either way, workplace argument or jihad, it's terrifying.

has this made it to the networks yet? Not on NBC. Not saying it's not accurate....just a very fluid situation.

in real time.

Andrea no less....

I could "recommend" your post!

any role in this shooting is verboten and racist.

In fact it was almost entirely motivated by extremist religious ideology.

EXACTLY what motivated Goldstein. So I don't understand your point.

and the extremism of Muslim terrorists isn't typical of Islam, either (probably less so considering that Islam has a billion adherents).

that I have no problem calling what Goldstein did Jewish extremism, so many here are loathe to utter the words Islamic extremism, even thought that's exactly what it is. There is no implication that ALL adherents of those religions are responsible.

And multiple shooters. These things are not the watchwords and countersigns of simple workplace violence.

Who knew?

body armor, and shaved head white guys? I'm going to assume racism.

Assault rifles, multiple shooters, body armor, and fat white dudes with beards? Militia/Christian Indentity is a reasonable take-away.

And if in those situations a DUer made those assumptions nobody here would say shit. No scolding from the schoolmarm crowd would result, because those situations would not tread on our site-wide self-inflicted blind spot.

After all, there's plenty of shootings that don't line up at all with your model. Even the two new ones you decided to drag out.

How 'bout this novel idea: Let's wait for some actual fucking evidence. Because then you don't look dumb when these "Islamic fundamentalists" included a woman (big no-no) who was wearing shorts (bigger no-no).

I'll freely grant you those are both fairly solid counterarguments to my view.

Some unfortunate biases are being exposed tonight.

Does Paris ring a bell?

There have been Palestinian suicide bombers. Palestinians are generally not Islamic fundamentalists.

That radical Islam has 'rules' the prohibit women from participating in jihad and attacking people?

Show me where it's a "no-no" in their eyes.

Last I heard no group had been implicated. There are plenty of radical groups out there who have no problem with women doing such a thing.

rape victims. But other women, who are family to jihadi and trusted are definitely trained and allowed to fight. I'm sure they wait till they've had kids and are expendable because they are less desired. They just treat younger women like such utter shit if you didn't grow up in that life accepting it, they wouldn't trust you with weapons.

Into knots trying to deny what they are about and capable of.

their heart. Poverty or even fear of it, anger at discrimination that undoubtably does exist. I think the link shows this guy has not worked there since 2013 or 14, so that could have sparked it, also could have been mentally ill.
But how does he get others to join in? If they were deeply religious, she may have been trained into obedience, his brother may have radicalized him. I tend to think if he was healthy, and had a good marriage and job, it would never have happened.

And profoundly sickening.

Right??

I assumed that sort of thinking was more common among the hard right, but apparently not.

And, again, the guy appears to have worked with the people he killed.

I wonder if the other two are the ...well I don't want to over-speculate.

Looking more and more like a motivation that shall not be named on DU

The rest of us are more than willing to acknowledge reality.

Then feel free to name it.

Sorry if that is something you can't acknowledge.

Not a motivation. The original poster referred to a motivation that shall not be named.

Sorry if that encroaches on your personal "this is what I hope it is" worldview.

However, with the amount of facts known so far, no one can ascribe a motive with any certainty. Throwing out "Muslim extremists" and stamping your feet that it must be so is intellectually weak. And dangerous.

Because I would bet money on Muslim Extremists. That would be a smart bet, just in terms of the odds of winning money on a bet.

I absolutely would.

But I would still bet on Muslim Extremist terrorism.

What charity you plan on donating to?



Source: CNN

San Bernardino, California (CNN)

San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook was in touch over the phone and via social media with more than one international terrorism subject who the FBI were already investigating, law enforcement officials said.

It appears that Farook was radicalized, which contributed to his motive, though other things -- like workplace grievances -- may have also played a role, other law enforcement sources said.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html

Not really.

Thanks for posting this. The narratives today are somewhat bizarre, in the face of the obvious.

and excuse a philosophy that hates people like us is fucking mystifying.

and something else I already forgot!

But there seem to be some arrows pointing..

have been stolen and registered to Sayed?

or are law enforcement sure he was involved in the shootings?

or have they.

I think they know though. There will be a press conference later of a Muslim organization and supposedly they are condemning the attack. What does that tell us? Maybe they know him. Still, all info is suspect now.

I am with you! It's fucking INSANE!

Stop denying the obvious facts. Some people here are like conservative climate change deniers, they refuse to see what makes them uncomfortable.

if this is what it appears to be. I appreciate you having the courage to call it like you see it. I hope you're wrong. It looks like you are not.

I don't understand it.

Being supportive (or at least not condemning) of anything conservatives hate gets a lot of mileage here no matter how hideous it may be. Many go out of their way to minimize hateful anti-intellectual horsecrap because they don't want to be thought of as racist or judgmental.

Given a chance to explain to jihadists just how accommodating, tolerant, and open-minded to other's beliefs they are will still get their throats slit anyway.

Most (NOTE THE ABSENCE OF "ALL", PEOPLE!) Muslims are not white skinned, religious, live in poor countries, and are part of societies that have now or had in the past conflict with the western imperial powers. That's a homerun of oppressed status victim-hood in DU eyes that makes them immune from criticism, despite that same most qualifier applying also to misogyny, homophobia, theocracy and conservatism.

n/t

That's how it's falling into place..

Anyone who has money to blow on travel to a huge event like that must have pissed him off on some level.

Was upset at being kicked out of a study group and just happened to have a manifesto with multiple references to allah.

I wonder if he took maternity leave only to go abroad. Because that's unusual if his wife was not working, which appears to be the case.

so you've got to wonder if he believed in the virgins schtick.

Sometimes the smart ones just go nutters

in health policy, yet he believes the creationist schtick.

Violence in America by American? Can't be...

Gives me the warmest fucking feeling inside. Sorry Dad, but your asshole son was not the kind of "religious" that matters.

I want to know why he shot up his co-workers.
Fuck all religions

Aside from skin color and native language, there isn't much difference between Syed Farook and Robert Dear...

nt

At this point, pretty much any man with a Middle Eastern accent could "identify himself as Farook’s father" to the Daily News' satisfaction.

They just do these horrific acts of violence to demonstrate to the rest of us how to we should NOT behave... I think.

saying he's radicalized. They're not even talking about him, in fact.

Everyone is like "Who is Robert Lewis Dear?"