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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Thu Dec 10, 2015, 06:56 PM Dec 2015

Cruz: Middle East was safer with Saddam Hussein

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ted-cruz-says-middle-east-was-safer-with-saddam-181023443.html

Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said that the Middle East was more stable before the United States helped topple dictators Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Moammar Gadhafi in Libya....

From Cruz’s perspective, it is the lesser of two evils to have stable, though cruel, tyrants in charge of Muslim-majority nations than vacuums for ISIS and other jihadists to exploit....

He said that Assad is a “bad man” and “a monster” but that if he were ousted, ISIS terrorists would take over even greater swaths of the region than they already control — a far worse alternative....

Instead of backing anti-Assad moderate rebels — whom he described as “mythical” and “a purple unicorn” — the U.S. should focus on doing everything possible not to degrade or weaken but to “utterly destroy ISIS.”


A purple unicorn? Is that from Dr. Seuss?
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Cruz: Middle East was safer with Saddam Hussein (Original Post) KamaAina Dec 2015 OP
Broken clock... FiveGoodMen Dec 2015 #1
+1 Go Vols Dec 2015 #6
+2 LittleBlue Dec 2015 #12
Not sure all those millions Saddam had killed agree yeoman6987 Dec 2015 #28
And let me guess...it's all Obama's fault? tanyev Dec 2015 #2
I thought the "everything's about Obama" posts had stopped at least a year ago. Guess not. merrily Dec 2015 #33
Take that up with W, Ted gratuitous Dec 2015 #3
Ted and Dubya aren't exactly buddies these days. EL34x4 Dec 2015 #10
He's absolutely right of course elias49 Dec 2015 #4
Obama does not get a pass for Libya. [n/t] Maedhros Dec 2015 #26
horse. barn. left already. struggle4progress Dec 2015 #5
Even a deaf, dumb and blind squirrel hifiguy Dec 2015 #7
No shit Sherlock (eom) Shankapotomus Dec 2015 #8
The Sailors of the USS Cole disagree. eom. Bad Thoughts Dec 2015 #9
Mahalo (thank you)! KamaAina Dec 2015 #11
What does the USS Cole have to do with Saddam? Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #13
But by who? KamaAina Dec 2015 #16
By a group with a wide geographic dispersion and headquartered in Afghanistan Bad Thoughts Dec 2015 #21
Saddam was a sort of bulwark against the westward expansion of Islamic fanaticism Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #22
I hate to say that I actually agree with Cruz on something Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2015 #14
What a weird week leftynyc Dec 2015 #18
IKR? Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2015 #23
Carnival Cruz finally has his broken clock moment meow2u3 Dec 2015 #15
Who said that recently and got it wrong - saying a broken clock Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2015 #20
Goodhair Perry, I believe. KamaAina Dec 2015 #24
"More stable". A conservative defending dictators. Wow! That's a surprise. Law-and-order, right? pampango Dec 2015 #17
Bushco's mantra, after the WMD bs was exposed, was that we were better off without Hussein than with merrily Dec 2015 #31
Yes. That was his fall-back excuse when the WMD BS was exposed. pampango Dec 2015 #35
Hmmm...doesn't sound like Mr Carpet Bomber - what a flip-flopper. nt Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2015 #19
Cruz would fit right in here... Blue_Tires Dec 2015 #25
Well yeah ibegurpard Dec 2015 #27
Has the entire Middle East de-stabilized since we invaded Iraq? merrily Dec 2015 #29
and which Party is responsible for THAT fiasco Teddy Boy? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #30
I agree with him on this. Blue_In_AK Dec 2015 #32
Notice he said "United States" not louis-t Dec 2015 #34
Middle East was commonly referred to as a "powder keg" moondust Dec 2015 #36
And who does he blame? Brigadier Pudding Dec 2015 #37
Nice fourth post! KamaAina Dec 2015 #40
I'm certain Hussein made the trains run on time. LanternWaste Dec 2015 #38
dear ted, onethatcares Dec 2015 #39
Juan Cole: No, Donald Trump, Mideast wouldn’t be more Stable under Saddam & other Dictators pampango Dec 2015 #41
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
28. Not sure all those millions Saddam had killed agree
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:29 PM
Dec 2015

But for the United States having Saddam alive is probably better

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
3. Take that up with W, Ted
Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:03 PM
Dec 2015

I know it was a real long time ago, and your brain doesn't work so good, but it was George W. Bush and his administration that was so hell-bent on removing Saddam Hussein. I believe Bush's exact words were "Fuck Saddam, we're taking him out."

As long as you're strolling down memory lane, Ted, you might also remember what the Bush administration and its media supporters called people who didn't think invading Iraq was such a good idea. "Traitors" was one of the nicer ones. I don't remember seeing you at any of the demonstrations back in the day, Ted. Where were you?

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
10. Ted and Dubya aren't exactly buddies these days.
Thu Dec 10, 2015, 09:34 PM
Dec 2015
'I just don't like that guy,' the former president tells donors.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/jeb-bush-george-bush-donors-ted-cruz-214933

Anyhow, can't say I disagree with Senator Cruz on this one.

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
4. He's absolutely right of course
Thu Dec 10, 2015, 07:20 PM
Dec 2015

but doesn't have the courage to lay blame where it belongs.
Don't Cruz and the Bushes have long-standing animosities?

Bad Thoughts

(2,525 posts)
21. By a group with a wide geographic dispersion and headquartered in Afghanistan
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 09:13 AM
Dec 2015

Was the Middle East safer with Hussien? There was still plenty of instability, still plenty of eruptions of violence, and still opportunities for Americans to suffer.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
22. Saddam was a sort of bulwark against the westward expansion of Islamic fanaticism
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 09:16 AM
Dec 2015

He was a secular leader and didn't have anything to do with the Cole.

He did, however, want to sell his oil for euros, rather than dollars.

Kind of like Gaddafi, who wanted to sell his oil for gold dinars, rather than dollars.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,422 posts)
14. I hate to say that I actually agree with Cruz on something
Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:43 PM
Dec 2015


Saddam (and his sons/regime) were a nasty lot and Ghaddafi was too but there were other things we could have done to help the Iraqi people short of what we DID do. Encouraging the oppressed peoples of the ME to rise up against the dictatorships we helped build up in the region (and elsewhere) is, in principle, noble, but the aftermath has certainly been messy/difficult to manage.
 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
18. What a weird week
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 08:45 AM
Dec 2015

Forced to agree with cruz on this and agree with dick about Trump's idea being absolutely un-American. I've never felt this dirty my whole life.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
17. "More stable". A conservative defending dictators. Wow! That's a surprise. Law-and-order, right?
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 08:24 AM
Dec 2015

That old liberal mantra that in the long run repressive governments create the conditions in which terrorism thrives is not 'realpolitik'? Right, Ted?

We need dictators to control the terrorism that repression of previous dictators caused? Using that 'logic' repressive dictators will be around forever saving us from 'terrorism'. ("It's me or the terrorists!) Sometimes it is hard to follow right wing logic.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
31. Bushco's mantra, after the WMD bs was exposed, was that we were better off without Hussein than with
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:34 PM
Dec 2015

him because evil and dictator. So, maybe it's all just a question of which (R) one sides with?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
35. Yes. That was his fall-back excuse when the WMD BS was exposed.
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 04:19 PM
Dec 2015

Most conservative politicians are quite comfortable dealing with and supporting dictators, as Reagan did with Hussein. Bush I did the same with Hussein up until he invaded Kuwait. Even the resulting Gulf War saw Bush deciding to leave Hussein in power though he could have been easily deposed.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
27. Well yeah
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 03:24 PM
Dec 2015

That's common knowledge. And one of the biggest reasons the Iraq War and the lies used to start still needs to be an issue thrown in the face of anyone pushing for a repeat.
Insert obligatory broken clock comment here...

louis-t

(23,296 posts)
34. Notice he said "United States" not
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 04:05 PM
Dec 2015

"GW bush and his fucking cronies". Leaving himself open to blame Obama for it.

moondust

(20,001 posts)
36. Middle East was commonly referred to as a "powder keg"
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 04:25 PM
Dec 2015

at least since 1952.

August 19, 1952

JERUSALEM (Aug. 18)

Premier David Ben Gurion today told the Israel Parliament that “the entire Middle East is now a keg of explosives and any spark may set afire all the region.” This, he emphasized, demands Israel’s uttermost preparedness.

http://www.jta.org/1952/08/19/archive/middle-east-is-now-a-powder-keg-says-ben-gurion-appeals-to-egypt

I guess Teddy's pals in the GOP, specifically the ones from Texas, plus a few unwise Dems, didn't get the message.
37. And who does he blame?
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 05:53 PM
Dec 2015

"we’ve seen Democrats and a lot of establishment Republicans in Washington get involved in toppling Middle Eastern governments."

Yep, it's all Democrats and a handful of a specific type of Republicans who are responsible. Those hardcore conservatives whom Cruz purports to represent -- had no hand in any of it.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
41. Juan Cole: No, Donald Trump, Mideast wouldn’t be more Stable under Saddam & other Dictators
Fri Dec 11, 2015, 07:01 PM
Dec 2015

The mistake Mr. Trump is making is to think ahistorically, that is, to think as though societies do not change dramatically over time. The Neoconservatives thought they could install a king over Iraq in 2003. But Iraqi society had overthrown the kings in 1958, and there is no going back. History may not be dialectical in exactly the Hegelian sense, but any historical situation does produce other, different situations over time. Moreover, societies can change dramatically. History is not static. It is not like a slab of marble. Historical developments produce new and different historical situations over time, and new generations react to the previous ones by striking out in different direction, even at great risk.

How anyone in his right mind could think that Bashar al-Assad (r. 2000- present) brought stability to Syria just baffles me. He provoked the 2011 uprisings and he caused the civil war by deploying his military against the peaceful demonstrators. That’s stability? It is mostly his fault that over 200,000 Syrians are dead and 11 million out of 22 million are homeless. If you are president and your country is in this condition, you don’t get to say you brought stability. Nor is the problem outsiders. In 2011 there was almost no outside interference in Syria. Bashar drove the opposition to pick up arms. The largely rural and illiterate Syria of 1970 when Bashar’s father came to power is long gone. You can’t keep them on the farm once they have seen gay Paree.

Libya under Gaddafi was not stable by 2011, and it was not the United Nations no-fly zone that made it unstable. It was unstable because Gaddafi’s secret police state had lost its authority for a majority of the population, which rose up against it. That is clear instability, and it was provoked by Gaddafi’s erratic and sclerotic dictatorship and by massive repression. I wandered the halls of the courthouse in Benghazi in May of 2011 and the walls were full of pitiful old black and white pictures of young men, including soldiers, whom Gaddafi had made to disappear, asking plaintively if anyone knew their fate (we know their fate).

Does Mr. Trump believe that Europe was more stable when Erich Honecker ruled significant swathes of Germany with an iron fist? Or when Tito headed Yugoslavia? Inflexible dictatorships that cannot adapt to social change and the rise of new generations cause instability, Mr. Trump. They don’t forestall it. Or, they don’t forestall it for more than a generation.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/10/mideast-wouldnt-dictators.html

Change "Trump" to "Cruz" (or any other republican presidential candidate) and Dr. Cole's advice applies equally well.

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