I wish there was a way to seize the company and turn it over to the workers.

In a worker owned enterprise, would the business still be a corporation, with the workers as the sole shareholders? Or would it be like a partnership, with each employee responsible for a share of the liabilities as well as owning a share of the assets?

If someone leaves, whether voluntarily or not, what happens to their ownership share? Would they be required to surrender it? If that ownership share has a negative value, would the released worker have to pay their portion of debts?

I'm not against worker owned co-operatives. I certainly think it is better in most cases than state ownership. But there needs to be some rules and standards laid down.

to shut this place down if they restricted the people's right to pray etc.

I am against capitalism for the most part but am aware what I want aint gonna happen

benefits, condition of employment, etc

You can bet if some group wanted Christian prayer rooms and circles every break, he'd have no problem telling them to shut up like all of us would.

during their breaks. From the article: "The workers have previously been using time carved out of a 15-minute break period, or time from their unpaid 30-minute lunch break." If they want to pray during their breaks it's their own damn business. Why should the company prohibit it?

the workers who are Muslims were demanding that they be allowed to pray 5 times during the working hours, that's unacceptable.

I don't see where in the article it says that they're demanding timing during work for praying (other than on their breaks). If they are I would agree with you.

but only 2-3 employees at a time so as to not interrupt operations, now they're saying that they have to pray at home.

They prayed on breaks and at staggered times, a few people at each time so not to impact production. They are line workers and the business is dependent on a line that never stops or slows. If you are a line worker that's what you sign up for.

But now the Muslim workers are demanding that they be allowed to go as a group. About 10% of the workers would be off the line five times a day at times that change with the length of the day. I think that is an unreasonable imposition on the business, and moreover unfair to the other workers.

this would be an unacceptable burden on the company and other non muslim employees, the company is doing the right thing.

I agree with you guys.

going down the road of saying that only rights enumerated in the Constitution are rights...

You have no right to free speech, no right to practice your religion, no right to bear arms on your employer's property or on their dime if they say you can't.

I shouldn't have to even say this.

The rights entailed under the Constitution are your rights as a citizen, not an employee.

Try this Free Speech test: Go into your boss's office and call him a jackass.

See how that works out.

It contains an entire section on what employers are required to do in order to provide reasonable accommodations for the free practice of religion in the workplace. Based on that, yes, employees do have a right to pray in the workplace.

However, my point was that it's not a good idea to imply, as the previous poster did, that unless a right is enumerated in the Constitution, it doesn't really exist.

Reasonable accommodations do not translate to "you have to give us anything we want".

You really do not have freedom of religion at your employer. You cannot practice your religion as you see fit at your employer's expense.

Who said otherwise?

But praying in the workplace on their breaks is a far cry from being told they have no right to pray, that employers don't have to allow them to pray, and that they should keep their religion at home, all of which has been said in this thread.

And unless practice of your religion places an undue burden on the employer or other employees, then yes, you do have freedom of religion at your workplace. You may not like it, but it's the law.

By your standards, if a conservative Baptist Kroger cashier wants to give everyone a tract and refuse to sell them alcohol, that is OK if that is what their beliefs are?

Where did I say that it was?

As for your example, you can't make an intelligent guess about what is acceptable under my "standards", because I've not said anything about what I consider reasonable or unreasonable. All I've done is point out that saying employees have no right to pray at work is not only wrong, it is illegal.

And no, it would not be reasonable to allow a cashier to refuse to sell alcohol or to hand out religious tracts. It would be reasonable to allow her to wear a religious scarf or religious jewelry, and to allow her uninterrupted time during her break to pray or worship as she chooses.

go to Mass daily.

Breaks and timing of them are usually contractual matters with Unions, so my guess is that these workers are asking for that which is not in the collectively bargained agreement.

It was dumb to walk out.

The local might fight for their jobs, but the employer would be able to strand on the contract and refuse to re-hire.

You never walk off the job, it is considered a quit and treated as such. Makes things really difficult for any union to fight for you if you do, they don't have any legal leg to stand on.

At work?

Strong unions create benefits for workers.

I have worked at companies with strong unions. I have never seen a "right to pray" anywhere in my life.

Just as they have the right to eat, sleep, talk, read, etc.

And that one is employee owned.

It is still operating in a capitalist environment. And they seem to be doing a good job of it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publix

It ended up with a lot of dead and impoverished people. Owners have property rights in civilized countries. Seizing property because you're mad at a company would lead to chaos. Now Zimbabwe is starving and need international aid so their people don't starve to death.

Thank heavens that suggestion will never be taken seriously.

Happy New Year!

Who would decide on appropriate compensation?
Who would be the boss?
What qualifies he/she to be the boss?
Would it then be a limited partnership ? LLC? C Corp? S Corp?
What about the stock holders?
How would stock dividends be divided?
How would that effect the existing employees 401K?
Would there be a Governing board?
How does one get to be on the Governing board?
Would "the workers" handle all legal disputes?
Who decides on the theme for the non-denominational end of the year Holiday celebration?

I could go on.....

Which is why the process is usually so chaotic and deadly. "My neighbors are ____, time to take their house! Oh they're refusing? Kill em!"

It ends when most businesses are seized and destroyed from mismanagement.

but honestly I don't think an employer is obligated to provide prayer time and space.

it is a personal matter.

without stopping the work. I gather that the requests got to be too many, and so some were refused.

The workers ought to have addressed this through their union; any non-union action is highly suspect.

I tried to find the other side of the story, but all I could find was a short press release yesterday from CAIR:
http://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/13330-cair-to-outline-talks-with-cargill-about-walkout-by-200-colorado-muslim-workers-over-prayer-dispute.html

I don't think any employer or organization should accommodate silly religious rules.

If they don't like it, find employment elsewhere.

It's time for the human race to stop bending over backwards for silly superstitions.

I'm so sick of this extreme religious crap from every stripe. There is no place for it in civic life, nor should there be.

Swift/Eckrich employs thousands of Somali persons at their Plants in Nebraska,Utah,and Iowa. Cargill had a Plant in eastern Nebraska that employed many Somali's. Other than the Local Ho-rahs,this is the first labor grief since the Kosher Plant issue in Iowa.

And did they have same for other religions and also end it for them ?

one of the conference rooms for a bible study group weekly at lunch. There are about 8-10 people that attend. They used to put it in the weekly company newsletter distributed to the entire company, but don't do that any more.

Just seemed really odd to me.

I believe that regardless of the religion, it is a personal thing and should be kept out of the workplace (among other things)

And some of our conference rooms are used for Bible study, prayer groups, etc. It's posted on the bulletin boards in break rooms, and on the non-official internal "bulletin board" on-line.

There is a also a Catholic Mass on Holy Days of Obligation for those that wish to participate.

These included very small (8 employees) to very large (>100,000 employees). All except the last one were on the east coast (Northeast and Mid-Atlantic).

Interesting the government allows that.

No reason not to, IMO.

That's the real question to ask.

considering that you have a picture of Jimmy Carter on your profile.....a born again Christian.

Other than that, I fail to see what that has to do with my post.

What problem exactly is a company solving with meat, that we don't know about?
Do we have "milk solutions" or "vegetable solutions" companies processing stuff?

If Cargill wants to get all 'solutiony" let them figure out how to allow prayer times or something.THAT seems to be a problem for them.

and restaurant chains and such. "Solution" seems to be some kind of marketing speak for 'services' or 'products'.

That was a step too far. Once they walked out and didn't notify their employer, it's all over.

demanding the company shut down the line so all could pray at the same time.

And when their wives and children are hungry, I suppose they'll say "Allah wanted me to pray five times a day."

Well, I guess Allah doesn't want them to have a job!

Plus just not showing up for three days is job abandonment.

Who ever was advising those employees did a piss poor job.

I can't see the Union advising them to walk out, matter of fact, the Union would tell them not to because then they would be subject to termination.

harder. I can understand the workers' point of view, but asking that the plant lines be shut down several times a day is not reasonable.

In Saudi Arabia, everything does shut down during working hours for 10 or 15 minutes.

There are five prescribed prayer times. I doubt many companies could do this.

They have 2,100 employees and they fired 190. I wonder where their union stands in all of this

The company doesn't owe one slim dime towards time to talk to the voices in your head.

The company is saying that there has been no changes in their prayer policy, the workers say that there has.

Who is right?

If the workers on their own are pulling an independent action, then the leadership of the union is out of touch.

That never stopped us from rushing to judgment.

Truer words were never spoken.

Unions work by collective bargaining, and once an agreement has been reached the union reps are often responsible for seeing that workers hold to it.

It is significant that this was not a union action and not a grievance apparently taken through union procedures, which are there to protect the workers.

Until we do, we can only get involved in Creative Speculation, a DU tradition.

They didn't have the authority to do that or encourage a walk out.

Sounds like they fucked up big time.

diversity business has got to stop.

... and this is a private business, so they can negotiate what the want in the end.

But people should keep their religion to themselves.
In this case, I completely agree with what Cargill is doing.

And I couldn't care less if these folks are from Somalia -- that is a red herring -- I would be just as opposed to special 'prayer' time for U.S. born Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Christians, etc.

a corporation. I have no tolerance for religious exceptions in public/civic life. No religion should be given exceptions. Not in this country.

Audit the hell out of them.

The company says nothing has changed. They allowed a few people off the line at a time in order to keep the production line running. No one would assume having to shut the production line down for prayers as a reasonable accommodation. Companies are required to make a reasonable accommodation for religious employees. The employees that were fired had been absent for three days which would be job abandonment.

they have nothing to fear

you have nothing to fear, right?

They walked off the job willingly, they were given a chance to return, they didn't, they were terminated, lawfully.
I find your willingness to use a govt. agency to harass a company, who did nothing wrong, quite RW.
Nice company you keep there.

I find your willingness to do so quite RW. Nice company you keep there.

the union rep advised them not to, but they got some bad advice from CAIR and the rest is history.

And the union doesn't seem to be on board with the walkout.

They weren't fired because they wanted to pray, they were fired because they CHOSE not to come to work for three days.

what they're doing?
How very progressive of you.