and I own firearms, and I'll keep them.

or something.

And to set up public spaces like they are Fort Knox. Police carrying auto rifles, scans at every door way. Blame every single other thing, except the proliferation of these killing machines whose soul purpose is to KILL HUMANS and those who won't give them up in the name of freedom, of which they are helping to make us less free.

That type of thinking isn't the making of a free and open society. It's a prelude to a god damned police state.

I swear some people not being able to see beyond the tip of their nose, by even a quarter of an inch, is fucking maddening.

That's where you take something someone said, twist it into something they didn't say, then attack that argument as though that's what the person said.

GG did NOT say what you say he said. All he said was he would keep his. By the way, I'll keep mine too, but thanks for trying to make me free by taking my freedoms away.

Something about, "The chocolate allotment has been increased from 25 to 20 grams per month" comes to mind.

Period.

It has infringed the right to LIVE for 20 precious babies in Newtown, and countless others.

Wake up.

My firearms are in no way infringing upon your freedoms, the only thing they're infringing upon is the space my safes take up in our home.

is also creating a society that values a killing machine over human life.

Which in fact will lead us to a less safe, open society.

Deal.

Again, my firearms are in no way infringing upon anyone's rights, neither is my defense of owning them.

The vast majority of America is a perfectly safe place to live and enjoy the freedoms we have, yet you want to curtail or eliminate my right to enjoy the freedom of owning firearms?
Sorry, but that's a no go for me.

Helps mass murderers...

Deal with it.

Deal with it.

Do you think we will ever come to terms when one side points out guns are murder toys and the response is "deal with it" and "not mine?" As a Texan I know how stubborn people are. My people are the ones who had been there since the 1800s and were too stupid and hard nosed to realize the land was devastated. And they continued to devastate it. As water dries up and the land becomes unusable because all of its life has been used up, everyone still demands the freedom to farm the dead land. That's what this conversation is becoming. How much life has to be destroyed before we understand our own little pet narrative of life isn't good for the long-term health of our society?

outside my window. It's duck season here on Long Island.

A few years ago I heard shots that sounded alarmingly close. The Bay Constable took off like a shot toward a couple of yahoos just off shore. Two guys from Brooklyn who thought it would be fun to shoot some ducks. No license. No hunting knowledge. No brains.

They apparently failed to note the difference between yards and feet.

Their boat was confiscated, their shotguns were confiscated and they were fined an amount equal to the GDP of a small country.

Nobody suggested that the unlawful use of hunting equipment by a couple of nitwits should result in the prohibition of hunting by the thousands of people here who enjoy the sport.

BTW: I don't own a gun. I've never owned a gun, but I grew up with uncles who were hunters and target shooters. We all lived in the same house in Brooklyn and I slept in a room with a gun rack on the wall filled with rifles, shotguns and handguns. It was locked and none were loaded. I have a lot of respect for responsible gun owners and sportsmen. I'm thinking getting a duck license next year and taking classes prior to the opening of the season next fall. From the middle of the bay where hunters set up their blinds, you can clearly see the new Freedom Tower.

Are you accusing DUers of committing crimes?

This thread might be as entertaining as the last one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027395698

What I am saying, and quite clearly I might add, is that the defense of their precious "freedom" is partially responsible for the weekly carnage we see. And that if they continue to do so, we will be a less free society.

You think if we don't do something about this, that the only other response is to lock down society by making every single public safe with MORE GUNS held by POLICE Officers and getting scanned to enter a theater.

That is less freedom FOR EVERYONE.

I feel a hell of a lot safer knowing that criminals are aware that many law abiding citizens are armed. When I see people demonizing cops and citizens who defend themselves, I fear a less safe environment.

People demonize cops who kill innocent unarmed citizens, do you think that's OK? People demonize assholes who shoot up Planned Parenthood and their work place because of their religion, not ones that actually defend themselves. Unless you think it's perfectly OK for a guy in a movie theater to shoot someone because they are talking on their cell phones and claim self-defense. Those are the only people demonized here, as they should be.

Look up VonDerrit Myers and Antonio Martin. That's just a couple that come to mind because they were local. It happens here all the time, with cops and civilians.

And what site are you reading where law abiding gun owners aren't demonized on a daily basis? Certainly not DU.

A friend of a friend was arguing on facebook that cannons and grenades were OK to own. Lots of gun owners are totally irresponsible, every day someone shoots themselves or someone else accidentally. It's the unfettered gun ownership crowd that are demonized, not the responsible gun owner who has gun locks that are used and keep them unloaded in a secure safe. It's the "I'm OK so there should be no gun laws or restrictions that are making the rest of us less safe, and yes, those are rightly demonized. Which kind of gun owner are you? Do you support sensible restrictions and 100% background checks?

pay the 200.00 dollar tax stamp.

Don't give in to irrational fear. We're bombarded by stories urging us to fear, fear, FEAR...out of all rational proportion to our actual risk. Just stop.

And it is creating a society where we will all be less free.

You have a nice life, m'kay...

This isn't imaginary.

What it is, however, is rare. I refuse to live in hand-wringing fear of something that has a very low probability of happening to me.

I live in an urban environment. I don't fear for my life daily, don't really think about it. However, I do strongly support gun restrictions and 100% registration and background checks and lots of research being published to make everyone more safe. Do you?

I don't feel unsafe (although larger urban environments are where violent crime is concentrated).

There are a good few additional gun regulations I support (sometimes actively: I helped work on the successful campaign for universal background checks here in Oregon). For example, I'd like to see the law mandate proper secure storage for firearms. I have a nice safe, which not everyone can afford, but there are inexpensive security measures available to anyone who can afford the weapon and ammo to practice with it in the first place.

One area in which no new laws are needed but which is a problem because of lack of enforcement is straw purchases. Recent research has indicated that straw purchases are actually a bigger source of firearms to criminals than is theft. Knowingly buying a firearm to transfer to a prohibited person should be treated as the serious crime it is.

I wholeheartedly agree that research into gun violence mustn't be restricted. Mostly, it hasn't been (the restrictions in the news are only on CDC research...lots of other research takes place), but the CDC has resources that most researchers don't, and that ban needs to be lifted. I understand the concerns over the research process (and results) being politicized, but steps can be taken to prevent that. More info = better.

...I often get responses like "tell that to the people who had a child killed at Sandy Hook" or some other appeal-to-emotion. I get the sorrow and outrage...but those aren't what public policy should be based on. Public policy should be based on facts.

I don't advocate for the arming of more people, I advocate for the freedom of choice for citizens to decide what's best for themselves.

My firearms must be defective because they've never killed or even wounded another human being in all the years I've owned them, the only thing they've killed is animals we've hunted for food, predators trying to kill our livestock and a lot of paper plates.

has made a society that allows anyone to purchase guns where the sole function is to murder human beings. Assault Rifles to be exact.

You can live with that... all because...... well your freedom. Well what about all those who have to lose their life going about their lives innocently who have been shot down in the name of your FREEDOM. What are they just collateral damage?

You can't even get that right. New assault rifles have been banned from civilians since 1986.

Again, my firearms haven't ever harmed another human being in all the years I've owned them, why should I give up my right to own them because some jackwagons use them criminally or negligently?

an assault rifle has a specific meaning, an assault rifle is a select fire rifle, either full auto or 3 round burst,
the AR-15 is a semi auto rifle, one trigger pull per round downrange, it operates the same exact way as my decades old semi auto .22 rifle, one trigger pull per round downrange.

I don't need education on firearms from CBS news or you, I spent 40+year in the Army, I think I know a little bit about firearms.

Refers to Mfg 'Armalite Rifle', not Assault or Automatic as some assume

It's a common mistake by those that know little to nothing about firearms, it doesn't stand for Assault Rifle.

I know what they do.

They are semi auto rifles that are nothing but HUMAN killing machines, with multiple capacity rounds, that are not needed for hunting.

They have been used in many of these mass killings we see.

What more do I need to know that your precious FREEDOM means more than the life of innocents?

You very obviously got caught out on the AR vernacular and now you're trying to save face.

The AR platform makes for a great hunting rifle, I have an AR-10 chambered in .308 with a 5 round mag for hunting deer/elk, I can quickly convert it to fire the .223 round for hunting smaller game and protecting our livestock from the predators we have around our neck of the woods.

My firearms, and my right to own them, in no way impacts society.

Whatevs.

You know that your defense of this type of proliferation of guns is making us a less safe, free society.

all I did was educate you so you don't make that mistake again.

I'm fighting for the right of lawful citizens to choose what's best for themselves.
It's that whole freedom of choice thing.

what's right for themselves?
I'm asking, not accusing.

And working toward making a society less free in the name of freedom just might fit that category.

Your definition of stupid may be far different that others.
My feeling on this is that each lawful adult individual should have the right to decide what's best for themselves.

Gotta go for now, farm chores are calling.
Have a great and peaceful day.

probably thinks it more than stupid to allow people access to them. Their families too.

People leave their guns unsecured and almost every day a child is killed/injured because of this. People make crazy, stupid, decisions so trust isn't there. When over 20% of Americans think Obama is Muslim from Kenya, no, I don't trust those fuckers at all,

So, absolutely NOT. Laws are needed to protect the innocent from others' folly.

From the original manufacturers name. Glad to help you learn something.

Just because someone doesn't know the intricacies of guns, doesn't mean they aren't right when they say the level of gun ownership in this country is driving us to be the 2nd tier murder capital of the world, The middle east sets the std. Is that what you want? People driving around and shooting up everyone who isn't part of their belief system?

then one should know what the hell they're talking about, don'tcha think?

Registering guns has nothing to do with type, neither does 100% background checks or allowing CDC to do research on gun usage. What does the type of gun have to do with any of these? Mandating gun locks and guns locked up also has nothing to do with type, so yeah, I disagree.

Not really....the US is below both the avg and median for homicide in all countries worldwide.

To put out false I information that other uninformed people take as facts. When people talk legislation facts and words matter. When people like you accept incorrect information, that is why gun control measures always fail.

Yes, they are banned. But semi-automatics and the conversion kits aren't so they really aren't banned at all, as you surely know.
Quit defending the gun lobby, by saying you are a good gun owner. Very few are saying we should have no guns, most are saying we should have a hell of a lot less. Put limits on purchases of guns and ammo, register every one, make unregistered guns a major felony, 100% background checks, don't allow cop killing bullets or large magazines. None of these would hurt responsible gun owners and would reduce fatalities.

Do you support common sense and safety?

You get caught with a converted semi to auto rifle will earn you a very hefty fine and possible 10 years in Club Fed.

Cop killing bullets? All bullets are capable of killing, if you're talking about armor piercing ammo, that's been banned for civilian use for decades now.
Large cap mags? How would a ban on those save lives?
The VT killer, Cho, used standard 10 round mags, yet managed to murder 32 people.

Registration is a no go for me, IMO, the govt, has no business or right to know what legal firearms I own.

UBC's I'm all for, all sales should go through an FFL background check.

Sorry, typing on my phone, kinda tedious.

Don'tcha just love all the untrue facts posters in this thread think they know as truth?

And re: conversion kits, none of them seem familiar with the term 'constructive possession', or how it applies.

That dupe the uninformed are strong in some. Just like you can purchase any firearm at a gun show or Internet without a background check, one of the big lies.

I believe as I read it GG stated his guns have never shot, much less murdered a human being.
The assault rifle argument has been hashed and rehashed. Most people of differing opinion cannot concur what exactly is an assault rifle.
If semi-automatic operated rifles as it seems to be the generic defining factor then a large percentage of hunters get lumped into your vision of a murderous society.
Millions own and use guns in a legal and responsible way, a few don't and provide anti-gunners their broad brush to paint with.

Three point selector switch which can allow full automatic firing.

It's really simple and it is 100% the definition.

Semi=automatic AR-15 rifles are NOT assault rifles. They never have been assault rifles.

of gun ownership in the country. New England on the whole is pretty low with the exception of Maine and Vermont, and I would suppose most of those are hunters and not paranoid gun freaks. Our rate of gun ownership is around 12.6% compared to around 50% or more for the red states. I'm just glad I live here where I have never seen anybody carry a gun and don't know anyone who owns one. It's such a foreign culture to me.

Unless you are one of the few responsible gun owners who keeps his ammo locked up along with his guns in a secure safe, and you keep your guns locked, are creating the conditions for a child to get it and hurt/kill themselves or others. See, it's not just about you personally, it's about the safety of all. Guns rarely protect people, are WAY more likely to be used against you. How much more likely we don't precisely know because gun nuts fear truth. Also, what do you think about registration, 100% background checks and research? These aren't takings, but information and safety. Unless, of course, you don't care and support terrorists being able to buy guns?

I don't own a gun and never will most likely but my neighbors do and I still manage to freely live my life. So silly.

this country? REALLY? And after yet another deadly shooting?

You might want to rethink what you just did here...just sayin'...

That is NOT "some limits" to gun ownership.

I own no guns. I haven't held a gun in decades (ever since I left the Army).

Posts like this make me want to buy many guns.

However, now I am even more concerned about you, after considering the last sentence in your post...do you feel this way a lot of the time? How do you handle these feelings of wanting to "buy many guns"?

Is there something about that poster that makes you think he would use guns in a criminal way?
I've had many disagreements with him, but I have no reason to be concerned if he decides to legally acquire firearms.

Seems normal.

Bet you think terrorists should be able to buy guns too, after all they are people as well and should be trusted?

Bet you wouldn't feel this way is someone you loved had been shot/killed by guns?

I supported the ban on gun purchases by people on the no-fly list.

I support reasonable gun laws.

Talk of gun confiscation, however, results in nothing being passed because too many people worry about the slippery slope, much like what happens with anti-abortion laws.

I support the ENTIRE constitution.

You obviously do not.

that they feel their right to have as many of and any kind they want help to facilitate a society of mass murder.

And when we can't address the real problem, the access to these implements, because of people well, like you....

Society will become more closed off and less safe and more like a police state to keep people safe from the crazies.

So, you choose which "freedom" you would prefer.

These people HAVE the right to have as many and any kind of firearm they want, regardless of your FEELINGS on the subject. They HAVE that LEGAL RIGHT.

It's right there in the constitution.

Don't like it? Get the requisite 2/3 votes in BOTH the House AND the Senate, then get 3/4 of the state legislatures to agree with you, but keep in mind, 13 states have the power to shut you down. Population does not come into consideration, it could be the 13 states with the lowest population and you are STILL shut down.

Nor is how many you can have.

So as long as you can have just 1 book of someone elses choosing, you know, someone who sees themselves as reasonable...


The first amendment is safe.

No. Just no.

No warrant. No due process. No ability to confront your accuser.

What other parts of the Bill of Rights would you deny to people on this arbitrary list?

The same court that gave us Citizens United re-interpreted the Constitution to mean an individual right. They completely turned the amendment on it's head. So, no, you are wrong. I totally support the Constitution, not the current deranged re-definition.

Constitutionally, the SCOTUS interprets the constitution, so again, you do not like the constitution. I may not agree with the SCOTUS on the interpretation, but once they make an interpretation, that is settled constitutional law.

And, they did not change the interpretation because no SCOTUS ruling was overturned by Heller.

So you totally support Citizens United? Sorry, this SCOTUS has destroyed the constitution when they selected Bush, they have no credibility with me. They are wrong, even it's law. Citizens United is the most anti-democratic law around and is a total travesty. The ruling on guns wasn't much better and is also totally wrong. Cops kill innocent people all the time and it's declared legal but it isn't.

I 100% support the "intent" of the original document, along with the Bill of Rights, not the twisted version being used these days.

IT is settled law now, so I accept it.

And I disagree with altering the constitution to change CU. I do not want to amend the first amendment in any way at all. CU is the price I pay for my freedom of speech, religion, and assembly.

CU is about businesses, those are 100% NOT people. They don't go to jail when they kill folks so they have no personal responsibility. It is fundamentally wrong and not working to change it is accepting that businesses will continue to grow more powerful, treat our laws and people worse and repugs will always win.

in ANY way.

WTF?
No, no demonizing happening on DU.