General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou want to fight obesity, try banning HFCS (high fructose corn syrup)
and especially the stuff that comes from genetically modified corn crops.
Its in everything these days in lieu of sugar. The bad thing it when your body takes in real sugar it says, "yummy, sugar, that was satisfying". When your body takes in fructose it cant process it quick enough and therefore turns it in to fatty triglycerides and says "hey, I could really go for some glucose (sugar)"
You want to ban something, start regulating HFCS. It tastes sweet to the tongue, is cheaper than sugar to make, but turns immediately to fat in the body's system.
Or maybe we could educate people so that they could make informed decisions and not have to criminalize everything that some deem "bad". I'd prefer a Teacher State to a Nanny State anyway.
(steps off of soapbox)
Bettie
(16,121 posts)Now, just wait for the tide of HFCS defenders....they're there, I can feel them!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I don't want a nanny state. We sound like big government leftists when we preach ban this and ban that because that's just what we are.
I think that it is much better to teach personal responsibility from childhood to adulthood by teaching what things cause obesity and how to avoid them. Going down the path of banning everything we think is causing obesity is an never ending project and makes us weaker by taking away the need for personal responsibility. That leads us to blindly excepting everything thrown at us because we have lost the ability to critically think for ourselves.
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)That sounds like a faux news dittohead teabagger term.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)and think of us as big government leftists. That they think that is true no matter if it is on faux news or from a teabagger.
Rather than snark me think a little why don't you?
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)crazy talking point. They have been propagandizing for years with this "government bad" meme.
It is bullshit. In fact, it is killing our democracy.
We need a strong big government to provide for the general welfare of our strong big country.
Our government is Us (or should be).
We need to stand up to corporations who think they can do whatever is best for the bottom line, be it polluting our air, or poisoning our children with HFCS.
randome
(34,845 posts)Because from where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like parents are stepping up to the plate on this one. A little 'encouragement' from the government would be a good thing.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)When you make a false statement everything that depends on it is false. Logic 101.
randome
(34,845 posts)I was saying that since parents aren't teaching personal responsibility, who is left? The government?
I'd rather have the government ban a certain sized cup rather than try to teach personal responsibility to my children. That's why I don't see the harm in the proposal.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)That government is the only power with even the potential of working for your benefit?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)There must be millions of organizations around the world working for people's benefit and wellbeing.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Really? You're funny, keep going upaloopa.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed", do you really not understand this foundational principle of our nation? Society literally cannot exist without government, and as we allow our government to be destroyed society disintegrates. Just read the news.
Do you really believe that the Gates Foundation, for example, is going to drop $200M on your district to fix your schools and if they do will they do the same for mine? Is Catholic Charities going to stop your neighbor from putting his septic tank next to your well?
Government is bureaucratic, frustrating, frequently arbitrary, too expensive, and the only thing between you and the worst of the worst.
obamanut2012
(26,111 posts)"personal responsibility"
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)If you don't practice personal responsibility who do you think is responsible for your actions?
You know every wise teacher throughout the ages preached personal responsibility. Dr Martin Luther King preached it, t is a very important part if the teachings of the Dali Lama who is no slouch.
As far as big government leftist, I am saying that that is the point of view from the right when we ask government to be our nannies and that is no laughing matter because it gives aid and comfort to those who are out to suppress us.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)And who asked government to be our nannies? You are in over your head here. Let me throw you an anchor.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Common you can do better than that!
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Sorry no more time for you. You are very boring and your manual must be broken.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)and too many communities, especially the poor ones, have stores FULL of junk food, with NO access to healthy organically grown produce and products. Schools are serving junk, and our commercial junk food empire, is built around extremely unhealthy food additives that are totally unnecessary to be added to foods.
Unnecessary and toxic additives to food is what happens in unregulated 3rd world countries--because $$ greedy corporations do not regulate themselves, they just want profits and do not care about public health. So these companies will sell junk--and profit in the healthcare industry at the same time when people inevitably suffer consequences from eating too much of these additives.
Regulations are in place to assure that the common citizen has access to clean food and healthy and safe environment on an equal basis to the rich privileged people--THAT is why they are in place.
Adding toxins to food is both irresponsible and delusional--and has NOTHING to do with critical thinking. There is nothing wrong with teaching critical thinking too--this country has too little of it. Critical thinking is great--but so is responsibility to the planet and all the innocent beings living on it.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)to take the responsibility to watch what I eat and exercise daily. No matter what is taken out of my food, the fact that I have to take responsibility for my weight will remain.
Today society is not about to ban HFCS. So what should we do? Wait until we can convince some power to do that for us?
What can we do today to effect the situation? Just what I said in my original post.
I don't disagree that we should not have shit added to our food but that isn't realistic.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Believe it or not, parents do have the ability to control what their kids eat and drink.
nadine_mn
(3,702 posts)It may seem like a no brainer - but look at the bombardment of marketing from fast food every single day. I just watched Food Inc, and even though I consider myself to be educated and informed, it blew me away.
We aren't teaching healthy eating habits - its like an entire generation missed out on what used to be taken for granted.
Komputernut
(16 posts)Well said...
I just wrote this in the post on banning soda,but I think it applies equally here
Removing choices as a way to prevent harm should only be done in relation to the consequences of the choices. If the result is acute harm (and sugar clearly doesn't cause acute harm) then the cost of having those choices in our society can rightly be deemed unacceptable.
The problem I see is when the gov starts making choices that people should, through education and cultural influence, be making for themselves, I think the result can be an inclination to stop thinking and an expectation that the gov will care for us. We must view education as the best defense against a culture that desires freedom to make bad choices.
To add to the above
The Government definitely needs to get involved. But not through bans...
Ask yourself why corn syrup is so profitable and then you'd be moving in the right direction. If you want industry to consider alternatives, you have to remove built in financial incentives. Corn is big business and is subsidized by government. Remove the subsidy and other sugar alternatives and their prices start to fall back into line.
I'd add that I question HFCS and the allegations that somehow the body processes it differently. I really appreciate some evidence to this claim.
I've been following a particular YouTube user, a man who is a scientist and understands the science and is someone , who at least as far as I'm concerned, is interested in reason, logic and evidence, not hype. He did a piece on HFCS....
Here is his description of the video followed by the link to the video itself. You make the call.
"Let's get the facts straight about the nutritive sweeteners (sugars). I will not defend HFCS; it is just as bad as sucrose or honey or fruit juice. It may even be ever so slightly worse for the following reasons:
1. Industry like to use it.
2. It's a bit cheaper, thanks to US corn policies.
3. We love to eat it.
but the root of the problem is the collision of our biology (we love sweetness) and our economic system (companies will sell what we will buy). What's needed is some self-awareness, some discipline, and some education about health risks.
That's my goal with this video. I'm not here to point the finger of blame. I'm not here to offer scare tactics or corporate apologetics. These are the facts, as well as my take on the issue.
I'm sure I made at least one factual error (not counting my backwards swastikas). First one to spot it will get a $5 donation to MSF made in their name."
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)when these substances are only empty calories, which cause people to physically and psychologically crave more food since their cells are starving for real nutrients. These additives cause people to crave more of the same empty calories--they taste and smell good--so they are sort of addictive. The result is malnutrition.
So the corporations are falsely advertising these substances as being food staples, sugar should not be eaten with every meal 24/7--instead should be an occasional treat or in much smaller amounts.
I am sure most people agree with all of this--but the argument is not whether HFCS is like sugar or not, it is that many additives, either by themselves or in combination with other substances appear to be highly addictive. If our natural instincts were intact, wouldn't we be craving what our bodies need? I wonder about these things (not providing a link here, just my opinions and observations).
Wishing you and everyone here health and long life I actually respect people at mealtime...but feel strongly about nutrition.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)It's not as if the dangers weren't known for 100 years before the U.S. banned its use.
There are things manufactured that become a public health hazard and an effective government addresses the problem for all of its citizens.
Kingofalldems
(38,469 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)kinda like now. so how does personal responsibility factor into this. i suppose you could drink only water. we ban 10year olds from driving should that be allowed and "just teach personal responsibilities" what about heroin or ddt. how does teaching personal responsibilities prevent my child from consuming ddt when all the farmers use it (before banning) please spare the right-wing talking points
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Believe it or not, Coke and Pepsi would rather sell you something with sucrose than not sell you anything. Stop buying HFCS soda, buy other company's soda with sucrose, and "the big boys" will come around.
Pepsi already is with all their "throwback" versions - the primary difference is sucrose instead of HFCS, and less of it.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)there were no "throwbacks" by anyone untill recently. and the only reason it's making a comeback is b/c of the price of "real" sugar and hfcs.
TBF
(32,086 posts)tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)And it is much easier said than done. HFCS is in many foods where I would never THINK to add cane sugar to--- ie bread, pasta sauce, etc.
I am seeing foods put on their packaging "no HFCS" in large letters, which helps a lot.
jonthebru
(1,034 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Stop consuming it
get the red out
(13,468 posts)I'm not obese, unfortunately many people are.
The current obesity problem along with rise in type II Diabetes began around the time HFCS was massively introduced into processed foods to keep the price low. Unfortunately the health costs are very high.
Of course ending corn subsidies might help too, but that would raise prices and drive people nuts.
I agree though, to take care of yourself it's good to read lables and take personal responsibility.
A lot of people will say it's just sugar, oh well, I don't want to consume the stuff.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)syrupy, thick and almost gooey. Yech. I glommed on to a few bottles of Mexican Coke last weeek at the grocery store. Only sugar is used and it tastes the way Coke did when I was a kid - the cola flavor has a crisp crack on the tongue, not a gloppy quality.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)I can tast the difference in most foods and soda that has HFCS does nothing for my thirst and actually makes it worse because it is so syrupy. I can't stand the taste.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)It's cut my consumption down quite a lot.
Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)about people taking responsibility for their own portion size. Educate people about moderation. Sugar isn't the only thing to blame for obesity.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)It really isn't good for you.
Heck, if you can limit sugar consumption it is best.
However, I wouldn't want to legislate against it either.
I wouldn't mind more education in regards to healthier eating habits and so forth.
Also, I wouldn't mind if they take off subsidies for it if there are any, but actually banning things, I think is a waste of time.
If people want to be fat, lazy and dumb, that is their prerogative, even if I agree that they are also a huge contributing factor to the rising cost of health care in this country.
I would suggest, that if you need to do something, I would rather concentrate on making healthier more nutritious food cheaper and more readily available.
In truth, what I would love to see, is healthy fast food. I mean, there are places around like Sweet Greens which is good, but I was thinking something that is able to create a complete meal in small serving sizes that would fit a 5 meal / 2K-2.5K calorie a day method. Sadly, I've tried to compute the cost of that, and I can't currently see a method of making it cheap enough to make it worth it.
So yeah! I don't want a ban on HFCS, I'd rather concentrate on making better foods cheaper and readily available.
Your looking at this problem from the end of the incentives, not trying to cure a symptom which we know won't help.
Excellent!
NeverEnuff
(147 posts)How about we just quit subsidizing it's production.
FSogol
(45,524 posts)paulk
(11,586 posts)I realize you're just trying to be clever and sarcastic and trying to make someone look foolish like you usually do, but there are good reasons to question why our food contains so much HFC.
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)and make it unprofitable to use in such high quantities. The problem will then go away on its own.
I have to read my labels very very carefully, because I cannot process this stuff. I do fine with regular sugar.
RC
(25,592 posts)And Cirrhosis of the liver, just like alcoholism does.
High fructose corn syrup is in practically everything, even stuff that one would think would have no sweeteners in it.
The foods and snacks targeted to kids are even worse.
I saw a root beer over the weekend, that had as it listed ingredients; "Water, High fructose corn syrup, Corn syrup, Sugar..." in that order.
You really have to read the ingredients on every package of food you buy.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It's a fructose-glucose mixture. So is sucrose (table sugar). They both have roughly the same ratio of fructose and glucose.
The effects you describe are fructose metabolism, at very high levels of fructose with no glucose.
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)It does not have the same ratio as table sugar.
HFCS is 55-45 and table sugar is 50-50
jeff47
(26,549 posts)5% difference isn't going to lead to massively different digestion.
The 95% fructose HFCS that they make it from would lead to massively different digestion. But we're talking about mixtures that are roughly 50-50. And no, it's not all 55-45. There's several different mixtures used.
libodem
(19,288 posts)That's what I'm talkin' about. It's poisonous. Not kidding.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)HFCS is not fructose.
HFCS is fructose and glucose. The mixture used in food is roughly 50-50. What makes it "high fructose" is corn syrup is 100% glucose.
Sucrose (table sugar) is fructose and glucose. The mixture is 50-50.
While it is true that fructose does not trigger the same "full" effect as glucose, both sugar and HFCS have glucose and will trigger that effect.
Ban HFCS tomorrow, and people will still be fat. Because instead of drinking mountains of HFCS, they'll drink mountains of sucrose. They'll still be eating too many calories for their level of activity.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)Javaman
(62,533 posts)but it also works as a preservative. That's why it's in virtually all prepackaged foods now.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)We added sugar to jams and jellies decades before HFCS was invented, because it acts as a preservative.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)[font size=3]
*snip*
High-fructose corn syrup and sucrose are both compounds that contain the simple sugars fructose and glucose, but there at least two clear differences between them. First, sucrose is composed of equal amounts of the two simple sugars -- it is 50 percent fructose and 50 percent glucose -- but the typical high-fructose corn syrup used in this study features a slightly imbalanced ratio, containing 55 percent fructose and 42 percent glucose. Larger sugar molecules called higher saccharides make up the remaining 3 percent of the sweetener. Second, as a result of the manufacturing process for high-fructose corn syrup, the fructose molecules in the sweetener are free and unbound, ready for absorption and utilization. In contrast, every fructose molecule in sucrose that comes from cane sugar or beet sugar is bound to a corresponding glucose molecule and must go through an extra metabolic step before it can be utilized.
This creates a fascinating puzzle. The rats in the Princeton study became obese by drinking high-fructose corn syrup, but not by drinking sucrose. The critical differences in appetite, metabolism and gene expression that underlie this phenomenon are yet to be discovered, but may relate to the fact that excess fructose is being metabolized to produce fat, while glucose is largely being processed for energy or stored as a carbohydrate, called glycogen, in the liver and muscles.
In the 40 years since the introduction of high-fructose corn syrup as a cost-effective sweetener in the American diet, rates of obesity in the U.S. have skyrocketed, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 1970, around 15 percent of the U.S. population met the definition for obesity; today, roughly one-third of the American adults are considered obese, the CDC reported. High-fructose corn syrup is found in a wide range of foods and beverages, including fruit juice, soda, cereal, bread, yogurt, ketchup and mayonnaise. On average, Americans consume 60 pounds of the sweetener per person every year.
MORE
- K&R
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The article quotes their analysis of their results.
Unfortunately, it doesn't match their results. For example, in the first experiment, the 24-hour HFCS rats gained less weight than sucrose rats. It was only the rats with access to HFCS for a limited time that gained more weight than the sucrose rats.
Yet their analysis claims the result shows HFCS caused weight gain....when the rats with the highest HFCS "exposure" gained the least weight.
In the 2nd experiment, they lacked a sucrose control. So there's no way to determine if the results were due to HFCS, or due to sugar in general.
Not saying HFCS is perfect food. But this particular paper is Andrew Wakefield quality. I hope someone repeats their experiments with proper controls.
Scout
(8,624 posts)i did a little analysis on regular 20 oz Mountain Dew with HFCS and the same size bottle of Mountain Dew Throwback made with sugar.
the HFCS version:
Carbonated Water, HFCS, concentrated orange juice, citric acid, natural flavor, sodium benzoate, caffeine, sodium citrate, erythorbic acid, gum arabic, calcium disodium EDTA, brominated vegetable oil, yellow 5
290 calories
77g total carbs
77g sugars
the Throwback version:
Carbonated Water, sugar, orange juice concentrate, citric acid, natural flavor, sodium benzoate, caffeine, sodium citrate, gum arabic, erythorbic acid, calcium disodium EDTA, brominated vegetable oil, yellow 5
280 colories
73g total carbs
73g sugars
the only difference in the ingredients lists was the HFCS and Sugar. the other ingredients were the same, except two had the order reversed.
more calories and more carbs/sugars in the HFCS version than the throwback. and the throwback sure tastes better.
i need to either stop drinking pop entirely, or at least drink the real sugar ones ... they don't make me want more sugar as do the HFCS ones.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)Real sugar tastes better, and I do weigh 11 pounds less since I switched to the real-sugar version.
(I can't attribute all of it to cutting out HFCS though, since my diet has been moving to more veggies/less fat generally).
I'm not overweight and I exercise quite a bit, so I think a bit of sugar here and there shouldn't be too much of a problem.
It helps give me energy to exercise.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Plus the difference in their quantities. 77g in "new" and 73g in "throwback". It's not HFCS vs sugar. It's less sugar vs. more HFCS.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The difference in calories is only 10. I seriously doubt if someone could taste the difference in a 20 oz drink. HFCS does taste different than sucrose. They are close, but still different enough that most people are going to notice at least a subtle difference.
Scout
(8,624 posts)and since both the HFCS and the Sugar appear second in the ingredients lists, and the 3rd ingredient is the same on both, i'm thinking that the amounts of HFCS and Sugar put into the stuff are pretty much the same. yet you end up with more grams of sugar and more calories in the bottle with the HFCS.
so i'm think that 2 TBL (for example) of HFCS have more calories and more carbs than do 2 TBL of Sugar.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)HFCS came into use in the late '80s. The "obesity epidemic" didn't show up until 2000.
What happened in 2000? That's when they started shutting down the raves.
Young people in most parts of the country no longer have any place to dance.
Dancing is very good exercise.
BOG PERSON
(2,916 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Yes, there are completely valid studies which have suggested the opposite, but those studies were found not to apply to human consumption of HFCS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_high-fructose_corn_syrup
If you're looking for the reason why Americans are fat and have a diabetes epidemic, all you need to do is look at historical average calorie consumption vs activity levels. Calories skyrocket, activity goes down, people get fat. It isn't rocket surgery. People who think they can just switch from HFCS to sucrose and all their weight and health issues will be solved are in for a very rude awakening.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)Best decision I ever made was getting off HFCS.
librechik
(30,676 posts)I think we might have some control over that--we got rid of transfats in processed foods pretty fast!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)or alcohol, banned, or salt or . . . .
Maybe we should just stop subsidizing it, limit food stamps to covering non-processed foods, put more money in to building bikelanes/sidewalks and making it easier to *not* drive everywhere, and let people make their own decisions.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)People controlling their own portions, getting up off their asses, eating a few smaller meals every day.
Less time spent staring at their various screens. Not buying the kid every dang gadget that requires them to sit there.
I think a big part of this obesity problem has to do with personal choices.
They taxed the fuck out of cigarettes, people quit in droves. Why not do the same for soda and Twinkies.