Look at the shadows from the gun -- and now at the shadows around his neck. That's clearly Sid Dithers' roflhead crudely pasted onto Octafish's body.

Follow the money.

Show where I've intentionally lied or presented information that was not true on DU.

Go through my Journal on DU3 or DU2.

I don't find the assassination of President Kennedy funny. So show where I'm wrong about it or stop smearing me.

Not the one who made it. Take it up with them.

Feel free to laugh all you want.

Not the one making the joke. You should respond to them.

And I laugh at the BS CT's you post all the time. Especially when you said Kennedy was for world peace. Remind me again who ramped up Eisenhower's policies in Vietnam? Strategic Hamlet? Initiating the CIA coup against Ngo Dinh Diem?
World peace, indeed.

One example, missing from history and apparently your awareness, Dr Hobbitstein:

CIA head Allen Dulles and JCS chairman Lyman Lemnitzer counseled the United States launch an all-out "war of choice" on the USSR and China. The best time to attack was 'Fall 1963."

If we had an honest news media, they'd report how both obstructed justice in the investigation of President Kennedy's assassination.

Instead:

Ratical, the site you just linked to, is full of 9/11 truther bullshit, soy conspiracies, and (one of my personal favorites) cell phone microwave conspiracies. So, if this site can't get the basic science behind soy and non-ionizing radio waves right, what makes you think they would be correct about anything else?

Keep your tinfoil hat on tight, my fishy friend.

James Galbraith is a top academic, the son of the ambassador/economist.

Here's what the Boston Globe wrote about the assassination of President Kennedy, that so few other publications and no television news covered -- the president's brother, US Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, thought the assassination was the work of a right wing conspiracy:

“I have seen all of the matters in the archives. If I became president of the United States, I would not reopen the Warren Commission Report. I stand by the Warren Commission Report.”

That's a direct quote by RFK.

RFK is smearing you, Octafish. Take it up with him.

That's what his son and daughter, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Rory Kennedy, reported in an interview with Charlie Rose last weekend in Dallas.



It's also what author and Salon founder David Talbot reported, when he called Robert F. Kennedy the "first conspiracy theorist" in 2007.

Here's why the news from Robert and Rory is so important:

The one who makes this claim, is an absolute loon. Crazy anti-vaxxer. I wouldn't believe anything that came out of his mouth.

How do his posts here hurt you? Are you aware that you have an ignore button? Do you realize you are bordering on bullying this poster?

About Octafish's crazy CT theories. I made a comment about it, and Octafish came after me, not the poster making the joke. He's a big boy, he can fight his own battles.

I agree. he can fight his own battles

Just refuting his claims and sources.

Is that it, then? Everyone who's presented forensic evidence to support their being more than a lone nut is .... a loon?

The loon defense is not good enough. What may be better is for you to inform yourself. Students of history don't have to default to the "loon defense" and show pictures of themselves and their cats dressed up to support the "loon defense".

RFK Jr is a loon for his anti-vaxxer stance (as is ANY anti-vaxxer), which is exactly what I said.

You probably don't read what you don't like to read, I'm betting. It gets in the way of pasting the tin foil picture to your posts that call people with scientific questions "loons"

Here... take that foil off your head, give your cat a break and read what he really said. I find it sad that posters who love to create their own little world of "CT" posts have to be told again.

Link: http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/vaccines.html

And he equates Thimerosal with autism, which is 100% unsubstantiated BULLSHIT. He's just like Jenny McCarthy on this one. Full of bullshit with NOTHING to back it up.

Furthermore it hasn't been in children's vaccines since 2001, yet he still rails about it.
Fuck RFK, Jr. He's an anti-science asshat.
Read, yourself.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/robert-kennedy-jrs-belief-in-autism-vaccine-connection-and-its-political-peril/2014/07/16/f21c01ee-f70b-11e3-a606-946fd632f9f1_story.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/RFK-Jr-vaccine-CDC-cesspool/2015/06/01/id/648103/

Your blind hate is noted and pitied, as it only should be. It must anger you that people question science. I guess they're loons when they do it during a time that provocation needs to be stirred up.

Of course, t's not nearly as provocative as the effects of posting pictures of foil on your cat's head?

There's one born every day.... - Everything is Loon!

I do have a problem REPEATEDLY questioning the exact same thing that has been proven time and again to not be a thing.

RFK, Jr. is a loon for repeatedly going after something that isn't true. And the "whistleblower from the CDC" that RFK Jr touts, is nothing more than a conspiracy theory made up by the anti-vax movement.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/07/30/the-return-of-the-revenge-of-the-cdc-whistleblower/

Who can question someone who is a megalomaniac and has "MD" behind them, right?

Meanwhile, your own hate keeps you from reading only what you want to support anything you decide to call, "LOON!"

You own it.

Whatever you say.

And Octafish cannot 'take it up' with him because like his brother he got killed, didn't he? He knew how the system worked because he'd been raised as a part of it. He'd been by his brother's side during his presidency. He was advocating ending the war in Vietnam and was a strong proponent of civil rights. I've always wondered if (or which) of those particular stances had anything to do with his killing. I never considered Sirhan a random shooter. You know, just a 'randomly gun down a front running presidential candidate for no reason' type of guy? I think not.

I had a professor in undergrad school who wrote an obscure book called Kennedy and La Cosa Nostra, which basically took the position that RFK was killed by the mob because when Attorney General he had cracked down on organized crime so hard. Was that a conspiracy theory? Was this guy unstable or imbalanced? Mentally deficient?

LOL, well I sat through some of his classes, and he was a nice enough guy. Smart. Ph.D. in History. Good at research. Knew his stuff.

But I'd hardly call him unstable, imbalanced or mentally deficient. See, that's pejorative - merely dismissing his theory as a 'conspiracy' without delving into his facts are systematically refuting them. And that is the exact issue I'm taking with your posts, with all due respect. Some things you can't just laugh off.

And I know RFK is dead. Octafish likes to claim that anyone who argues against the bullshit he spouts is smearing him. RFK's only direct quote from that article opposes what Octafish claims, therefore--in fishy logic--RFK was smearing the good DUer (and my personal friend) Octafish.

I never called anyone unstable or imbalanced, however. Those were your words.

having seen what happened to his brother. His intent upon election, however, was to further his brother's policies around curtailing the MIC by getting out of Vietnam, and poking the powers that be with civil rights advocacy. Like JFK, he had a pretty sharp vision of what this nation should be and was quite willing to vigorously attack how the nation is (was).

So, basically, I'm saying that one quote is a bit cloudy and that maybe we shouldn't just take it at face value.

I'm glad you and Octafish are friends, but I've got to still stand by what I said regarding so-called conspiracy theories. Seems to me that we often find ourselves being TOO dismissive when we should be digging deeper. Not like aliens and shit, you understand, but things like corporate collusion? You bet. I wouldn't put anything past some of those people because they are not really immoral - they have an absence of morality all together - they are amoral.

What this amorality looks like is akin to the people Himmler and Heydrich hired who could look at a concentration camp and see ways to make the death assembly line more efficient without seeing the horror of the camps themselves. Now, lest you say this is a spurious (or perhaps scurrilous) comparison, think about this:

Today's corporate 'c-class' are people who can be nice to their children and to animals while at the same time knowingly poisoning a water table with carcinogenic chemicals. And they can feel GOOD about earning $millions per year doing it, because they 'create value.' I mean, if people are willing to go that far, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to 'remove' someone who is threatening profits, does it?

Guess I'm just not a capitalist, though I don't have any trouble at all with small business and entrepreneurship. It's just that these huge multi-nationals are another thing altogether.

supports establishment propaganda by ridiculing anything that can make the establishment look bad.

Author Floyd Rudmin, the social psychologist writes:
“Conspiracy theory” is usually used as a pejorative label, meaning paranoid, nutty, marginal, and certainly untrue. The power of this pejorative is that it discounts a theory by attacking the motivations and mental competence of those who advocate the theory. By labeling an explanation of events “conspiracy theory,” evidence and argument are dismissed because they come from a mentally or morally deficient personality, not because they have been shown to be incorrect. Calling an explanation of events “conspiracy theory” means, in effect, “We don’t like you, and no one should listen to your explanation.”

In earlier eras other pejorative labels, such as “heresy,” “witchery,” and “communism” also worked like this. The charge of “conspiracy theory” is not so severe as these other labels, but in its way is many times worse. Heresy, witchcraft, and communism at least retain some sense of potency. They designate ideas to be feared. “Conspiracy theory” implies that the ideas and their advocates are simple-minded or insane.

All such labels implicitly define a community of orthodox believers and try to banish or shun people who challenge orthodox beliefs. Members of the community who are sympathetic to new thoughts might shy away from the new thoughts and join in the shunning due to fear of being tainted by the pejorative label.

What you are basically doing is ridiculing someone who thinks differently than you or looks at 'facts' differently than you. The fallacy in this is that you aren't refuting them based on facts of your own that you take the trouble to cite; instead you are simply attempting to silence with ridicule. Doesn't wash.

This document caused quite a stir when it was discovered in 1977. Dated 4/1/67, and marked "DESTROY WHEN NO LONGER NEEDED", this document is a stunning testimony to how concerned the CIA was over investigations into the Kennedy assassination. Emphasis has been added to facilitate scanning.

CIA Document #1035-960, marked "PSYCH" for presumably Psychological Warfare Operations, in the division "CS", the Clandestine Services, sometimes known as the "dirty tricks" department.

Funny how the document is judiciously ignored, but when you come out with some other idea than the Warren Commission findings then look out!

calling what is in your brain facts is hyperbole to say the least.

...Octafish post. Not just you stating unequivocally that he is wrong and a "loon".

You guys are always quick to criticize and poke fun, but you fail to produce anything but your derision.

If they presented these plans to Kennedy in 1961 and he told them 'no' it doesn't necessarily mean this was a causal factor in his assassination, but it does make one wonder.

During this century, new documents and transcripts including voice tapes continue to be uncovered from the AARB and from the presidential libraries of John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. We know that Kennedy was pulling out of Southeast Asia completely, that the murders of Diem and his brother were engineered by CIA-tool Amb. Henry Cabot Lodge, to Kennedy's shock and horror, and that JFK saved the world from nuclear annihilation at the hands of the Joint Chiefs by making a backdoor deal with Kruschev to thwart JSOC efforts at delivering a first strike, which they regarded as critically necessary before the end of 1963. JSOC had no problem with 30 million killed, tops. We know that the Johnson Commission, titularly headed by Earl Warren, was in fact dominated by Allen Dulles, a fascist traitor to this country if ever there was one.

'The Devil's Chessboard?'

I get frustrated sometimes because it seems to me the prohibition on this site and others around conspiracy theories acts to keep new information from arising, and casts new information into unnecessary doubt once it does arise.

I was five when Kennedy was shot, and can remember what my dad told me. He saw footage once, just once, he said, that to him as a combat vet clearly showed the bullets came from the front, not the back. In short, I have always felt the assassination an inside job - a coup-de-etat by the MIC. Now, it seems that new information has indeed arisen around this, and is in this book by Talbot showing Allen Dulles for the monster he was.

Talbot's a somewhat credible historian, and my question to those who moderate on this site is what if he's right?

Because, you see, if it came out in any credible way whatsoever that Kennedy was killed for the sake of potential MIC profits, it might change some things. Oh, I know that putting tin foil hats on people who (giggle) offer up 'conspiracy theories' (titter) is de-rigeur for the corporate-owned media, because the corporations that own the media use them to further their own propaganda and having the American people find out the truth, and that the truth was hidden from them, ridiculed as part of an establishment conspiracy is the last thing they want.

Why? Because they have conspired through neoliberal capitalism to freely move capital, money, and labor anywhere in the world through so-called 'free trade,' and are making their move to end nation states and replace them with corporate governance through TPP. Read it. It's obvious if you can bring yourself to wade through the obtuse language.

So, to end, I'm not saying yea or nay to the idea that Kennedy's assassination was in effect a coup-de-etat by the MIC. All I'm doing is asking how should we all react if that turns out to be true? Will it still be hidden? Ridiculed? Discouraged?

Just wondering.

The hows and whys of the assassination are so clear that Stevie Wonder could describe the picture.

That book and James Douglass' "JFK and the Unspeakable" leave zero doubts as to why John Kennedy was killed and who had him killed. ZERO.

All of the evidence points in only one direction.

Charles deGaulle thought the CIA approved a hit on him. Yeah, that Charles deGaulle - French resistance leader and President of France for ten years.

deGaulle was certain that Kennedy was killed by the same people who nearly killed him in 1961.

So deGaulle is a woo merchant, too?

if they are OTT they can be disrespectful of the late President Kennedy.

One example:

http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/archive/index.php/t-51817.html

I'd ask if they're friends of yours, but, you know, I respect you as a DUer, MineralMan.

So, no, they're not friends of mine. Why would I go to a website with a name like that? For that matter, why did you?

Now you're here, "serving" as Forum Host and what-not, helping decide what stays posted and what gets locked.

So, when I see your condescending posts about me, I think of the conservatives, like these:

http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=99014.0

But, yes, I'm here. I was banned from Free Republic in 2006 for "anti-Freeping" and haven't been back there since. You also mention another site in a link. They make fun of me there, too, along with a lot of active DUers. They might make fun of you, too, although I don't visit that site more than a couple of times a year, just to see who wins their little contest.

Just keep on posting. Don't pay any attention to what others say. That's my advice.

Otherwise, you're helping smear me.

weird theories based on questionable websites. Sorry. JFK CT stuff is part of all that. Good luck in all your endeavors.

The Warren Commission's theory is that LHO acted alone.

Thanks to Allen Dulles and J Edgar Hoover, they didn't even bother investigating the possibility of co-conspirators. They also did not mention that the CIA had contracted the Mafia to murder Fidel Castro in 1960, when Eisenhower was president and Dulles headed CIA:

So, if the 1960 election had gone according to plan, Nixon would've been president during the Bay of Pigs. From all accounts, he likely would've sent in the Marines, along with the Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard, making Allen Dulles and Meyer Lansky and all their rich and corrupt friends very, very happy again.

Last edited Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I see it now Octa, never really noticed before but H2Oman is on the money. Not a one of them will debate you on these issues. No wonder they cannot stand you posting here. I get it now.

Wow...to think all this time it was that petty and over jealousy. Hard to tell with supposed skeptics, because some really are the real thing.

Maybe one day you will get one of them to debate you...but I doubt it ever, they are way out of their field of expertise. Again...this is funny...seeing it now as it is. Jealousy over lack of critical thinking.

The great DUer blm once invited Rush Limbaugh to debate with me about BCCI. Vulgar Pigboy never answered.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4831131

Among my treasured moments on DU, Rex, along with this one!

he is.

I do not "alert" on posts, even one that is as obviously in violation of the rules here as those found throughout this OP/thread. Indeed, in this case, I look at what is being posted as a badge of honor ....evidence that your contributions annoy certain types of people. And that's a good thing -- a person can be measured by their enemies.

Democracy.

I simply brush off comments about out-of-context things I wrote 6 years ago and before.

They are almost always made by folks who can't really refute something I'm saying now, as if those references had any real meaning.

"I don't do 'conspiracy theories.'"

What the hell have we been living since Nov. 22, 1963, then? Wars without end for black gold and corporate rulers, middle class and good jobs evaporating as banksters who looted the Treasury get billions in taxpayer-financed bonuses and TPP no-bid legislation, and the richest times in human history show almost ALL the money going into the pockets of the multi-millionaires and billionaires.

Oh, well. That's just the way things "are." No use in asking questions about it.

...

CONSPIRACIES!!!

i would rather jump off a bridge before I sat at a table with those people!Jesus Christ!!

on this underground message board place.

So what the hell????? people voting against themselves?

what is going on??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

People, that "damning picture" is a photograph of a GOVERNOR's GATHERING, attended by most if not all of the governors of the states of the USA, that was hosted by the Vice President of the USA, GHW Bush. To his right is GOVERNOR Bill Clinton, and to his left is GOVERNOR George Wallace.

Shit--trying to make it like Bill and Racist George went up to Kenny-bunk-port to conspire with GHW....

SMH.

For shame.


Loook....LOOOOOOOOK!!!! Here's JFK passing Bill Clinton the key to the secret room in the White House....once Bill got that key, he knew he had to do everything he could to become President and learn all of the Secret Society Secrets of the Grand Order of Horseshit Conspirators....Oooooooooh woooooooooooo!!!!

As for the rest of your shaming, I remember you as the poster who put words in my mouth to shame me when I wrote about the State Department and the TPP all up and down this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027079972

LOL, It's MADem!

Please don't be ambiguous. Thanks.

Did you see this, UTUSN, from David Talbot?

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/22/inside_the_plot_to_kill_jfk_the_secret_story_of_the_cia_and_what_really_happened_in_dallas/

And we get to spread it, seeing how the nation's news media are AWOL, and the super rich keep getting richer and the middle class disappear into the mass of poor, while the planet is pillaged in wars without end on innocent nations. WTF.

Everyday I tune into DU to see what the bug people are up to, and who is slinging poo at whom.

But I sure didn't expect to see a flame war based on a long dead president.

I'm retiring BS'ers and switching to Bug People!

Hilaraious.

Goes for the swatters as well.

Ideas like democracy, justice, equality, education, science, public works, commonwealth of man, culture, the arts...

7wo7rees, THIS is why it is worth it. President Kennedy represented what might be , like going to the moon and world peace, if only we try.

don't have as much worthwhile to say as 1 paragraph of an Octafish post.

Stupid. Trashing.

'fish has forgotten ten times as much as those morans will ever know.

and don't need to see the others.

Because...like you said.

😊

this thread is all kinds of awesome.



Sid

Indeed it is.