No one. Straw person.

Quit hiding behind these women when you are really advocating collective punishment of some kind.

And there are still white and other non-Muslim rapists. Why not keep all men under the same scrutiny then. And quit hiding behind their culture - no culture has managed to do away with sexual assault.

that they are supposed to tolerate being second-class citizens in their own country.

I'm not hiding behind squat.

And I never said any culture is free of sexual assault, but some are more progressive on the issue than others.

Witness the Norwegian woman who was raped in "liberal" UAE, and was arrested for reporting it!!

speaking in dog-whistles?

Apart from your unfortunate choice of that word, of course it's not fair to blame asylum seekers in general. But to not acknowledge the cultural problem - in particular the very shitty attitudes toward women - is to do nothing to address the problem. Which will do nothing to help those asylum seekers and do everything to bring on an unfortunate backlash. I think Norway has the right idea in providing education people on the cultural expectations to treat women respectfully.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html

Simply hates women as a class.

Put them on ignore.

Ask the OP about any dog whistles.

What culture has done away with sexual assault? Non-Muslim men commit then every day all across the world.

As a woman, I consider that to be a preferable culture.

I would not assume each and every Saudi man thinks sexual assault is OK. Even there. And Syria is not as extreme as Saudi Arabia.

and "Their culture is no worse than any other"

A culture can be deeply sexist. How individuals behave or react in that context can vary. I know for a fact that in many Middle Eastern countries a woman can't dream of walking anywhere by herself. Or show any hair or skin above the wrist without physical repercussion.

THAT in my opinion is a MUCH MUCH worse CULTURE than our culture. And our culture is far from perfect. Of course if it's not something that affects you personally then perhaps it's easy to be dismissive.

have to be made and explained though because some countries and individuals are worst than others. However as a whole the entire culture and religion runs on the oppression of women and representatives in the USA aren't saying enough or modernizing the religion enough. They're afraid too.

Stop bringing up that stupid shit.

The problem, where cultures clash, is that Islamic law SANCTIONS misogyny and rape and slavery of infidels... a/k/a western non-Muslim women.

Yes Islam is regressive, archaic and its laws are in direct opposition to western secular law. Islamic law is mysogynistic, homophobic and tribal. That's why these jerks felt it okay to coordinate an attack on western infidels. Their religious upbringing, which in their eyes is the only law, sanctions their actions.

We aren't going to eliminate rape in western cultures... But we certainly do hold the criminals accountable more and more with each generation. We're moving in the right direction. In one Muslim country mentioned here in another post, a woman who brought rape charges against a man was imprisoned.

Is it too much to ask that you acknowledge that?

There is a culture clash. Period.

I have no respect for Islam whatsoever. None for ANY fundie BS regardless of country of origin.

The criminals involved should get the full protection of the law and the victims get swift and full justice which they deserve. Which may mean that Germany needs to stiffen sentences for sexual assaults X 10 to curb this nonsense. They should impose curfews on these young men until they have the opportunity to understand their host country's laws. Women in no way shape or form should have to give up their hard fought freedoms for the sake of "tolerence" towards Muslims. That's a shit attitude.

Just stop hiding behind that nonsense that Islam is a friend to women, LGBTQ, infidels, poets, cartoonists, atheists, apostates and whoever else they hate. They do not raise children to tolerate and respect diversity.

hell with the poor women.

You should be deeply ashamed to post that sort of sexist shit on a progressive site.

Of course, that would require a rational take on this issue, so I'll not hold my breath...

Obviously.

I was replying to your (revoltingly misogynist) usage.

Equally obviously.

Or do you need this graphic?

Good luck, though.

Nor could all of them have been part of a gang. That's why the Cologne incident raises broader questions. Of the many in the crowd, at least a hundred or a hundred fifty must have been participants. But what of all the rest who stood around and didn't intervene? That raises a much more serious issue.

Additionally, the attempt of the police to hide what happened is a big issue in Germany and should be.

It happened at a swimming pool......

Cologne attacks: Migrant men banned from German swimming pool


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35326090

A German town has banned male asylum seekers from a public swimming pool after women complained of harassment.

A government official in Bornheim said men from a nearby asylum shelter would be barred until they "got the message" that such behaviour was not acceptable.

It follows outrage over hundreds of sexual assaults in nearby Cologne and other German cities on New Year's Eve.

Those attacks, by men of mainly Arab and North African origin, raised tensions over the influx of migrants.

More than 1.1 million people claimed asylum in Germany in 2015.

The head of the social affairs department in Bornheim - about 20km (12 miles) south of Cologne - said the move to ban migrant men followed increasing number of reports of inappropriate behaviour from female swimmers and staff members.

"There have been complaints of sexual harassment and chatting-up going on in this swimming pool... by groups of young men, and this has prompted some women to leave," Markus Schnapka told Reuters.

He said none of the complaints involved a crime being committed, but that social workers in the town would help to ensure the asylum seekers changed their behaviour.

It is unclear how this rule will be enforced, although Germany is set to introduce new ID cards for migrants in February.
Support falling

Correspondents say the pool ban is the latest sign of increased tensions following the Cologne attacks.

On Thursday, the authorities in another town in west Germany, Rheinberg, cancelled a carnival parade planned for February over security concerns.

Rheinberg's public security chief, Jonny Strey, told German media that events in Cologne had influenced the decision and that officials were worried about from men from migrant backgrounds misbehaving.

Rheinberg Mayor Frank Tatzel later denied this, according to Reuters.

Cologne authorities expressed concern about the city's own carnival in February following the NYE attacks, promising to step up security and public awareness.

An opinion poll on Friday showed public anxiety increasing over the number of refugees and migrants arriving in Germany.

In the research, published by broadcaster ZDF (in German), 66% of the 1,203 respondents said Germany could not handle the arrivals, up from 46% in December.

Support for Chancellor Angela Merkel, under pressure over her policies to welcome refugees, also fell - with 39% of people agreeing the chancellor was doing a "good job" in this area, down from 47% in December.

But, you know, saying there's a problem is: Islamophobic, racist, bigoted, ad infinitum.

For some reason, rampant misogyny and sexual violence is A-OK!!!!

No one is misogynistic. You are advocating collective punishment, ashamed of it and using the female victims to sidestep.

You are claiming one set of men is culturally more inclined to commit sexual assaults than other men. Which is unproven. And still leaves the men of that group who never did such a thing and should therefore not suffer any type of penalty, as they are innocent. You are advocating that they be restricted due to the actions of the co-asylum seekers because they share a group identity.

So the innocent Syrian men cannot go to the swimming pool, so to speak. Potentially guilty white men can.

Just stop. This board is for liberals. We do not judge people collectively.

It is well documented about the culture of sexual assault in the ME and North Africa. You are choosing to be blind to the evidence.

I am a liberal. I believe that women deserve to be treated as free and equal citizens. That is eroding right now in Europe.

It is a fact that they treat women worse than livestock. They are showing their true colors in their host countries and causing great problems for the women and their families in those countries. This is cultural, they are conditioned to disrespect western women and that is on them. It is not racism.

than men of other cultures. It just isn't polite to say so, that's all.

i am so tired of this behavior being excused in the name of racism.

anyone, and who came to Germany seeking safety for themselves and their families. Four refugees have drafted an open letter to Mrs Merkel in which they express their support of women’s rights and their shock at the assaults. They are handing the letter round to collect signatures. Many refugees and German Muslims fear being tarred with the same brush as the offenders."

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21688418-ultimate-victim-sexual-assaults-migrants-could-be-angela-merkels-liberal-refugee

As liberals we should admit when bad things occur and punish criminals without stereotyping and punishing entire groups of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong. Collective punishment is not our thing. It's more of a right wing thing.

The vulnerable should be protected - women, poor, minorities, refugees, immigrants, etc. None of them should be told that they are being 'hysterical or unfair' for wanting protection.

It's the law of unintended consequence, yes, it was a good thing to let refugees into Europe but by allowing in so many aggressive young men they have created a backlash that will make it difficult to help those who are unable to defend themselves.

Ship the young adult single males back to wherever they came from.

Single young men though are probably the most desirable workers, desperate, unencumbered and willing to work cheap. Families will tax the welfare system.

I don't know what the right answer is. Obviously letting anyone in who wants to has been a disaster. Shipping them back home could be problematic too. Many of them have destroyed their passports or were traveling under false papers. Also what if their home countries don't want them back? There are parallels to the Mariel boatlift here as I've said before.

women to be anywhere equal to men.

That means even the best of them are likely to be chauvinists, while the worst.......well, we've already seen what the worst will do.

That is inherently UNFAIR and DANGEROUS to the women who already lived in these host countries.

I do not wonder why you feel the way you do.

(Trump, Le Pen, Orban, etc.) give for not being willing to accept them.

Proposed in late 2015, the bill would allow Danish authorities to strip migrants of cash and any individual items whose combined value exceeds 10,000 kroner (1,340 euros, $1,450). Lawmakers have raised the limit to $1,450 since its last consideration in mid-December, bringing it in line with Denmark’s existing law, which requires Danes to sell all of their valuables in order to apply for unemployment benefits.

However, the refugee-stripping bill has been amended to exempt engagement rings, family portraits, and badges of honor.

“The government, the Social Democrats, the Danish People’s Party, the Liberal Alliance and the Conservative People’s Party have agreed to amend the bill concerning valuables,” a government statement said, according to The Local Denmark news portal.

If passed into law, local Danish authorities will have the right to confiscate articles such as watches, mobile phones, computers and other gadgets if their value tips the total worth of cash and items over 10,000 kroner, the agreement says.

snip

The bill in question is just the latest in a string of a dozen new rules Denmark has considered as the country strives to reduce the number of refugees coming to the country.

Other measures have included shortening residence permits, delaying family reunifications, and the reduction of economic benefits for asylum seekers.

They said the opposite.

White people are also "likely to be chauvinists."

I cannot believe I am seeing a liberal try to justify some type of collective grouping. "Even the best of them are likely to be chauvinists." My god. Just wow.

In the name of defending patriarchy.

Just wow.

Among the indirect victims of Cologne are the many migrants who would not dream of assaulting anyone, and who came to Germany seeking safety for themselves and their families. Four refugees have drafted an open letter to Mrs Merkel in which they express their support of women’s rights and their shock at the assaults. They are handing the letter round to collect signatures. Many refugees and German Muslims fear being tarred with the same brush as the offenders."

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21688418-ultimate-victim-sexual-assaults-migrants-could-be-angela-merkels-liberal-refugee

opposite.

Yet, they are claiming refugee status. Just because someone says they are a refugee doesn't mean they should get to hide under that mantle. And, I would say any non-disabled man of fighting age does not qualify as being considered a refugee.

However these men are not typical of refugees in general. I have no problem with enforcing the law against those who violate it. Indeed enforcing the law against those who attack the vulnerable is the essence of being a liberal. And 'the vulnerable' includes the majority of refugees.

But I am not, repeat NOT going to extend the same welcome to men. Men are the reason for the conflict, men are the ones who are in power there, and men have instituted a repressive, bigoted culture that they are bringing with them to their host countries, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

We have our own misogyny problems here, and we have fought long and hard for the progress we have made, I'm not willing to give ground to men who are still under the medieval notion that women are chattel.

And, unfortunately, that seems to apply even to the male youths of 15 and up as well, as they have been many of the perps in these crimes.

I applaud Obama for only allowing men with wives and families into this country. At least being in this country will give the woman a chance to see that other women are treated as equal citizens and maybe that will make a positive impact that life can be better and roles can be renegotiated.

Rwandan, Cambodian, Bosnian, etc in the past? I do not share your belief that men cannot be refugees.

I can read up on those conflicts and get back to you, but it might be awhile.

One thing I know I've never heard, and that is that gangs of men from those groups engaged in mass sexual assaults.

then.

that pointed the finger at cultures that are heavily machismo-oriented that are the problem, and said both Islamic and many Latin American cultures suffer from it. (As does European/American culture as well, but not to such a degree).

I can't speak to your whole list, but I did travel through Cambodia and Vietnam about 5 years ago, and the people in those countries, both men and women, were the most gentle, soft-spoken people I have ever encountered. I never once feared for my personal safety in those countries, even without being able to speak the languages or anything. They were, without exception, always kind, polite, and gentle (at least to me).

I know what you mean but we have to be sure not to go as far as the "We need a wall because Mexicans (or Muslims) are rapists" kind of mentality we see in the republican party these days.

is not acceptable. And it's clear from the tide of problems engulfing Europe right now that sex crimes are going to happen with this population, in greater numbers than was ever expected.

FWIW: I live in Arizona with a very large Latin American population, and only once have I had an Latin immigrant (I'm assuming he was an immigrant, as he couldn't speak English) get handsy with me. (And, I'm not a toad, although I do have pretty low self-esteem).

prosecute those who break it. More policing will be required in areas with a lot of refugees because right wing vigilantes are burning down refugee centers and attacking random foreigners and to monitor potential criminals among the refugees.

I don't see any alternative for liberals. Mass deportation is not going to happen. Selective deportation will and already is for those who are not genuine refugees which will probably include many of these committing crimes.

Your solution to wait until they have already attacked someone is not good enough for me.

They still sell their daughters. About a year ago there was a story about one woman, who was FORCED into an abusive marriage, had 4 children before she was 23 and who finally had enough courage to leave her abusive husband, was shot and killed by said abusive husband. Dude walked into her workplace and applied his Second Amendment solution to "his" problem. Now the children's mother is dead and he's in prison. But the important thing is that he established dominance and he proved what a man he is. That was, by the way, NOT an isolated incident. The ISSUE here is cultures that regard women as equal to their cattle. I can see some here agree.

Thousands of refugees fled Cuba and at first Americans, Republicans in particular welcomed the flow of "Freedom Lovers" seeking oppression. No doubt too that the first wave of refugees were real asylum seekers. Then the Cuban authorities, seeing that these people were welcomed without actually verifying that they were what they said they were, got the idea of emptying their prisons and putting common thugs and hoodlums on the boats.

The result was a crime wave in Miami and other areas where Cubans abound. When this country tried to extradite them back to Cuba of course, Castro laughed in our faces.

It seems to me that Europe, by welcoming uncritically large numbers of young men from cultures who whose values are at odds with their own has made a big mistake. How many of them were already criminals in their own countries? We don't know, but when the criteria for getting into Europe is pretty much being the strongest and most aggressive in pushing your way to the front of the line, no one should be surprised when they end up with a bunch of hyper aggressive bullies on their hands.

is seen with the perception of previous experiences.

A guy that came in on the boatlift murdered in cold blood two women convenience store employees. When I saw those people rushing and crashing the gates in Hungary, those murders came to mind very quickly. They were mostly young men and if they were not going to follow the rules of entry, they sure enough would not after settled. I foresee many problems ahead.

I guess those "WELCOME REFUGEES" signs are no longer popular.

They are the ones causing the problems.

all the rest young thugs. I would not want them in my country. And BTW, the United States has always been selective about who enters this country. People who walked with a limp were sent back among other things.

ALL YOUNG MEN who should be fighting for their country.

in defining who is a refugee. You may indeed feel that young men are all as wild and criminal as the ones who have committed crimes in Germany recently but not everyone agrees.

http://www.geneva-academy.ch/RULAC/international_refugee_law.php

The scandal involving sexual assaults by migrants in Europe expanded this week to Sweden. Police covered up reports of assaults on teenage girls at a large music festival in the capital city of Stockholm, out of fear that the perpetrators’ identity as migrants would derail government race-relation goals.

The We Are Stockholm festival lasts five days and draws 170,000 attendees. In numerous incidents at the festival, large gangs of men surrounded young girls and attacked them with no regard for the criminal consequences of their actions.

Unfortunately, the police’s failure to report these attacks amplifies the concerns of many Swedes that government officials cannot be trusted to speak honestly about the facts surrounding the increasing number of migrants in their country because of excessive concerns over political correctness.

The thugs and hoodlums who perpetuated these outrages should be identified, prosecuted, then deported--after they've been fixed and neutered.

Muslim religipus activists in their home countries have been whining for years that we don't respect their traditions and decorum.

Well, these guys need to have it driven home that they need to learn to respect ours. If they can't, they should be ejected.