Seems like a pretty big faux pas. Why bother with visas if they're not checked out?

you'd think it'd get followed up.

pay cuts, and firing freezes. Yes people, Federal employees DO IMPORTANT WORK. When you attack the federal workforce, there are consequences. Make every GOP member of Congress own this

It sure doesn't for me.

are the same?

Even if they were, and I would doubt it, I am not willing to refuse admission to tens of thousands of innocents just because one or two may be killers.

You may be willing to do that, others here, not me.

would initiate more scrutiny.

Don't you?

Not no not most of course what I of course was trying to say was brown people are not the problem even though that seems to be who many are worried about

What?

out that Brown people arent the problem

Yeah, I guess the few exceptions are insignificant, unless of course they happen to kill someone you love.

Tone deaf. But not surprising.

14 people, shit happens, right?

I refuse to let this SB situation turn into a reason to say no to refugees.

But that is just me.

You, on the other hand, haven't shown a shred of compassion for the murdered. Just the usual snark about "brown people" as if Wednesday was a total joke and an affront to your agenda.

because of brown people. How dare anyone argue otherwise here on DU? Tone deaf? I think there are plenty of other posts in this thread that would merit that criticism, and that's putting it kindly.

put a fictitious address on an official form to get into the U.S. and apparently no one bothered to check the address before approving her. I don't care what color she was.

My wife's family is from way out in the boondocks of Vietnam. The houses don't have numbers. Is someone from the embassy in Saigon (excuse me, Ho Chi Minh City) going to drive out into the country to research the existence of every home address on every visa application. It is like finding a home address in the U.S. with a postal address of something like "RFD #2, West Bum Fuck, Wyoming".

but not a brown person?

Or should I not worry about anyone giving false addresses?

In which case why are we paying people to do vetting?

It might take longer, but Syria has no/very limited databases to even check against.

It's basically their word.

What makes you confident they are even doing their jobs?

That comes across as suicidal naivete. You may be willing to risk "one or two" mass murdering terrorists into the country, I'm not.

Yeah, I will never agree with you on that one.

Get rid of the guns and you wouldnt have to worry, BTW

Your zeal to appear broadminded has clouded your comprehension.

Go back and read every single one of my posts in this thread and there is ZERO to warrant your bullsh*t assumption.

I think borders are stupid, by the way

What about Turkey/Syria? Or Israel/Lebanon?

I hope you plan on kissing goodbye every benefit and safety net we already have or are trying to procure. And I hope you are satisfied with wages going down.

The citizens within a defined border are a group of people who contribute to the general good through taxation. It is expected that some cannot contribute (well...in progressive countries), but that those who can't will be cared for by those who can.

Constantly migrating groups of people create havoc on the social safety net, which is why virtually every country in the world has immigration policies limiting immigrants to the number of people the nation can easily absorb.

You have nothing to offer Canada? They won't let you in if you can't contribute to the social safety net, unless, of course, you are a special case like a refugee fleeing a dangerous environment.

I always hear people pontificating about going there because America is so awful. Who says they want you?

They have immigration policies. In fact, many have stricter immigration policies than we do (no porous south border), precisely because they have better developed social contracts among their citizens.

Governments do have the right to regulate their immigration policies.

For instance, here in Korea there was a huge stink about people on E visas (teaching visas) needing a background check and HIV test (this is because most were working with children). In the end, those people are visitors in Korea and have to abide by the laws of the host country. If you don't, then they boot you out. In your U.S. passport it says pretty much the same thing.

BTW before you or anyone else goes off on me, I support bringing refugees into the US. South Korea and the US taken in North Korean refugees all the time (granted not at the huge numbers that are coming from Syria). I also believe despite the massive influx of people from Syria to other countries right now, that eventually the country will become peaceful again and some of those who fled will want to return to their home country to help rebuild.

Then it is entirely preventable by a simple Google maps search to verify that the street even exists. No address, no entry.

If we aren't at least verifying the info of every Syrian immigrant, then we deserve what we get at election time.

Here is the report on the poll http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/13-percent-syrian-refugees-support-isis-poll

Full report here: http://english.dohainstitute.org/file/Get/40ebdf12-8960-4d18-8088-7c8a077e522e

that's 2000 supporters of ISIS out of 20,000, not 2. Does it change your point of view?

And it's not about skin color (many Syrians -like Bachar- have a very white skin)

it's about ideology.

n/t

I repeat: 13% of Syrian refugees have sympathy for ISIS

http://english.dohainstitute.org/file/Get/40ebdf12-8960-4d18-8088-7c8a077e522e

On Sat Dec 5, 2015, 09:01 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7421185

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Please read the short thread. This poster opposes the acceptance of Syrian refugees based on dubious facts. Very hateful and bigoted.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 5, 2015, 09:12 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If the facts are dubious refute them. The person is allowed an opinion.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: normally I would be all for statistics, but when they are dubious and used to demonize, then they must be scrutinized. It would be one thing is the UN, or even CIA or RT complied this data, but when ti is questionable, and then the OP says this is affirmed proof of all syrians, it is dangerous. You need to cite a neutral source if you are going to risk demonizing people
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Dubious facts are not hide worthy. Argue, explain your point of view, tell the poster why you think they're wrong. But alerting because you disagree with someone's position isn't how DU is supposed to work.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Or, as juror #4 put it:

It's not the data. It's how you're using that data to promote the kind of ideology that leads to things like internment camps. You more than deserved a hide.

Let's see what you think should be supported on DU

•1: Are you contesting the study?
If so, I am interested to learn better, more accurate facts and will change my opinion.

•2: if you are not contesting the study, are you contesting my conclusion?
The study says one person in 7 among Syrian refugees have a positive opinion of ISIS (figure 11 page 19). Is your opinion Syrian refugees should be welcomed regardless?
If so, how do you assess the risk one person in 7 having a positive opinion of ISIS would pose once in the US?

I am quite willing to change my apparently insufferable opinion if you explain to me why it is totally wrong and unacceptable.

If 2 out of 20,000 gun owners are killers, say no guns to all?

in hardware.

Which guns are simply proven to be too much harm even if 99.999% of the owners of said weapons never use them or have them used for nefarious reasons.

It seems to me like you are okay putting a few lives at risk, but only when it is in support of your agenda. That's fine, but let's not pretend that it's something other than that.

I have no idea what you're talking about now.

Just because of a few bad apples, it's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This is the gun argument. It's also the argument you're making. You are comfortable using it for refugees/terrorists, but not with guns/criminals.

a minute or two?

Whether they are fully auto weapons which were altered illegally or legal semi auto weapons.

Why?

Into the country? Why?

it may have failed in this particular instance, but for the most part, it's a very good and thorough screening process.
There are always going to be mistakes, that's just human nature, but the US has a very good system in place and it's always being refined as new problems reveal themselves.

That is because I stole from you.

Soon they are gonna be talking about you and me

What does the Carter quote say?

Fucking Raygun had to commit treason to stop him.

Of course if they researched every little detail about everyone, the backlog would be in the hundreds of thousands, and nobody would get in...

We need a congressional investigation into how someone with a fictitious address was allowed inside without checking the info.

She would just be entering the country...it takes from 18 to 24 months for a refugee to gain entrance. I guess not as long on a fiancé visa!

more than likely one of the millions of foreigners working in SA. I don't think Saudis even wash their own dishes, do they?

But I imagined she put in her home address like she was supposed to do.

I would imagine that the FBI agents in Saudi Arabia are looking into her associations over there.

The reason he turned from living a good life to thawing it all away will turn up.

But wouldn't that require her or her family to do a bit of work to correct the mistake?

out who started it off. It may even be the husband as he and a messianic jew at work would have verbal battles back and forth. Sooner or later the info will come out.

The family was said to follow the Barelvi version of Sunni Islam, which is considered more into spiritualism than militancy. But sources said it was likely that she had converted to the Salafi/Wahabi version of Islam after spending most of her life in Saudi Arabia.

And only being a woman she was really nothing to the family. Probably very happy to send their well trained Wahabi warrior to the U.S. with a horny young man.

People everywhere are going tinfoil about no photo

yes, some share the same info but the refugee process is much more involved.

The comments on this thread make me wonder.

is that the refugee application is extremely different from getting a visa to enter whether for work, marriage or what have you. Refugee status is way different which requires a recommendation form the UN as well as an actual vetting process that takes over a year of investigation where a visa only requires that you fill out a form and maybe a couple simple hoops to jump through.

And why doesn't hat address exist, could have been blown up or crumbled in an earthquake... not al countries keep addresses and records of such like we do. I find it unfortunate that so many are jumping to conclusion and assumptions based on their perception that all other countries do things the way we do here.

Does not compute.

it is amazing, both those facts are being ignored.

stood out while reading the comments.

Everybody jumping on the "this is significant because everywhere is the same as here so..." bandwagon could do well for themselves and each other by taking a deep breath to give their brains a little oxygen.

I have no doubt that many DUers at the time would've been fully on board with FDR's Japanese camps.

scarce info and groupthink.

Expecting the visa process to pick up a fake address while we're being asked to accept tens of thousands of refugees is the same as throwing us citizens into camps. Hyperbole is not helpful.

tonight.

No more visas. No more exchange students. No one enters this country from foreign soil without intense background checks and evaluations. 10-day waiting period, at least.


Sorta satirical.

idea over there.

Just ask someone in Dubai (much less Pakistan) what their street address is... you will probably get ummmm, ummmm

I live in building X.

Even English spellings of names are very fluid. That makes it extremely hard to do background checks on people.

or well, far less affluent areas in large cities. It also makes it ahem a sport to respond an ambulance to a medical emergency. Did they mean the first, second or third La Lolita store?

I bet the DHS is more alert and careful after this. False records are nothing new. Millions lose their identity to cyber thieves each year. People have fake drivers license, the amount of ammo and weapons makes me thing someone else had to be involved.

I can go to Wallmart and buy that ammo tonight. I am not jocking, sadly I am being very factual.

We are talking 4,100 .223 ammo
2000 for the 9mm
and a smattering of other ammo

I would not do it, but this is a weekend of shooting fun for some of my back country neighbors, and it would not raise an eyebrow if one or two went to the sporting goods store and bought it. Some of my urban neighbors would also fire this much at the range in a weekend.

The two guns (the AR 15s) were bought by people who could legally buy them three years ago. At least one has already been interviewed by the ATF and let go since there was no problem. The weapons were legally transferred (why we also need a private background check), but there was no straw purchase here.

And the weapons collection... is not that unusual either.

Perhaps since I know gun owners... this really does not surprise me much.

Now here is the problem with this statement... well there are many problems with that statement... and they go to the heart of the number of things that need to be done where me or you, or joe, or anybody else going to the sporting goods store and plopping the credit card and buying brick after brick of ammo does not raise any eyebrows.

The private transfer loophole would not have stopped this by the way. A limit on how much ammo you can buy, which may have a good chance of making through the initiative process right now, would only slow it down.

Oh and how much this would run? Well lets see... if they went for the cheap ammo, 500 rounds can be had for $140 bucks, and 1000 rounds of 9 mm for $224... so it would not even necessarily break the bank.

Really the amount of ammo is not that impressive. We have had home fires where the fire department stands back because literally they are dealing with not a few thousand rounds, but tens of thousands of rounds. And that does not raise an eye either.

Here, one example.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/general-news/20130621/exploding-ammo-on-zayante-drive-keeps-firefighters-from-blaze

So the problem is that none of this raises an eyebrow.

However I did read they had armor piercing ammo so that is an additional worry if true. You said they did not have on bullet proof vets but something else?

Here, the actual law.

Errors are as common as getting things right.

When bringing my fiance over, they lost one of my Passport pictures. Long-story short, this ended-up delaying the process by almost a month.

Immigration is handled by DHS and the State Dept. and since immigration is so hated by the Republicans, they are woefully underfunded.

The process is messed-up. I am willing to place odds, despite the fact we had a son together, and because of DHS mess-ups, I strongly suspect the young terrorist lady in question still arrived in the US way sooner than my now wife.

Grrrrrrrrr.

I forget who said it on the M$M.

But, yeah, this is a known problem with third-country visas -- the consular staff in Saudi Arabia have lots of contacts and experience relevant to Saudi Arabia, but that doesn't particularly help you dig up info on someone from Pakistan. And since the background check focuses mostly on the past 7 years or so, something from 25 years ago might fall through the cracks (though a non-existent town doing so surprises me).

As a side note, the same GOP-blocked diplomatic security funding request that might have made Benghazi turn out differently also included some technology modernization funds that would have made information sharing between Riyadh and Lahore a little easier.

Wow..

I read that or what it DHS? She was already vetted. Guess not.

Because, as others have said, some countries are not exactly Google-mapped to the nth degree. Addresses change, buildings burn down, people misremember.

If pushed, I could not give you my last 10 addresses. I've moved a lot. I can even remember the last one before this. If I could find that info (and I probably could, with some searching), I might get the apartment number wrong or something.

But even if it was a false address and not a mistake, there are many reasons why the agency might not follow up. One, budgets and personnel have been cut to the bone (except for the military and related spying agencies- those of course get plenty of money). You don't get to criticize federal employees for not doing their jobs while at the same time you are not giving them the tools to do them adequately.
I'm sure wing-nuts will be all over this, but they are the ones responsible for any failures. They will demonize whatever agency this was, while at the same time talk about "drowning government in a bathtub." This is what happens when you try to do that. THIS.

President Obama will address the Nation tomorrow night (Sunday( at 8:00) to update citizens on the status of Americas safety. Some big announcement expected and update on last weeks terrorist attack.

So, yes, they will start checking them out now, I think. Verify as much as possible.

She was a Saudi and he took a trip to KSA to meet her.

Uh, our government needs to wake up and smell to coffee about who our real enemies are.

I had recently (before the SB masacre) posted a thread asking why Saudi Arabia was our "ally'".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027373429

We need to distance ourselves from that country ASAP.

Facts will not change their minds.

Good lord..

How can anyone become a permanent resident, with a fake home address??

It is mind boggling.