outside of the middle east.
Naive!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)I can recognize the horrible situation for women in another country while still wanting to improve things for women here too and fight regression. I'm not quite sure what your point is.