We should wait them out, then arrest them individually after they go home and proclaim victory.

with that mess at the Bundy ranch? Feds really taught them a lesson there, didn't they. Oh, wait......never mind.

and that they officially object to that part of the takeover.

The LDS hierarchy has for decades supported materially the whole "Sagebrush" riot act. In fact they are up to their billionaire cattle ranching asses in it. The LDS is and has been deeply if unofficially involved in funding both the Sagebrush and Militia movements. Plausible deniability got a whole new meaning on this one.

Officially the LDS do not support violent acts. However they have a very long history of resisting and refusing Federal agencies especially when it comes to Federal lands in Utah. Understand this clearly: the LDS is both a religious culture and a huge corporate business. The two parts do not always agree about what is and is not appropriate to do, but that has never stopped the corporate side from pursuing agendas it favors.

The LDS many not desire a violent resolution but they certainly benefit materially and politically from every step backward groups like the Bundys can get Fish & Game, and the BLM to take. Logically it is in their interest to support those activities so long as it is not public nor in the form of official Church approval.

A significant minority of the LDS senior hierarchy are also personally heavily invested in ranching. They have supported materially groups that resist federal regulation and have at times conveniently claimed the church organisation to be immune from federal jurisdiction. What this means in practical terms is the church sets its own rules about how things will be done on ranches the church and church members own. Where they can they take advantage of federal range for grazing as other ranchers do and in much the same way they get away with what they can when they can. It is an uneasy but conventional peace-so to speak. However when you take into account how large the holdings of the LDS are this can have a much larger impact on land and water than the typical ranch operation. Small infractions over a herd of thousands can have quite an effect.
The LDS is predatory as a matter of business policy so as to grow the herd, the ranch lands and industry. This is very old news to anyone who lives in the west.

The LDS has an active political agenda within and outside of Utah and has invested many millions to that effect including advocating for the Sagebrush agenda in much the same way they did against Gay marriage in California, ie: both through public remarks and dark money programs. Also old news.

And none of that is evidence; just more conjecture and assertion - you seem to want me to believe it just because you say it. That's not really enough. I'm certainly willing to believe that Individual Mormons are acting badly; but the Church as a whole, i'd need actual evidence, not just assertion.

Bryant

Last edited Tue Jan 12, 2016, 07:31 AM - Edit history (1)

I do not make these remarks lightly nor in offense to your faith or that of other practicing Mormons.
I repeat that there are 2 parts to the LDS church. The church Corporate has a long history of acting in its own interest as other corporations have done. Google it if you have that many doubts.
The case of the church acting in California elections to influence the vote about Gay marriage is well documented. I raise it as example only not to argue the merits.
I have personally seen the activities of the church in southwestern Montana and would prefer they did not assume the right to colonize us. Our local taxes should not subsidize their expansionist plans.
As far as their record of supporting resistance to Federal authority by active and passive means there is an even longer record that you could look up if you really wanted to know.

edit: one source would be this: http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/04/constitutional-crisis-in-the-heart-of-dixie/ It is detailed and contains other references which might help explain.

they have been harping on the extremes of person liberty for a good year now do to marriage equality. Their rhetoric does not match their claims.

renounce the takeover?

They have now apparently taken down a fence and possibly moved from misdemeanor trespass to felony trespass. I think the FBI is giving them enough rope to hang themselves.

Criminal Trespass
The crime of criminal trespass involves a person knowingly entering or remaining on a property on which he knows he does not have permission to be. Criminal trespass is most often a misdemeanor, though it can be prosecuted as a felony, especially if the trespass results in damage to persons or property.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/facts_5877144_difference-between-trespassing-criminal-trespassing.html

The militia movement has coalesced around its adherents' common creeping loss of privilege. Standoffs aborted by law enforcement reinforce the privilege the militants are clinging to. I cannot believe that they will be permitted to flout the law again.

This is about taking public land and outing it in the hands of wealthy people.

And it appears to me that people in our government wants that to happen, because if they did not they would have cut the power and blocked all contact and it would have been over by now.

The money interest have purchased the government and now they want the public land.

Without reference to either Wounded Knee or Philadelphia the Feds seem to have a limited range of operational programs when it comes to arresting armed individuals who threaten armed resistance.
The FBI are listed as the lead law enforcement on this by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service website. It remains to be seen whether they have the horse sense it will take to end this without a gun battle.
It is clear that something should have been done in the months after Bundy Ranch. I am confused at the behavior of the FBI and Justice Dept over that. They have no problem arresting unarmed seniors growing pot to cope with glaucoma and other age related illness. They historically had problems with arresting armed white Mob figures alive, or serving warrants on investment bankers above the level of branch manager. Why they would have any difficulty surrounding and disarming 12-20 middle aged white guys armed with more than attitude escapes me.

What happens when militias start doing this all across the country?

What with Abbott calling for a Constitutional Convention.

so if they get away with doing this we will have armed thugs all over the country doing the same. This is not looking good.