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http://www.sott.net/article/307442-Federal-judge-rules-Muslim-free-zone-at-Florida-gun-store-fails-to-harm-MuslimsFederal judge rules Muslim-free zone at Florida gun store fails to harm Muslims
A federal judge has dismissed a complaint filed by a Muslim advocacy organization claiming that an Inverness gun shop violated the Civil Rights Act by declaring itself a "Muslim-free zone".
The suit had demanded an injunction against Florida Gun Supply to prohibit it from discriminating against Muslims and others on the basis of religion. The Florida chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) filed the suit against Florida Gun Supply in July after the store's owner Andy Hallinan enacted a Muslim-free zone
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Please let me out now.
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)All the while said same Oligarchs, Corporations and Banks are robbing the 99% blind.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)Look no further than this when the PTB's stance on any issue: If it costs the 1 percent any money, they'll either openly oppose it, or they'll attempt to bury it by distracting the 99 percent by keeping them barking up the wrong tree.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)You actually have to have discrimination to bring a discrimination suit. Just putting a sign in the window itself isn't discrimination, if they never actually deny service based on a protected characteristic.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Doesn't the first one imply the second?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Or a sign that says, "Shoplifters will be skinned alive."
As long as you don't actually do any of those things, you're fine.
The same applies here. I bet the owner knows this, and doesn't have the stones to actually deny service, because he knows it would be a slam-dunk case.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)"Muslim-free zone" can be taken as a threat, depending upon who posts it. Do you disagree?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)And unless Pot Pot has opened a gun store, I think we're safe.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Or belonged to a group that engaged in hate crimes against the same? Are there any circumstances under which "Muslim free zone" posting could an imputed threat? Isn't this something that should be verified before one concludes that a denial of service violation is necessary?
I guess this comes down to burden-shifting. Normally, the First Amendment protects speech, but not Hate Speech. Who has the burden of showing potential harm in this sort of case?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)In any event, standing is required for a case.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/standing
Most standing issues arise over the enforcement of an allegedly unconstitutional statute, ordinance, or policy. One may challenge a law or policy on constitutional grounds if he can show that enforcement of the law or implementation of the policy infringes on an individual constitutional right, such as Freedom of Speech. For example, in tinker v. des moines independent community school district, 393 U.S. 503, 89 S. Ct. 733, 21 L. Ed. 2d 731 (1969), high school officials in Des Moines, Iowa, had suspended students for wearing black armbands to school to protest U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. There was no question that the parents of the students had standing to challenge the restrictions on the wearing of armbands. Mere ideological opposition to a particular government policy, such as the Vietnam War, however, is not sufficient grounds to challenge that policy in court.
And no, 'hate speech' is not prohibited in the US.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)for civil rights violation or even arrest for violation of criminal code. It all depends upon the circumstances, who makes the threat, how the threat is made, previous history, whether that person is armed, etc.
"Hate Speech", e.g., threatening behavior, even symbolic acts such as signs and edifices, has most certainly been prosecuted as a criminal violation under federal and most state law.
Hate Speech Debate - American Bar Association
www.americanbar.org/...in.../debate_hate.html
http://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/initiatives_awards/students_in_action/debate_hate.html
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)It has neither the reasonableness nor the specificity to pass the sniff test. And no amount of backstory piling on will make that happen.
There is no federal 'hate speech' statute. If you want to take a collection of things and call it 'hate speech' in your mind, feel free. But the rest of us who know what legislation has been proposed as 'hate speech' will disagree.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I don't know what the personal history of the shop owner is, but if he could be shown to have been involved personally or as part of a group in hate crimes or violence against Muslims, I would say, this might be an act of intimidation that could be actionable.
I believe that this is a case of display with the intent to intimidate a specific group where, like a noose or burning cross, the court has upheld bans of some symbolic acts amounting to "hate crime" as constitutional: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/states-move-to-add-nooses-to-list-of-outlawed-symbols
Opponents of such measures question the wisdom of targeting a particular symbol. They point out that the U.S. Supreme Court twice, first in 1989 and again in 1990, struck down state and federal laws singling out flag-burning. They worry that the list of disfavored symbols could grow and lead to a reduction in freedom of expression.
Supporters of noose-display laws rely heavily on the U.S. Supreme Courts 2002 decision in Virginia v. Black, which upheld the bulk of a state cross-burning law. The Virginia law provided: It shall be unlawful for any person or persons, with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons, to burn, or cause to be burned, a cross on the property of another, a highway or other public place.
The high court reasoned the cross-burnings done with the intent to intimidate others constitute true threats unprotected by the First Amendment. Justice Sandra Day OConnor wrote in her opinion that when a cross burning is directed at a particular person not affiliated with the Klan, the burning cross often serves as a message of intimidation, designed to inspire in the victim a fear of bodily harm. She continued: Intimidation in the constitutionally proscribable sense of the word is a type of true threat, where a speaker directs a threat to a person or group of persons with the intent of placing the victim in fear of bodily harm or death.
The Virginia v. Black opinion explains why many of the noose-display laws, rather than imposing a flat ban, contain language requiring that the display or drawing involve an intent to intimidate. The Supreme Court reasoned that not all cross-burnings necessarily were done with an intent to intimidate and, thus, may not qualify as true threats. The same logic applies to noose displays.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)"No shirt, no shoes, no service." (OR I'LL KEEL YOU WIT MAH GUNZ!)
No.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)If the KKK meets at a house of a member and burns a cross, it doesn't fall under that law. Nooses are the same in that hanging one on your own property isn't illegal. The intimidation relies on it appearing in public spots or on a victims property.
It's a fine line the laws draw.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)even want to go there.
Believe me, should those standard be applied equally the results would be negative for Muslims.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)That's the point, here.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Davis' refusal gave them standing as plaintiffs to sue.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)So long as he doesn't deny service, he hasn't broken the law.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)We do not have an overtly authoritarian and racist party in control of the government and we do not have national legislation (yet) that overtly discriminates against muslims.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)We do not have Muslims being removed from their jobs en masse as a matter of law, then removed from their homes and put into ghettoes, and having all their property and assets absconded by the government. Nor are the totality of mosques being destroyed by large government-sponsored troops. And certainly not the later things that happened: the death camps, etc.
But it is something we have to guard against, for sure. Should a demagogue such as Trump be elected (I put nothing past historical oddity), we could be in serious, serious jeopardy. The president's speech tonight should hopefully go a long way to restoring a touch of sanity ... though I fear it will fall on deaf ears for a portion of American society. Fortunately, they are still a minority, though a loud and significant one.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)that I am not despairing about the way in which many are being misled.
The darkly humorous side of me thinks all that's missing is Trump writing a book about his own struggles.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)Just have a Muslim man go in and attempt to purchase something. If the owner refuses, you now have a clear and simple case.
Every law or act challenged in court began with someone being denied or arrested. To legalize contraception in Connecticut, the Director in Conn. of Planned Parenthood opened a birth control clinic, served 10 customers and was then arrested, convicted, and fined for violating the Comstock Act. The case was appealed to the SCOTUS and won, ending bans on Contraceptive devices and recognizing the Right to Privacy in US law.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)They need to go in and be denied service because of their protected class, then they would have standing and a lawsuit would be a slam dunk.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)service.
I'm pretty sure that if a Muslim did show up and was refused service, the suit would succeed and the court would issue an injunction.
The River
(2,615 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)that allows open discrimination against millions of LGBT Americans in housing and employment and services already. You always have. You just don't care about us. Not a second thought. But straight religious people who had nothing happen to them at all, oh mercy it's the second coming of Hitler.
Double fucking standards demonstrate biases.
Part two: know your history Barney's Beanery edition...read the section called 'History of Discrimination'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney's_Beanery