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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 09:12 PM Dec 2015

Ben Carson adds the $1 bill to his list of off-the-wall theories

By Steve Benen
Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson spoke at the Republican Jewish Coalition forum yesterday and raised a few eyebrows with his bizarre delivery, effectively reading a history of Israel for reasons no one could explain. He also kept pronouncing “Hamas” as “hummus,” making it seem as if Carson had very serious concerns about the influence of ground chickpeas in the Middle East.

But for my money, the really notable part about Carson’s strange appearance was his thoughts on, of all things, the $1 bill. ABC News reported:

Addressing the Republican Jewish Coalition today, Republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson told a story about how the Star of David came to be on the U.S. dollar bill.

Only one problem: There’s no Star of David on the dollar bill.

Apparently, Carson believes that if you look at the back of a dollar bill – on the right, just above the eagle – you’ll see stars in a shape resembling the Star of David. The presidential hopeful told his audience yesterday about a wealthy Jewish merchant, Haym Salomon, who is believed to have helped finance George Washington’s army during the Revolutionary War.

more

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/ben-carson-adds-the-1-bill-his-list-the-wall-theories
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Ben Carson adds the $1 bill to his list of off-the-wall theories (Original Post) n2doc Dec 2015 OP
Ok...I'll admit it... Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #1
Right, 13 five pointed stars, in the formation of a six-pointed star (nt) Recursion Dec 2015 #15
Where is this formation you speak of? brush Dec 2015 #19
here: Spider Jerusalem Dec 2015 #28
I guess one can say that's in the shape of a six-pointed star . . . brush Dec 2015 #29
His range of knowledge Old Codger Dec 2015 #30
Yes! Yes! brush Dec 2015 #34
and given he is apparently blind, I am glad he is a retired surgeon...n/t dixiegrrrrl Dec 2015 #49
I think the 5 point Mendocino Dec 2015 #44
Good points. brush Dec 2015 #45
The stars in the original seal (of 1782) were six-pointed, not five Spider Jerusalem Dec 2015 #55
The small stars Mendocino Dec 2015 #57
Looks more like a snowflake to me nt redwitch Dec 2015 #59
Here's yet another addition to the list LiberalElite Dec 2015 #2
Here's the front and back and I can almost see it uppityperson Dec 2015 #3
What do you mean "almost"? Just above the eagle, the stars are in a star of David shape Recursion Dec 2015 #11
You don't often see 'silver certificates' any longer nt elias49 Dec 2015 #27
I found a stack of them when I was cleaning out my mother's house after she passed away MiniMe Dec 2015 #47
Really. Cool collectable. elias49 Dec 2015 #48
I own two silver certificates… MrScorpio Dec 2015 #52
I think I've got it NightWatcher Dec 2015 #4
Slater today hifiguy Dec 2015 #18
These guys make more sense than Carson Yorktown Dec 2015 #26
WTF???? Photographer Dec 2015 #5
Seriously? Look at the Great Seal on the right side of the back. Recursion Dec 2015 #14
It's in the shape of a hexagram... Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #22
the 18th century is the century from 1701-1800 VMA131Marine Dec 2015 #31
I should have been more specific Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #39
It's used in Freemasonry today; I assume it was in the 1700s also Recursion Dec 2015 #36
I think you're probably correct on the Freemasonry iconography Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #38
Silly, that is obviously a Parcheesi board..... dixiegrrrrl Dec 2015 #53
The Hamas/Hummus angrychair Dec 2015 #6
Here's what the first $1 bills looked like in 1862 struggle4progress Dec 2015 #7
Carson's partial to the current one with the grain pyramid on the back pinboy3niner Dec 2015 #10
And the flying eye no doubt represents the UFOs that helped the Egyptians struggle4progress Dec 2015 #21
OK, but the Great Seal on the back, which is what has the star of David, was adopted in 1782 Recursion Dec 2015 #13
Except that Carson's theory falls apart... Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #25
The 18th century started on 1 Jan 1701. VMA131Marine Dec 2015 #32
Funky lindysalsagal Dec 2015 #42
Chase's main concern was that the bill have his picture on it struggle4progress Dec 2015 #43
I think that in the horse race that is the GOP primary rurallib Dec 2015 #8
That's pretty clearly a star of David above the eagle, right? Recursion Dec 2015 #9
that is just the way it looks when you arrange 13 little stars in a circle. pansypoo53219 Dec 2015 #16
Right, but the article is saying no Star of David appears on the bill Recursion Dec 2015 #17
Yes, you are right Generic Other Dec 2015 #20
It is a six pointed star VMA131Marine Dec 2015 #35
Right. You can visit your local Masonic hall and see one Recursion Dec 2015 #37
I don't give a rat's ass what Carson Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #12
LOL, I believe Carson read Steve Berry's novel, Patriot Threat Brother Buzz Dec 2015 #23
Not to meantion the fact that Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #24
So that means that the pyramids on the dollar bill are grain silos? Initech Dec 2015 #33
no, it's a Chinese checkerboard! Enrique Dec 2015 #40
Chinese checkers? Hah! Do kids even play that anymore? brush Dec 2015 #46
he is guano crazy madokie Dec 2015 #41
Since Carson talks so much about slavery, I'm surprised he doesn't carry these... madinmaryland Dec 2015 #50
If you lie on your back in a park in summer, saltpoint Dec 2015 #51
Carson is staring in the next National Treasure!!! JoePhilly Dec 2015 #54
I was raised Roman Catholic, SheilaT Dec 2015 #56
Well Ben Mendocino Dec 2015 #58

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
1. Ok...I'll admit it...
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 09:17 PM
Dec 2015

I pulled out a buck just to make sure I wasn't as insane as Carson. Yep, just regular old five pointed stars, not the Star of David

brush

(53,784 posts)
19. Where is this formation you speak of?
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:57 PM
Dec 2015

I'm looking at a one dollar bill right now and I see the five-pointed stars in a row, not in the shape of a six-pointed star.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
28. here:
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:33 PM
Dec 2015


The 13 stars above the eagle are arranged in the shape of a six-pointed star. Have been since the first die for the Great Seal of the US was cut in 1782. The arrangement, according to Wikipedia at least, was probably the work of the engraver, since it wasn't specified in the blazon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States#First_die

brush

(53,784 posts)
29. I guess one can say that's in the shape of a six-pointed star . . .
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:45 PM
Dec 2015

but if was to represent the Star of David why wouldn't the engraver have just drawn the six-pointed star?

And present-day Israel didn't come into existence until 1947, long after that engraving was done.

I think Carson just committed another screw-up that reveals his range of knowledge is pretty narrow.



Mendocino

(7,495 posts)
44. I think the 5 point
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:13 PM
Dec 2015

stars were simply put in that pattern for symmetry. Thirteen units do not lend themselves to good graphics. Plus there is the symbolic, many small stars (states) come together to form one large (a nation).

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
2. Here's yet another addition to the list
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 09:22 PM
Dec 2015

of things Carson gets wrong. This explanation of the stars over the eagle on the back of the dollar bill is from the website of the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia:

" The 13 stars above the eagle represent a new constellation taking its place in the universe, in the same way that a new nation takes its place among the other sovereign nations. "

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. What do you mean "almost"? Just above the eagle, the stars are in a star of David shape
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:42 PM
Dec 2015


It's part of the great seal.

MiniMe

(21,716 posts)
47. I found a stack of them when I was cleaning out my mother's house after she passed away
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 06:30 PM
Dec 2015

Of course, they really aren't worth anything more than a dollar now. But it is neat to have them

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
48. Really. Cool collectable.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 06:36 PM
Dec 2015

Like finding a Liberty half dollar.
Used to collect coins etc as a kid.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
18. Slater today
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:56 PM
Dec 2015


I was a stoner at that level back then, but I was more into obscure theories about prog rock and Krautrock.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. Seriously? Look at the Great Seal on the right side of the back.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:45 PM
Dec 2015

The 13 stars are in a Star of David formation.

Here's the first die of the original seal:



If anything it's even more clear in that.

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
22. It's in the shape of a hexagram...
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:12 PM
Dec 2015

You'd be hard pressed to suggest that it is meant to be a "Star of David" and an emblem of Israel at the time the seal was created, because the "Star of David" wasn't accepted widespread as a symbol for Judiasm until the 18C

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
36. It's used in Freemasonry today; I assume it was in the 1700s also
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:35 AM
Dec 2015

It was definitely a known symbol of Solomon's temple, if not Judaism per se. (Ironically, the Pyramid that everybody associates with Freemasonry on the left side isn't particularly Masonic...)

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
38. I think you're probably correct on the Freemasonry iconography
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 08:40 AM
Dec 2015

Be interesting to know if the designer of the was a Freemason

struggle4progress

(118,290 posts)
21. And the flying eye no doubt represents the UFOs that helped the Egyptians
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:06 PM
Dec 2015

build the pyramids and fill them with grain

But I find myself wondering why Salmon Chase's lovely portrait was later removed from the bill design

George Washington graced the bill in 1880, but by 1886 he'd been replaced by wife Martha; and in 1896 George and Martha are on the back of the bill

The front of the 1928 version looks like today's bill but the back is different: no grain storage pyramid, no flying eye ...



Recursion

(56,582 posts)
13. OK, but the Great Seal on the back, which is what has the star of David, was adopted in 1782
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:43 PM
Dec 2015

And, yes, the 13 stars are deliberately in a star of David formation.

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
25. Except that Carson's theory falls apart...
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:18 PM
Dec 2015

When you understand that the "Star of David" wasn't accepted as a symbol of the Jews until the 18c, and he is suggesting that the symbology was placed their by the founders, which has been debunked numerous times

lindysalsagal

(20,692 posts)
42. Funky
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 09:14 AM
Dec 2015

Treasure of New York. Washington. 18 thingys at the top and bottom. 6 thingys in the middle. Looks like some guy dropped anything on had that had anything at all to do with the government, and everyone else said, "well, ok."

rurallib

(62,418 posts)
8. I think that in the horse race that is the GOP primary
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:39 PM
Dec 2015

the horse named Carson slipped off the track to sniff some loco weed and take a shit.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. Right, but the article is saying no Star of David appears on the bill
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:47 PM
Dec 2015

But there's one very clearly there.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
20. Yes, you are right
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:03 PM
Dec 2015

The founding fathers were into Masonic symbols. Kinda of like the Revolutionary Brotherhood, right? They had the supersecret handshake and decoder ring. Makes sense they would include all sorts of symbols. I looked that one up. Was not technically the star of David until the 17th century and not adopted by us until much later. It was a talisman or charm not a direct reference tying the wearer to Judaism.

VMA131Marine

(4,139 posts)
35. It is a six pointed star
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:13 AM
Dec 2015

but that doesn't mean its a Star of David any more than this is a symbol of Devil worship

[url=https://flic.kr/p/ATPpU4][img][/img][/url]

There is this though from Wikipedia:

"The interlacing triangles or deltas symbolize the union of the two principles or forces, the active and passive, male and female, pervading the universe ... The two triangles, one white and the other black, interlacing, typify the mingling of apparent opposites in nature, darkness and light, error and truth, ignorance and wisdom, evil and good, throughout human life." – Albert G. Mackey: Encyclopedia of Freemasonry

The hexagram, one of the world's most ancient symbols, is featured within and on the outside of many Masonic temples as a decoration. It may have been found within the structures of King Solomon's temple, from which Freemasons are inspired in their philosophies and studies. Like many other symbols in Freemasonry, the deciphering of the hexagram is non-dogmatic and left to the interpretation of the individual.


So the star on the dollar is more likely to have its origins in Freemasonry .....

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
37. Right. You can visit your local Masonic hall and see one
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:37 AM
Dec 2015

He's absolutely wrong about its significance;I was just surprised people didn't seem to see the figure itself.

Snobblevitch

(1,958 posts)
12. I don't give a rat's ass what Carson
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 10:42 PM
Dec 2015

believes about the $1 bill. I do think we should stop printing $1, $2, and $5 bills and mint coins in those denominations.

Brother Buzz

(36,440 posts)
23. LOL, I believe Carson read Steve Berry's novel, Patriot Threat
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:12 PM
Dec 2015

In the novel (hello Carson, it's a novel, not history) there are actually two Stars of David; one is the cluster of stars above the eagle on the back



and the other needs to drawn over the unfinished pyramid. Mason? Hmm,

Docreed2003

(16,862 posts)
24. Not to meantion the fact that
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:14 PM
Dec 2015

Haym Salomon, although a real and influential person, had no impact on the design of the national seal whatsoever.

brush

(53,784 posts)
46. Chinese checkers? Hah! Do kids even play that anymore?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:45 PM
Dec 2015

Might be Carson's next sharing of his "wisdom".

madokie

(51,076 posts)
41. he is guano crazy
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 08:55 AM
Dec 2015

The last person who we should want in the whitehouse as President. He's even nuttier than tRump if thats possible that is

saltpoint

(50,986 posts)
51. If you lie on your back in a park in summer,
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 07:06 PM
Dec 2015

you can perceive animal shapes in passing clouds.

I saw a crocodile once.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
56. I was raised Roman Catholic,
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 07:47 PM
Dec 2015

and the Star of David is a common feature in RC Churches, especially in the stained glass. Maybe that just indicates that the Church more clearly understands its roots in Judaism, than those Johnny-come-lately Protestants.

Mendocino

(7,495 posts)
58. Well Ben
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 09:24 PM
Dec 2015

the swastika is and was a common symbol in several eastern religions, doesn't make those Nazi. Also does the fact that many sheriff stars are six sided doesn't make law enforcement Jewish.

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