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niyad

(113,532 posts)
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:36 PM Dec 2015

 In the So-Called ‘Abortion Wars,’ Only One Side Is Murdering the Other

 In the So-Called ‘Abortion Wars,’ Only One Side Is Murdering the Other


Kurt Eichenwald’s Newsweek cover story completely misunderstands the fight over abortion in the United States.


 A sign in support of Planned Parenthood stands outside the Colorado Springs clinic two days after the shooting, on November 29, 2015. (AP Photo / David Zalubowski)



It’s been a while since a journalist set the world straight on this whole abortion thing. Dana Milbank did it a few years ago in his Washington Post column—if only “both sides” would stop grandstanding and endorse contraception! David Frum had some thoughts about it, and so, way back in time, did abortion opponents Christopher Hitchens and Andrew Sullivan. Usually these people find abortion disturbing/wrong/immoral. Usually they don’t know much about the subject and are just parachuting in. And yes, usually these people are men.

“I am opposed to abortion,” Kurt Eichenwald begins his Newsweek cover story “America’s Abortion Wars (and How to End Them).” “I am opposed to abortion. I believe women have the right to choose. This is not a contradiction.” Well, okay. Most Americans would sort of agree with him on that—they don’t like abortion, but they want it to stay legal. “Opposed” is a strong word, though, and Eichenwald never bothers to explain why he is against abortion, or why his opinion matters, or what it means. Would he urge a wife, a lover, a child, a friend to keep an unwanted pregnancy? Would he support efforts to persuade others that abortion is wrong? His statement just hangs there, demonstrating his impartiality and seriousness, as part of his overall strategy of equating pro-choice and anti-choice movements. We’re “a country torn apart by absolutists.” “Both arguments are infused with hypocrisy, and consequences often go unconsidered while bumper-sticker logic prevails.” On the one hand, “Male commentators are frequently—and often rightfully—accused by pro-choice advocates of ‘mansplaining.’” On the other, “anyone broaching the other side of the argument is deemed a baby killer.” According to Eichenwald, accusing a man of “telling women what to think” is like accusing an abortion provider of murdering children. Really? As the blogger Choice Joyce asked, “When’s the last time you heard about a deranged feminist going on a murderous shooting rampage against mansplainers?”

Sorry, Newsweek. In the so-called abortion wars, only one side is murdering the other. Pro-choicers don’t invade Christian “crisis pregnancy centers,” guns blazing; they don’t picket Catholic churches and scream at the people going into worship. Only one side wants to force women to do their bidding. Only one side fights broad access to birth control and realistic sex education. Only one side has allied itself with the Republican Party, which wants to cut every program and rescind every law that helps women and children and promotes gender equality in the work place.

Eichenwald fails to realize that his “brilliant new idea” is what today’s reproductive-rights movement is all about. What makes Eichenwald’s “both sides do it” claim so strange is that his piece is actually a sustained and detailed attack on the anti-choice movement. He makes a forceful case that it lies about the safety of abortion in order to close clinics and doesn’t care if women die. He reminds readers that abortion is safer than childbirth and that women have abortions whether or not abortion is legal (before Roe, as he notes, American women had over 1 million abortions per year, about the same as now in a much smaller population). He claims almost nobody really believes that fertilized eggs are people, and argues for the abortion rights of rape victims by citing Judith Jarvis Thomson’s thought experiment in which a woman wakes up to find herself hooked up to a famous violinist who will die if she denies him the use of her body as a support system. He points out that most abortions happen in the first trimester, and only 1.5 percent after 21 weeks, although abortion opponents love to talk about the latter. By contrast, he makes no specific arguments against the pro-choice position. So where’s the “absolutism” on the abortion-rights side? Where’s the hypocrisy and the bumper-sticker logic? He never says.

. . . .

http://www.thenation.com/article/in-the-so-called-abortion-wars-only-one-side-is-murdering-the-other/

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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 In the So-Called ‘Abortion Wars,’ Only One Side Is Murdering the Other (Original Post) niyad Dec 2015 OP
well, those of us in the pro-reproductive rights movement since way back are now CTyankee Dec 2015 #1
Like you, I am, and have been, a staunch pro-reproductive rights advocate from the niyad Dec 2015 #2
well, I think it was a good argument...after all, isn't all religion based on moral choices? CTyankee Dec 2015 #5
and thank you for those very kind words. I envy you a bit--cannot say the same about the reps niyad Dec 2015 #6
it puts a heavy load on those of you fighting for social justice, not just abortion but the whole CTyankee Dec 2015 #7
living in fundieville and militaryville makes it even harder, but makes us that much more determined niyad Dec 2015 #8
I always find that a rerun of MASH with Col. Potter is one of the best uses of our time watching CTyankee Dec 2015 #11
definitely with you on that!! niyad Dec 2015 #12
. . . niyad Dec 2015 #3
Can't agree with the title of this, although I understand the connotation. lapislzi Dec 2015 #4
I am too and I know we are not supposed to say that, but I say "thank goddess we have CTyankee Dec 2015 #9
your points are very well made. but I think the title reflects what many of us know, and it isn't niyad Dec 2015 #10
I knew one woman who regretted her abortion. I asked her what happened and she CTyankee Dec 2015 #13
the situation you described is not that uncommon. can only imagine how difficult it must have niyad Dec 2015 #14
I won't go into details but this man was working with me in a very liberal nonprofit CTyankee Dec 2015 #15
would say that you are quite correct about him--would guess that abusive bully was probably the niyad Dec 2015 #16
he didn't want another child and perhaps it was for economic reasons, I don't know. CTyankee Dec 2015 #17
100% agreement. lapislzi Dec 2015 #18
I am so glad that your life turned out so well. and so glad you got to say something to the guy, niyad Dec 2015 #19
. . . niyad Dec 2015 #20

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
1. well, those of us in the pro-reproductive rights movement since way back are now
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:23 AM
Dec 2015

finding ourselves in thoughtful conversations with liberal Dem men who are very uncomfortable with abortion, such as I am finding myself with a good friend of ours. His former wife had an abortion that he opposed and it might have just finished his marriage when they divorced 8 years ago (altho his one time iinfidelity he says was the cause).

In talking with him I found him open to my strong prochoice arguments and feelings but his bottom line was "I wish I had had some say in it," while acknowledging that the law guaranteed he didn't. I explained why I felt abortion is basically a moral act, made by human beings who are moral agents and moral agency is the key difference between us and other primates...

This all gets into a very basic level of our views on moral choice in human beings. It is, I think, in my case a life's philosophy. And I have never had an abortion.

Anyway, my husband feels as I do and as strongly. And our friend is still our friend. I hope I did make a difference for the prochoice point of view with that conversation with him...

niyad

(113,532 posts)
2. Like you, I am, and have been, a staunch pro-reproductive rights advocate from the
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 12:15 PM
Dec 2015

beginning. and it floors me when I have to explain this position to liberal, dem men. I hope that your friend heard and understood what you had to say. Am glad that you were able to have such a conversation with him.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
5. well, I think it was a good argument...after all, isn't all religion based on moral choices?
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:53 PM
Dec 2015

With our friend, it seemed to be so personal, having to do with his marriage which he had wished could be saved, I tried to avoid anything emotional. But it was a difficult conversation to have. Yet he know very well that I have worked for a local clinic here in New Haven and I have worked for Planned Parenthood raising money. We are so lucky. We have two wonderful pro-choice senators and pro choice House reps, plus a wonderful governor.

Thanks for the thread, niyad. I wish you a wonderful new year ahead and look forward to all of your posts!

niyad

(113,532 posts)
6. and thank you for those very kind words. I envy you a bit--cannot say the same about the reps
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:09 PM
Dec 2015

for this state--certainly not cory gardner, nor the idiot who "represents" the district in which I live, not to mention those sitting in the state lege.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
7. it puts a heavy load on those of you fighting for social justice, not just abortion but the whole
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:12 PM
Dec 2015

agenda that is so important.

I know you are fighting hard. Thanks for all you do!

niyad

(113,532 posts)
8. living in fundieville and militaryville makes it even harder, but makes us that much more determined
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:15 PM
Dec 2015

wishing you a very happy new year.

as col. potter said, “Here’s to the new year. May she be a damn sight better than the old one, and may we may we all be home before she’s over.”

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
11. I always find that a rerun of MASH with Col. Potter is one of the best uses of our time watching
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:19 PM
Dec 2015

TV. I could easily binge watch those segments...

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
4. Can't agree with the title of this, although I understand the connotation.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 12:57 PM
Dec 2015

Before I begin, I am not only pro-choice, I am pro-abortion. I think that there are many instances where abortion is the best possible outcome of a pregnancy. It is also none of my business what a woman or couple decides with their doctor, what to do about a pregnancy. I had an abortion when I was a young woman. I never felt a moment's regret about it, and I don't expect that's going to change.

THAT BEING SAID...I think it's disingenuous to claim that "only one side is murdering..." etc. While it is true that only anti-choicers are murdering adult humans, the anti-choice pro-birth anti-social safety net brigade very much believes that abortion is murder. I'd guess that most rational people think this is nonsense, but I'd like to see Eichenwald's source for the claim that "almost nobody really believes that fertilized eggs are people." I have a feeling that plenty of ignorant, religiously indoctrinated people believe this very thing.

I'm not suggesting that these beliefs deserve respect or consideration within rational discourse, but you can bet your bottom dollar that one side thinks BOTH sides are murdering, and that their murdering is somehow morally justified by their religious beliefs. There's no science to that position, which is why it has no place in the discussion. I think that is what the author really means, but the claim that "only one side is murdering" has the effect of shutting down any discussion.

I just don't see this as a winning position. And yes, I generally dislike it when men write articles taking positions about abortion. They can think and opine all they like, but when the rubber meets the road, nine times out of ten, they need to STFU. (I'm giving them 10% because sometimes the decision is made within the context of a caring and supportive relationship).

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
9. I am too and I know we are not supposed to say that, but I say "thank goddess we have
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:17 PM
Dec 2015

abortion as a safe, legal and available option where women decide on something so important and personal as whether or not to bring a child into the world." I can't imagine anything more important than this choice. And I think this is the argument we should be putting forth.

niyad

(113,532 posts)
10. your points are very well made. but I think the title reflects what many of us know, and it isn't
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:18 PM
Dec 2015

likely that those who disagree read katha's work.

none of the women I know who have had abortions have ever regretted them, a fact that the woman-hating gestational slavers do their best to avoid.

agree that the men can opine, but do need to, at the last, stfu. it isn't their bodies, their lives, involved and at risk.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
13. I knew one woman who regretted her abortion. I asked her what happened and she
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:38 PM
Dec 2015

told me that her husband had threatened to leave her if she went ahead with the pregnancy. She and he already had a child, then about 2 years old, and altho this pregnancy had been accidental she felt it was wrong to abort.

So she didn't really have a choice after all. I worked with her husband and I really was disgusted with what he had done to his wife. It still makes me mad as hell. He had no right to treat her so badly...

niyad

(113,532 posts)
14. the situation you described is not that uncommon. can only imagine how difficult it must have
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:41 PM
Dec 2015

been to work with such a person without tearing into said personl

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
15. I won't go into details but this man was working with me in a very liberal nonprofit
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:51 PM
Dec 2015

organization and this was many years ago when Roe had just been handed down.

Many years later I looked him up on Google and saw that he and she had gotten a divorce a few years after that incident and he had remarried. I'm sure he was pretty intolerable in other ways...

niyad

(113,532 posts)
16. would say that you are quite correct about him--would guess that abusive bully was probably the
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:53 PM
Dec 2015

least unkind thing one could say.

cannot imagine what someone like him was doing working for a liberal non-profit. very weird, unless he was trying a trojan horse strategy.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
17. he didn't want another child and perhaps it was for economic reasons, I don't know.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:04 PM
Dec 2015

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I just remember how sad she looked and how mad she was. Surprisingly so...I remember her saying "I think abortion IS murder." Dear god, she went through a procedure in such emotional pain...it must have been awful for her...

Like I said to our friend, "Look, I know you say you want a say in this but you can't. She, and only she, is the decider and that is how it HAS to be." and then I went on with my argument. I think I pretty much overwhelmed him but since he is such a good friend he was very respectful and there were no hard feelings...

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
18. 100% agreement.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:40 PM
Dec 2015

I cannot imagine what my life would be like now if I had borne that baby. I was alone, living in a foreign country (that fortunately had a liberal abortion policy), and dumped by my boyfriend. None of the options was good, and I chose from the best of a bad lot. I am very glad I did, as I was able to complete my education, travel, and move on to good jobs. And have a child when it was the right time for me. When I ran into the dude in a bar one evening, I told him. He expressed dismay. As if.

niyad

(113,532 posts)
19. I am so glad that your life turned out so well. and so glad you got to say something to the guy,
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 10:06 PM
Dec 2015

even if he was lying through his teeth!!

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