What the did Bush Cheney Rummy expect. So many comparisons were people have been Imprisoned or subject to abuse and some type of push back group is formed to seek their form of Justice. But,what the hay,it don't sell copy.

Of course not all Christians want to kill nor Muslims, does not make them any less what they claim to be, the teachings are all over the place in all religion....

Honestly not trying to downgrade anyone, if they claim to be such who am I to tell them they are not?

I didn't know that.

I thought he did regard himself a Christian.

TIMOTHY MCVEIGH WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2010/10/25/timothy-mcveigh-was-not-a-christian/

Truly chilling. I read it before 9-11 and I don't even want to think of the implications.

I don't particularly like most forms of Christianity, doesn't make those people not Christian.

one of the many collection of fairy tales - which inevitably include calls to annihilate/enslave/rape/torture the heathen unbelievers interspersed among the poetics - I take them at their word when they identify their "inspiration."

He said that science was his religion, though he'd been raised Catholic.

Lacked the courage of his convictions, hedged his bets.

there are probably not many atheists on gurneys.

Yes, those of us that are atheists are just trying so hard to fill that god-shaped hole in our hearts that as the end nears, we will reach out to our one true lord and savior and profess our love for the almighty.

The shit I read on a progressive site.

And isn't it understandable that some might wish to "hedge their bets" in such circumstances?

And, no, I don't think most atheists would "hedge their bets" in that circumstance. Most every atheist I know understand how fully idiotic Pascal's Wager is.

You don't see the offensiveness in your "well, you say you don't believe in a god, but you don't really mean it" attitude?

I was raised Catholic, bored out of my mind being dragged to mass every week, now completely lapsed and agnostic and don't really care or take any of this stuff seriously. If I was dying and had the chance of the Last Rites I would take them just to get the clean sweep of all of the Sacraments (minus ordination to the priesthood, of course).

Here, allow Homer Simpson to explain one of the major flaws in that line of thinking:

That guy's bravery deserves better than people assuming he chucked his entire belief system at the last minute.

http://www.skepticblog.org/2011/09/13/pat-tillmans-atheism/

Why not say the same thing about Jews? Maybe they all convert to Jesus at the last minute, like the fundies say they are supposed to, because they want to "hedge their bets". According to those same Fundies, a Jew who doesn't accept Jesus is going to the same "Hell" that an Atheist is.

So by your logic, would it be okay to say "There are no Jews in Foxholes"?

Why not?

You hear that shit repeated 50,000 times over the course of four or five decades, it gets old.

and suggested that you too would probably eventually come to have this belief, would you be highly offended, or would you be amused (and/or bemused)? And why would someone making the same claims about God be so much more offensive?

kids after getting off the school bus, for saying I didn't believe in the tooth fairy.

That did, however, happen to me when I made the mistake of answering "Atheist" when asked "what religion are you" (acceptable answers: Christian or Jewish). Which apparently was simply not done, back in the early 1970s. Little did I know!

So you'll excuse me if I treat these matters as something more than an abstract academic exercise.

Beyond that, no, I am not "highly offended" when some delusional sign-holder tells me I'm goin' to hell in a bucket because I don't believe in whatever spurious theological assertions they are promoting. Couldn't, actually, give a shit.

What I am telling you, however, is that "there are no Atheists in foxholes" is an offensive (and incorrect. and extremely tired and overused.) trope, which is inherently bigoted and does not belong on a progressive site.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I also don't really give a shit what people choose to believe, as long as they aren't blowing shit up because of it, writing draconian legislation imposing their faith on our secular constitutional government, or, for that matter, fucking up my kids' science class curriculum with it.

However, if people want to have a discussion about the fundamental logical underpinnings of what they believe- and hell, even if they don't, it's a discussion board, no one has to participate- people who believe in God/Jesus/Jehovah/Zeus/Quetzlcoatl don't get any special pleading logical argument considerations, any more than someone who believes in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny.

If peoples' faith is so strong, they should be able to handle Atheists going "God is just pretend" just like I can handle people telling me I'll go to hell if I don't accept Jesus as MOPS. This is, please note, fundamentally different from condescendingly telling Atheists they will convert when the chips are down, just like my expression of disbelief/skepticism is not the same thing as me telling you you'll renounce God if you were to get hit by a bus.

One is a personal statement of belief or lack thereof, the other is a baseless and presumptuous assertion about the belief of another. Dig?

Fundies can be assholes because...



Oh, do the fucked up shit my holy book says- Eternity in "heaven", worshiping a egotistical "thing"

when I am waiting outside the Pearly Gates wondering whether I will be admitted.

Given that the year in Paris kicked off with an atheist magazine getting attacked, I think it's safe to say that your comment is quite tone deaf and very offensive to the victims.

with potentially lethal illnesses. I remained an atheist.

We tend to say things like "oh, shit!" when we're confronted with mortality. We don't believe in magic.

Sorry to bust ya bubble, but there it is.

in any Christian country.

I think this comparison is highly insulting to Christianity.

ISIS kills in the name of Allah, wants people to convert to islam, and wants to bring the world back to the view of the muslim caliphate.

Nothing like that in modern Christianity.

McVeigh did not have tens of thousands of radicalized youth on his side.

...ISIS is not Muslim based on their actions and neither is Timothy Christian based on his actions.
Sorry my sarcasm didn't come across very clear.

God is a Concept by which we measure our pain
I'll say it again
God is a Concept by which we measure our pain


Then he listed a long series of deified things in which he did not believe at all.

I agree with John.

The Klan is part and parcel of modern Christian history... regardless of the irrelevancy finding that insulting or not. What the Klan did in the course of 75 years is indeed and in fact, equivalent (again, regardless of whether you find that insulting or not).

It seems your biases are denying you a reasoned and rational analyses of the given premise.

but yes, that is the best example of contemporary atrocities perpetrated by fundamentalist Christian extremists. Some like to invoke the Crusades, presumably because of the higher body count, but looking back hundreds of years is kind of silly.

to setting up a fundamentalist Christian Caliphate through murder and terror. Or at least that's what some seem to believe.

to demonstrate someone's true and deep adherence to that religion.

Or do you truly believe this simplistic silliness?

Muhammad and his disciples didn't spread Islam through war and conquest?

Therefore, this shows that Christianity was spread by war and conquest. As was the US itself.

The only innocents are Muslims. Others are Kafirs who need to either convert or die.

persons. This 'faith' they claim to have can not be seen and therefore I don't accept that it is real, I see the person and their actions. They have nothing to hide behind.

the vast majority of them are just ruthless opportunists using religion as their excuse.

More specifically GOP helped create ISIS by voting for and supporting an illegal war in Iraq, now many of those same GOP bastards don't want to deal with an obvious side effect of the policies they support and supported. Typical of conservatives. Never think things through, act all tough and bold at the moment, then when their fuck-ups lead to more problems, they put the blame on other people.

The fact that they are more extreme than the Saudi regime doesn't obscure their roots.

The clear majority of Muslims worldwide believe that they are "doing it wrong", but they are indeed Muslim.

By claiming that they are an Islamic state, they are invoking certain Koranic clauses that have to do with both loyalty to Islam and an Islamic government. Thus, they derive from those clauses that everyone not supporting them is apostate, and deserved death. This is more extreme than the Saudi version.

They base their philosophies and actions on a fairly straightforward - if unpopular - reading of the Quran. Religion energizes and motivates everything they do.

Your statement is nonsense on it's face. A Muslim is one who submits to the Will of Allah; these men clearly feel they are doing that. I will take them at their word.

I don't think Timothy "Science is my God" McVeigh did anything similar.

as Muslim as the man who shot the abortion Doctor is Christian.

As Muslim as the GOP is Christian.

Terrorists are just more militant about imposing their beliefs on others than the run of the mill evangelist.

The Paris terrorists did act in the name of Islam

up and shooting, right?

No?

OK

Hey, i get it, you are skeered of Muslims