Big Pork Lips.

(I keed, I keed!)

That is my own personal issue with it... I don't eat much meat but I do eat fish and dairy.

Interesting, but correlational only at this point....

Last edited Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:21 PM - Edit history (1)

and I don't have trouble getting protein

That is a myth

While your mileage may vary, that was quite rude, upaloopa.

skinless chicken breast for protein content.

But I imagine you are better educated than some other people, who may be simply looking at "don't eat anything with a face".

What can you share about about getting healthy levels and types of protein? I know I need to cut down on meat. I'm not prepared to go vegetarian, and certainly not vegan, but I know I need to do better for myself than my All-American Road Warrior Drive Thru diet.

Many vegetable sources of protein are deficient in one or more components. Your body can certain assemble incomplete proteins into complete ones if it has all the necessary building blocks (essential amino acids), but this takes a conscience effort on what foods need to be eaten together. Some vegetable sources like soy and turnip greens contain complete proteins with all the essential amino acids that humans need.

People who suffer from protein deficiencies are almost invariably: a) suffering some serious ailment that impacts their absorption of nutrients b) just not getting enough calories period or c) living in one of the parts of Africa where cassava root is a dietary staple.

Eat enough food. Don't go nuts on cassava roots. See a doctor if you have a wasting illness.

And no, if you are trying to eat no meat, no dairy, no fish/eggs and are strictly 100% vegan--while keeping calories in control, it is not easy. One can be protein deficient in terms of both maintaining and building adequate muscle to maintain ones metabolism into mid and older age--without being in a catabolic state--without being "wasted"...

That much beef only has about 53g of protein.

I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but that seems like a silly excuse to me.

Cup of black beans:

http://www.calorieking.com/foods/calories-in-fresh-or-dried-legumes-beans-black-boiled_f-ZmlkPTEzMDYwNg.html

227 calories

15.2 grams of protein

As for the beef I know you're definitely wrong because you were using 85% lean beef. If you use 200 grams of 95% lean beef:

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/ground-beef-(95%25-lean---5%25-fat)?portionid=63122&portionamount=200.000

274 calories

42.8 grams of protein.

Of course NOTHING beats skinless chicken breast:

https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-skinless?portionid=4751539&portionamount=200.000

220 calories

46.2 grams of protein

protein per gram and especially protein per calorie.

It really is easy to get enough protein. I know because I've never had any difficulty doing so.

I can assure you that protein is not at all an issue in a meatless diet. I've never had the slightest problem, nor has anyone else I know who follows a veg diet.

For those who eat dairy, it is less an issue, but still a challenge.

I also worked out about the same then as now. I have always worked out at least since the age of 16 and I'm just about 50.

I wrestled in HS, played baseball and soccer, and have always been physically active and used strenghth training.

I am about 80% vegan at this point and look great and feel fantastic.

That's my personal issue with it...it is better.

protein on totally meatless, fishless, dairy-free diets. Not impossible and I spoke for myself, as I've had decades of trying, but being very physically active without the previous in the diet, 100 g protein is hard for me to achieve.

i just threw 80% out because i eat breads that contain egg and sometime milk products (like pancakes and biscuits) plus occasional "when in rome" oysters and cheese pizza. so i said 80%.

i do not use large amounts of dairy and eggs but have not yet eliminated all animal food products.

there are great vegan protein powders now that can provide 20-30 g a serving. no meat athelete is a good book to learn how to consume a diet to maintain certain physical goaks. there is also vegan bodybuilding .com which has hundreds of nutty physical specimins that are vegan. men and women young and old.

i just get pissed when people i know ask the stupid question in a whiny usually obnoxious voice "but where do you get your protein?". last time i said where do you think bulls get theirs and flexed.

how about some info from the National Institutes of Health?

and yes, I agree with and eat all the sources above. However, very active people need more protein than the average (non-meat or dairy-eating) American ingests, if they are to maintain (and even build) adequate muscle mass.

YOU do not get to call me a liar when I speak to my own experiences! Very very rude, kentauros.

They pointed out what happens with most people, as opposed to your special case. Your broad-brush "it isn't easy to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet--especially if you are physically active" needed correcting.

Please point it out to me.

As for building muscle mass, well, don't most just use powdered protein anyway? Plenty of that kind of supplemental protein is also plant-based. That seems to work for many of them doing the same as you...

any study where I could look at the methodology in any studies alluded to. Who funded this study or set of studies and who conducted them?

I think this is one of those unsubstantiated claims... they just say that "vegetarians are depressed and they don't know
why."

Well, perhaps people who don't eat meat are getting depressed because they realize that most folks will still be eating meat and that the production is helping to destroy the bioshpere; maybe they are depressed because of a number of things even if nobody delves deeper into the why of the question.

I am suspicious of this alleged study or studies and claims that they are making.

depressive issues then those in Western societies, but conveniently there is no data on this from this supposed study which doesn't discuss the methodologies, number of people, if it was a double blind study etc.

Actually for that matter India is not very vegetarian; that's only really a thing high-caste northerners do.

Last edited Sat Dec 5, 2015, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

so 31% would be considered vegan. India has a population of 1.25 billion people. So depending whether eating eggs is considered vegetarian or not, anywhere from 387 million to a 500 million are vegetarian in India.

What is your source that India is more depressed than the U.S. In this chart the depression rates in the U.S. and India are about the same:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/07/a-stunning-map-of-depression-rates-around-the-world

In a WHO survey, "Nearly 15 percent of those living in the 10 rich nations reported having at least one depressive episode in their lifetime. For poorer countries, the prevalence of a depressive episode was only 11 percent. The two most depressed countries are France, with a 21 percent prevalence, and the U.S., with a 19 percent prevalence."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27/depressed-countries_n_910345.html

However, let's take your data as accurate, that by itself does not say vegetarianism is a factor in depression. Since the OP itself does not list the parameters or methodology of the study, how do other variables such as socio-economic factors contribute. Would people in war zones or living in poverty contribute more to depression than say those in a high pressured job. My point being of course that their are so many variables that can contribute to depression, unless very careful parameters were setup, I would question the results of the study, and if it was a retrospective study, the parameters could involve even more unknowns

Dairy is too important a part of everybody's food for that.

eggs

I think there are two vegan restaurants in Mumbai total, and they're for expats.

except for the ones who are Catholic

That rules out every kind of cuisine here I can think of.

them eat meat or fish

Of course as an outsider I would not question your knowledge on the subject. However, I also am not going to assert myself and tell my associates that they are not vegetarians

Did they study this same group of people before and after they switched to a vegetarian diet? This article makes no mention of studying the same group of people before and after switching to a meatless diet. If not, then it may just show that people who are affected by depression, panic attacks, and anxiety are the ones who more often end up going the vegetarian route, not that the diet caused those conditions.

If I couldn't look forward to bacon

Great minds and all...

(not the last) and I thought I'd miss it. But, remarkably I don't. And I haven't substituted with any vegan options.

We were on a camping trip and I made my great breakfast, New Mown Hay, and said, this is my last bacon. And it was.

What I miss is fried chicken. I only ate it once a year… cook it myself for our annual fried chicken and waffle party. Still cook it but don't eat it but, man-o-man, I want a bite.

Well, duh, if you know you'll never have bacon again of course you'll be less optimistic!

are simply more likely to feel the level of empathy toward animals that results in making lifestyle changes like vegan or vegetarian diets.

I was always a moody kid, a moody young man, and I tend toward moodiness even in my forties. I switched to a vegan lifestyle 26 years ago and I don't feel any more - or less - moody than I did at six or sixteen.

so that a possible connection could be studied.

Is it just going to seem longer?

and my mental health (and that of my vegetarian friends) is just fine, thank you.

I went veg at 17. One thing I don't have to be depressed about is eating other beings.

There have been times in the last 27 years that I fell off the "veg" wagon and eating meat or fish did not cure my depression or make me any happier.

When I see studies like this, I often wonder who paid for them.

Bacon is bad for you?

Vegetarians are more depressed?

High Fat is bad, no now it's good, now it's a little bad?

Caffeine is bad or good?

I can't think of a single study, DU post, or news article that has changed my eating habits.

I also consulted my lipid panel, where I decided that perhaps it might be a good idea to reduce my very high blood pressure, triglycerides and 'bad' cholesterol ...

I then consulted Dr Caldwell Esselstyne and Dr. Dean Ornish, who explained that eating 1) too many calories all the time, and 2) eating so much fat laden food ... Was leading me to an early death ...

Both of those doctors also consulted with Bill Clinton after his second bypass procedure ... After consulting with those doctors, Bill Clinton, who followed their advice, is now cured of his Coronary Artery Disease ...

After all that ... I've lost nearly 100# and dropped my bad blood Numbers by more than half ...

I still eat meat occasionally, but not nearly like I used to ...

ABC NEWS

And I'm sure some people are happier believing in fantasies than having to deal with the ugliness of the real world.

sanity have always been meat eaters. The vegans have generally been the sane ones, although I kind of doubted one girl that tried to get me to eat some yard grass once.

The least educated are all meat eaters.

The ones with the shittiest jobs still meat eaters.

It is really uncanny...

decide to not eat meat are more prone to mental illness, or that people who suffer from mental illness are more prone to not eat meat?

because they are not in denial about the state of the planet.

I'm not a vegetarian myself, but I'm not a big meat eater. I think that as a group, vegetarians tend to think more about where what they're eating comes from.

It will attract vegetarians like flies to honey. Now vegans will complain about the honey reference.

is key to combatting climate change.

Indeed, climate change and preserving the planet was sooooo not on the old DUs radar. I soooo miss the old DU that shut down climate science by mocking vegetarians. You all want to stick you fingers in you ears and pretend what you eat has no bearing on climate change but that is simply not true. The preponderance of scientific evidence is there. Meat production and meat consumption are important topics to discuss when addressing climate change.

Al Gore agrees.

maybe people just like meat and are bummed to not get it. mmmmmmm meat.

from birth to death.

The thought of eating it turns my stomach.

a lot of people say "vegetarian - i was a vegetarian for a year, but i really craved the meat" other people don't miss it at all. not sure if that is psychological or biological. i think people who make an easy transition to vegetarian, like you, have an anti-craving.

So this is quite plausible.

in this article or study.

I have been a vegetarian for almost 35 years. I have never had a problem with getting enough protein. The health problems I suffer from now have nothing to do with my diet, and actually my diet helps to assuage some of the issues.

Now, I do eat a balanced diet. I dated a woman in my twenties who also claimed to be a vegetarian. Her idea of it though was lettuce only salads, white pasta, M&M's, and Tab soda! Yeah, she was miserable and very unhealthy. She was a vegetarian though.

One must be a nutter to even try that.

They are saying that meatless people are prone to anxiety and depression. But it might be that people that are prone to anxiety and depression are more likely to go meatless.

In ancient Rome, a dormouse was a treat
Those Romans wrote that rodents tasted nice
Myself though, I'm repulsed by eating mice
In fact, to be exact, I don't eat meat

I believe there's better stuff to eat
In lieu of little mice, I'd request rice
A dish of vegetation would suffice
Avoiding eating things with fins or feet

And dormouse tastes disgusting, one would think
A creature with more eye than flank or thigh
But then again, we now have cows to thank
There's e-coli in all the beef we buy
So whatever stuff it was the Romans drank
I'm sure it tastes the same to you and I

-nearbeer

In nearly every change we make in our lives, going 100% in one direction or the other is usually the wrong route to take. There should nearly always be a middle ground in how we approach our individual lives. Absolutism is...ungood.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is -hockey- Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

works for me!

Anecdotal, I know.

One thing that I've learned is to never trust medical reporting in the popular media as the coverage is nearly always wildly inaccurate, leaves out critical information, or wildly overstates the conclusions of the original study. Like others here, I'd be interested in seeing a link to the actual study.

Lost a lot of extra weight and kept it off, was more social, went out and enjoyed life more.

Our bodies need a variety of foods. When you ban something from your body, it reacts negatively obviously. Perhaps not eating meats makes you hungry which makes you depressed. Makes perfect sense actually.

but without more information I have to wonder if these studies are making the mistake of thinking that correlation = causation.

Assuming that it's true that a meatless diet is associated with mental health problems, that doesn't mean that it's the lack of meat causing the problems.

It could be, for example, that vegetarians, and vegans in particular, face more social difficulties, such as when eating out with friends or going to a family dinner. That extra stress could be the cause of the mental health problems.

is depressing indeed.

from meat eating, climate change, and so on. They tend to be more politically liberal and aware of what is really going on in our system. No wonder they're not as optimistic about the future.