Is that really about "white men battling adversity"?

You're fucking up the narrative.

That wasn't about slavery and wasn't about white people.

The OP says: "It's time for Hollywood to stop defining great drama as white men battling adversity"

I would argue that Slumdog Millionaire does not fit that definition.

Was its win a statistical standard, thus denying the premise of the OP? Or simply anecdotal evidence.

White Men battling adversity: Ordinary People, Chariots of Fire, Amadeus, Out of Africa, Platoon, Rain Man, Dances with Wolves, Unforgiven, Schindler's List, Forrest Gump, Braveheart, The English Patient, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love, American Beauty, Gladiator, A Beautiful Mind, Lord of the Rings, The Departed, No Country for Old Men, The Hurt Locker, The King's Speech, The Artist, Argo, Birdman, and, The Big Short

Any other plot line: Gandhi, Terms of Endearment, The Last Emperor, Driving Miss Daisy, Silence of the Lambs, Chicago, Crash, Slumdog Millionaire, 12 Years a Slave

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture#1980s

That's 26 to 9 (?)

Marvel movies.
Except Harvey doesn't have anything to do with Marvel movies and the tentpoles that feature all those explosions.
Oh you don't get movies with REAL Americans huh?
What a crock of shit.
Harvey is the man who produced The Butler, Fruitvale Station, and Hands of Stone (The Roberto Duran story).
So don't give us that conservative rant bullshit about "Hollywood" and don't single out a Jew with your ignorant bs rant either.

Read it again.

Seriously -

I don't need to be at one of those offshoot / spin off sites.

I'll say whatever I need to say right here.

Shame on him/her.

the topic of the OP being 'Oscars too white' does prompt mention that Harvey was executive producer of both Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom and Lee Daniel's The Butler in the same freaking year. It's not like I think the guy is a saint or anything but if more producers were like him we would not be having this conversation right now at all.

nt

But I have Jewish ancestry - I actually converted from my upbringing to Unitarianism because I could no longer tolerate the idea that JC wasn't born of human beings who were Jewish, was a rabbi, and died a Rabbi - and didn't come back to life.

I called out Harvey - because he WANTS to be a Mogul. Even Redford has called him out for wanting to be that. He is a staunch Hillary Clinton supporter and hob nobber with the Democratic Party Elites. He has the power here. He made Kevin Smith a star writer/director - he can do it for others now.

Calling me an Anti Semite - shame on you. Shame, shame, shame on you.

What's next? I don't like black people? Because I think Jada and Will are full of shit? They are being spoiled petulant brats?

I triple, double, dog dare you to accuse of me of any those. You go right ahead.

And if I'm being a 'rhymes' with hunt - it's because I give as good as I get. You came at me first. Why don't you mosey on over to one of those threads with screen shots and pot shots at off shoot sites and back biting. That's where those accusations get made.



Shame on you - and have a nice day.

Hollywood is NOT showing America.


The only time the show black women is when we are hookers and slaves and maids and drug addicts.

Halle Berry, Lupita, and Octavia.

I mean - if that's what you think black women in America are and good for - then so be it.

You accuse me -

I accuse you. Except you have clearly stated that's what AMERICA (black women in this country are) - by your statements that Hollywood IS showing America.

Tit for tat. You think we are all hookers, crack addicts, and only good for cleaning up after white folks.

and cast black women in lead roles, and then you bitch about the movies they make. Hilarious.

And Will Smith didn't give a particularly convincing performance.

And I didn't believe him. I wasn't absorbed by the movie the way I was Revenant or Spotlight.

Which is not a movie about a white person.

I don't think there was a single white person in that movie.

For every Best Picture without a White male protagonist, I will name five that had one. We'll see who runs out first. So far, you've named "12 Years a Slave" and "Slumdog Millionaire", so I owe you ten:

Dances with Wolves
Ordinary People
Birdman
Shakespeare in Love
Forrest Gump
Braveheart
Unforgiven
Titanic
American Beauty
Gladiator

There's my ten. Do you have any others?

I'll give him In The Heat of the Night - 1967 - but I would have picked Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.

I certainly wouldn't argue with that.

I am stating that the Best Picture award has been given to films that are not about white people twice in the last eight years.

Anecdotal evidence predicated on invalid sampling sizes, thus neither weakening nor strengthening the premise if the OP is irrelevant, yes?

It's not based on my own personal experiences - it is an actual fact.

If the premise is:

"It's time for Hollywood to stop defining great drama as white men battling adversity"

And two of the last eight films that have been defined by Hollywood as "great drama" (in that they were selected as the Best Picture by the Academy Awards) were not films about white men battling adversity, then the premise is somewhat flawed.

Even taking just the nominations for this year, most of them are not about white men battling adversity.

Brooklyn is about a woman and her relationships. The Big Short is about the banking scandal. Bridge of Spies is about the US-USSR conflict. Mad Max: Fury Road is about a woman in a dystopian future. Spotlight is about the Catholic priest scandal. Room is about a woman and her child. I would say probably The Revenant and The Martian would be the only ones that are about white men battling adversity.

That's two out of the eight.

these are about white women and men battling adversity.

That's diversity for you.

I did see that film and I wouldn't characterize it that way.

White men battling adversity in the form of the Catholic church. What is not adverse about that?

Her character was female and was integral to the battle.

Almost every movie is about some kind of conflict for the most part.

Straight Outta Compton is about a group of men overcoming adversity.

In any case, I have given this a lot of thought - and I do appreciate you challenging me to do so. I agree that there is a fundamental problem with the fact that most of the people in positions of power in Hollywood are white (and also generally male) and so you mostly get movies being made that reflect their tastes.

I personally feel like it is ridiculous that every nominee for every acting category is almost always skinny. They certainly don't reflect society at large in terms of body type. But that is a separate issue.

In terms of the Academy Awards, I think they should get more diversity amongst whoever gets to vote on these things. However, I think if the best actors happen to all be white people, that they shouldn't be penalized for that. That is to say that one should not include a non-white person just to do so. It's just an awards show for a bunch of spoiled rich people.

Is that the reason they get all the awards ?

What do you think the reason is?

Even though it is not the story of a white person overcoming adversity.

But the film was released in 2008.

Seems like there are a lot of other much more important problems to deal with - including with respect to diversity - than Hollywood awards shows.

yet feel compelled to reply.

fascinating.

It brings up topics that I wouldn't normally think about and allows me to exchange thoughts with people who have different perspectives.

I'm certainly open to learning more on the subject, but my first reaction is what I shared.

you seem to have an agenda.

My only agenda is to present my opinion and try to back it up with evidence.

You posted an OP - I thought about it and gave my response. When other points are brought up, I try to think about them and respond as well.

Isn't that what a discussion forum is all about?

Fox News Viewers

If Creed deserved a nomination than so would Southpaw. Neither were anything I'd consider the best of the year. They both just had lead actors transform their bodies.

"Straight Outta Compton" is simply not deemed Oscar-material. You are asking an awful lot for 70-year olds to watch that movie and think it's the best of the year.

The Academy has always had a strange litmus test of what is considered a movie worthy of that award. And I rarely agree with them. The movie that I feel is the best of the year practically never wins that award. The directors I like also practically never win (and they are white). It's just the way it is. In the end, it's just an award show...one that I feel is too long and rarely do I hold enough interest to watch the whole thing. And ultimately, how many young people even watch the Oscars?

Also hard for people to feel bad for celebrities. These people make millions of dollars a year. Jennifer Lawrence started complaining about pay inequality for women in Hollywood last year....a year where she made $52 million. Do you feel bad for her?

It's a biopic that's actually about something, told from the perspective of the people who lived it. Not a corporate boardroom biopic where it only focuses on the aspect of the person's life where they kicked drugs and found Jesus (Ray, Walk The Line). Straight Outta Compton is how biopics should be made.

that people are still blind when racism happens in front of their own eyes still amazes me even though it shouldn't.

I wish I didn't care enough to post a response in the thread, too...

You repeat yourself a lot.

I say black ppl stop going to the movies and stop supporting these films with no diversity

I can understand the Will Smith snub - his accent was way off

Idris did an amazing job in Beat of No Nation

*Ahem*, Birdman.

With the process for contending for an Oscar being so formalized and well-understood, it's pretty obvious when a film is Oscar bait. I used to be much more of a film junkie, and thus used to watch most of those films. Not any more,though. For better or worse, I've kinda relegated film to the "mindless entertainment" category in my mind, and my viewing patterns have changed accordingly.

I once asked myself which is the better painting Leonardo Da Vinci's "Mona Lisa"


or Delacroix's "Liberty Leading the People"


I always liked "Liberty Leading the People" much more from the second I saw it.

Is it really a "better" "awarding winning" painting over "Mona Lisa"? Art history and expert opinion suggests no handily. But I don't give a shit what they think. I just always like Delacroix's painting much, much better.

Acting, music, film, etc this is also just art. Trying to give it an award seems so stupid to me. Trying to affix some sort of arbitrary rating or value over another great piece of art seems futile. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Appreciate it for whatever it does for you and move on.

I don't rate the Oscars or Grammys much higher than the National Enquirer. Maybe Reader's Digest mass appeal level of mentality. Pretty silly.

society of rich people.

Does anyone not realize this?

Now granted, I though he was great in "Ali", but he lost to Denzel that year. I think he got screwed because Denzel playing a dirty cop wasn't real interesting or groundbreaking to me. Smith playing a real person and an icon like Ali was a much bigger job. But anyway....

So now, every three or four years, right before January, Will shows up in a VERY SERIOUS MOVIE acting VERY CONCERNED and occasionally TEARING UP and GETTING ANGRY in the trailer, so you know this is an Academy winning performance.

POINTING FINGER!!!! "TELL DA TRUTH!!!!"......

Where's the popcorn bucket so I can wretch. I'm about overdrawn on maudlin histrionics, Will.

Sorry, I've seen all the films except Concussion, and I'm pretty confident Will didn't deserve best actor those years. Nothing about him is organic, the movies are generally poorly written and overwrought with melodramatics giving him tons of scenery to chew on. It's transparent as can be. That may have worked 20 years ago, the formula has changed.

Got in for his performance in "Pursuit of Happyness".

2001. Will and others qualify for membership prior to nomination, one does not have to be nominated to become a member of the Academy.

No more mere stage stylin' propism.

The comic character is of European descent, but grew up to a top martial arts expert in Asia. From one perspective it would make sense to change the origin to that of someone of Asian descent, but then the concern is typecasting (first major cast actor of Asian descent is a martial arts expert).

Nick Fury or Iron Fist is a whole lot easier to pull off than Johnny Storm (Human Torch). Marvel should strongly consider an Asian actress for Captain Marvel for example.

Marvel has made great progress with War Machine, Falcon, Black Panther, and Luke Cage (which is a great casting move - I really like the actor in the Netflix series).

And a Ms. Marvel series or feature should be in the works.

I'll admit, I was annoyed with the casting in Fantastic Four - though the rest of the movie was a far bigger problem. There was simply no reason to cast as they did. I've been reading FF since the 80's and it's that family dynamic and characters that I wanted to see. Changing brother/sister to what they did didn't add anything new to the concept and didnt' feel like anything more than trying to be diverse for the sake of the label.

I would have been far more interested if they kept them as brother and sister and cast black actors for both of them.

But really, the movie was a trainwreck from day one.

With Iron Fist, there's been strong discussions from interesting points of view on it, particularly in the exploration of the Great White Hope trope owing to the 70's origins on it and the attempt at that time by Marvel to capitalize on the popularity of martial arts films, similar to their attempt at blacksploitation films with Luke Cage and other comics. Again, it's an area where I want to see Danny Rand given a proper film treatment with the story that I've known (and seen readjusted) for decades.

Is that wrong?

Granted, I watch a ton of Asian films so I'm not exactly hurting for seeing strong Asian actors on screen in films that aren't martial arts films. I kinda tired of that genre well over a decade ago.

A woman. Asian decent preferred. Leave her name as Dani Rand.

Wouldn't change the core of the story.

Robert Claiborne in his history of the evolution of the English language points out that while England had few notable painters or composers, it had an overwhelming share of the worlds great authors. If you go to a book store in Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, or Switzerland, there will be a out-sized share of the books that will be in English or that will be translations of English (and American) authors. The functioning language of Hollywood is English. There are a trove of histories in English for script ideas. A large majority of script ideas will involve English or other European protagonists as that is where the written history comes from. There is far more source material about the battle of Agincourt than there is about any battle (which may have involved larger armies) in the Congo during the same time frame. Are there any maritime disasters with black protagonists to match Titantic?