my wife has two... either will get you into some countries... I don't know all the rules though...

You need the book version to go overseas.

if anybody needs to know.

since I'm considered Dutch under Netherlands law and American under American law. A Dutch passport allows me to travel countries not very friendly to the United States.

I would like to.

They even refrain from stamping them to make reentry to US easier.

He claimed he lost the first one, and requested a replacement.

He reported he lost his passport on March 8, 2004. He applied and received the second one two weeks later on March 26, 2004. His lawyer had the 2nd passport in his office and he had forgotten to turn it in. Try facts next time.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

Perhaps, if you understand how time works, you might want to note when I posted vs. when you posted your accusation that I am "spreading BS"...

You are absolutely right and probably deserve a gold star... I'm sorry that I posted the "facts" as they were being reported earlier in the day by ABC News — I was not intentionally spreading misinformation.

But thankfully, we have incredible fact-checking hindsight police like yourself on DU.

Others not so much. Not everything that happens in life is because somebody wants to do the most evil thing. I doubt you share that view.

Of the sort you made just upthread?

You really should apologize for averring that the poster slapped that up for the purposes of misrepresentation, to be "spreading BS"--the details of Zimmerman's passport follies were not made clear in the early reports. Telling someone they made a mistake is one thing, saying they are "spreading BS" is...well...an accusation. That you made....

I have been following the case I have never saw such information.

The written stories we see on the net are more precise as to the timeline for acquiring the passport, but yesterday I heard that the valid passport was put in a safe deposit box by either him or his wife and the "bad" passport was turned in to the court.

There are also reports that he and his wife talked in CODE about the passport on the telephone.

Here is an ABC report that claims he got the passport two weeks AFTER the shooting--we know now that this is inaccurate:

But all these other posters in countless threads that have made wild statements of "fact", with no supporting links whatsoever, you are silent there. I guess it just depends on the type of "facts" being posted. People hate Zimmerman. I get that. And some people make up things to support that hate. If you don't see that then you see nothing. Nothing wrong with opinions, even if they are unsupported by facts, but when someone asserts facts that have no basis, there I protest.

I especially dislike the tendency to throw out rights when you don't like the defendant. In the days when this first came to light there were some practically calling on him to be lynched. Did you come down on those people?

P.s. Again in your post you are bolding prosecutor's statements as if they are fact. Nothing about what the defense said. I guess one side makes a better story.

You accused me of acting in bad faith in a post that you actually entitled "I wait for the facts to come out before I make accusations."

So, it would be pointless to try to convince you of anything when your own position is an unresolved self-contradiction.

the question is: just in case of what?

Not everything is a conspiracy. Maybe he found the first one and saw no reason to throw it away. They had different expiration dates. I have two myself for reasons I posted down this thread. So what.

me that once they started processing the application that even if I found the original before the new one got to me it wouldn't be valid and the numbers would register as void at any border/airplane gate.

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

That always bugged me--I never liked giving up my "documenti" but they needed it to show the cops when they came around checking on who's who in the zoo.

Well, they don't do it anymore--EVERYTHINGs electronic now--they scan your passport and give it back!

Oh, and on edit--Zimmerman handed in the "voided" passport (the one he said he lost) and kept the "good" one.

"Spreading BS" implies a willful desire to impart false information--your use of that term maligns and impugns the motives of the poster.

Not terribly civil, that.

But I'm sure you knew that. Some posters are willing to throw criminal justice out the window just because they don't like the defendant. The poster is one of them.

And didn't your mom ever say "Just because Billy jumps off the bridge, does that mean YOU have to do it, too?"

Really--the high road--the view is grand from it.

ok. Maybe you should tell the poster I was replying to that it might be nicer not to try and see evil and conspiracy in everything someone does.

Its possible to have been born in England, for example, and not renounced that citizenship while later moving to the U.S., establishing a life/family/business here, and becoming a U.S. citizen (I think; our neighbor did this.)
I don't know the process or rules.

AHA, its been answered above: Dual Citizenship.

The second is current although I think it was supposedly not stamped.

about passport AND finances, and Judge is PISSED, as he should be. z's in TROUBLE!

The lawyer had it in his office and forgot to turn it in. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/01/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

It relates a conversation between Zimmerman and his wife about the passport and she says she has "one for you in a safety deposit box," which, to me, reads Mrs. Zimmerman had possession of the second passport. Here is a snippet from the article I reference:

"The motion also said Zimmerman obtained a passport in 2002. That passport, which expired in May 2012, was the one he turned in to the court during his April bond hearing and his lawyer told the judge it was his only passport.

But prosecutors said that in 2004 Zimmerman reported that passport had been lost or stolen and obtained a new one, which is valid until 2014. Zimmerman also discussed the passport with his wife in one of the recorded jailhouse calls, the motion said.

He told his wife he thought the passport was in a bag and she replied, "I have one for you in a safety deposit box," the prosecutors said. "OK, you hold onto that," Zimmerman allegedly told her."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/01/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE85016H20120601

Whatever the exact details are about getting the passport his lawyer ended up with the 2nd one. He forgot to turn it into the court and the judge is not holding that fact against Zimmerman.

In the first one, the lawyer is taking the hit.

In the second one, it is plain that the wife and the accused are colluding to conceal the passport.

The thing that is the same is that Zimmerman got busted for having a second passport.

Here's a very unambiguous headline: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/01/prosecutors-say-zimmerman-hid-second-passport-lied-about-money.html

There are two different issues here. First of all you post a headline "Prosecutors Say Zimmerman Hid Second Passport, Lied About Money" and you say that is "very unambiguous". What would you expect them to say??? They are prosecutors. Prosecutors will throw anything out there to muddy the waters against a defendant. I deal with their crap everyday. Just because they assert something does not make it true.

Zimmerman and his wife may have tried to hide the second passport but the point is the defense attorney ended up with it. And he forget to turn it in. Believe me or not I don't care but this type of thing happens every day on both sides. People do forget to give the court everything that is requested or something comes in later and it gets put away somewhere and is forgotten at the moment. Shit happens in life. Not everything in life is a conspiracy.

I remember all sorts of posters who were claiming Zimmerman was in Peru or someplace else before he was indicted. Then they were predicting he would not turn himself in. Then after this latest episode they were predicting he would flee. I wonder where they all are now?

This is a discussion board. People have OPINIONS--so what? Surely you can't be saying that only your view is valid? Why is it impossible to wonder if a guy accused of murder might flee? I'm betting the prosecution is checking to see, now, if George DOES have a Peruvian passport--I sure would if I were responsible for that case.

And you're accusing posters of bad faith, which is just not cool. It's not that hard to say "I disagree" without flinging "BS" accusations or being aggressive and confrontational--that kind of attitude was no help to Zimmerman on the night he shot that kid, now, was it?

If you have a different POV, just say so without the harsh language. Have a conversation, not a confrontation.

Please refer to my other posts in this thread on this matter. I think you're overstepping and getting unnecessarily personal with people. Posters are simply repeating what they've heard on the news -- if you feel a need to correct them, do it, and provide links. Don't call them BSers.

Including the one right below this where you say the lawyer is lying to the court. That would be a breach of ethics and subject him to a disbarment complaint. A criminal defense's clients may lie but I have not seen defense lawyers lie to the court. No one in their right mind is going to risk disbarment to protect the bail of a client.

One can state one's opinion in a non-confrontational way, ya know. So--I suspect the lawyer isn't being truthful, and you think otherwise. That's a difference of opinion--no one is "spreading BS" here, it's simply a case of people having a differing POV.

Unless that lawyer is a DUer--and I'll bet he's not--I'm not being uncivil to another poster by putting down their opinions as a deliberate attempt to spread BS. That is what you were doing, though, and I am pointing it out to you.

Something's not right there! Two very different stories...!

It could be that Zimmerman's lawyer found out about the second passport after Zimmerman and his wife spoke about it in the phone conversation the State prosecutor was talking about and did take possession at that time but, even if that were the case, I don't buy his contention that he "simply" forgot about it instead of immediately turning it in. There is NO doubt in my mind O'Mara knew immediately the second passport was a serious issue and would NOT forget about it at all.

It seems quite clear from the tapped phone call that Zimmerman's wife had possession of it at the time of the call so when did O'Mara take possession? It is clear from the CNN report it was well before this Friday's hearing.

This is the thing that gets me. I cannot see a professional and seasoned lawyer in a high profile case making a mistake like this. It just doesn't ring true. I don't care what anyone says...something is up with a mistake like this done by a lawyer like this.

about crossing every T and dotting every I. I can't shake the feeling that the lawyer is being less than honest with the judge.

and this excerpt from your link indicated the judge is none too pleased with the way he is being lied to.

I was posting about the passport only not the money. I wasn't in the courtroom and neither were you. So I go by what someone who was there says. If you want to try and read something that isn't there go for it.

I like O'Mara, but I have to say that a mistake like that is strange for a seasoned lawyer--especially one who was a prosecutor at one time. Very strange.

for a reason. Pretty stupid thing to do, as it does look suspicious and it's hard to believe he and his wife did not realize that jail phone calls are recorded, OR that the passport at least, would be discovered.

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Not to say that Zimmerman has two personalities. From what I have seen he barely has one.




*Edit was to correct my mistakenly equating Schizophrenia with Multiple personality disorder.... My apologies.

isn't a split-personality disorder.

I know several people who have a US Passport then one from their "home" country. Or vice versa.

It's not unusual in academic circles.

That's how I am an Irish citizen - my mum's Irish, my Dad's American.

and was issued another.

He handed in the "lost" one and kept the good one (that he could still use to travel on).

i have two...both are valid...i carry one to some countries and one to others...

sP

where visa stamps from A will get you into trouble when you go to B, and perhaps those from B will cause you trouble in A, then at least some countries will provide a second copy of your passport to allow you to avoid those problems.

Not a good thing when traveling in terrorist environments. Better to get a second non-mil issued passport.

affiliated with the US federal government but not specifically military. Hillary Clinton has a no fee passport, so does any congressperson, and any military member with orders overseas.

Where you can find out who's who and what's what is to demand the orders that the person is travelling under--those will give you the details re: the passport holder.

I do agree that a tourist passport is a good thing to have, though.

Edit to add this link with all the details: http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/nofee/nofee_836.html

I served in SOFA countries in uniform and never had a single identifying mark on mine. I could have been a janitor in the embassy, a civilian working for any government agency, or military--the only way to know was to see the accompanying orders.

Different names, matching high-limit credit cards, and bundles of cash from various nations.

Plus a towel.

A towel, it says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have. Partly it has great practical value. You can wrap it around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta; you can lie on it on the brilliant marble-sanded beaches of Santraginus V, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it beneath the stars which shine so redly on the desert world of Kakrafoon; use it to sail a miniraft down the slow heavy River Moth; wet it for use in hand-to-hand-combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (such a mind-bogglingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.

More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: non-hitch hiker) discovers that a hitchhiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, face flannel, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitch hiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitch hiker might accidentally have "lost." What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy

I travel to the middle east frequently and there are many countries that will no let you in if you have an Israeli stamp in it. So for those countries I use a second that shows no travel to Israel.

You can either get a passport card, which won't work for international airline travel, or you can get a duplicate regular passport, but the term is generally limited to 2 years. You can always say you lost the first one and get another full passport, but that would constitute fraud on the application.

one for him, and one for the animal, who chased down a child, because "THIS TIME THEY weren't gonna get away with it" The man with a mission.

I was born in Scotland and I'm a naturalised Australian. I have both passports.

My daughters have three nationalities - they get British and Australian from me and Dutch from their mother.

If you are thinking of applying for dual nationality, be aware that not all countries allow it. You may be asked to give up other citizenships.

Depending on your situation , you may be required to have more than one passport. For example, if you have Australian citizenship together with citizenship of another country, it's illegal to enter Australia on the other passport.

Mostly because if you have an Israel stamp you then cannot be admitted into other countries. Another reason is if you travel very frequently internationally. If you're sending off your passport to get a visa one place and yet need to travel to another at the same time, you'd need the second passport.

As far as getting it, you just apply for one.

They're accustomed to the drill. Show up early when you get on your departing flight, though:

you have to get a visa issued by their consulate. it is affixed to your passport and requires you to send it off and can take a few weeks.

fortunately, two passports is perfectly legal...

sP

I doubt George does much travelling, or ever did, which would seem to be a prerequisite for qualifying for a second document.

on both instances...seems like a best negligence that lead to lying to a judge...or just plain outright fraud which STILL resulted in lying to a judge...

sP

While I have known people with diplomatic passports I was not referring to that. People that travel internationally a lot especially to sensitive countries in the Middle East, tend to have two passports. I've also known people that send one passport off for the visa issues, while still needing to travel internationally with the second passport. It's not just the amount of stamps, it's about physically having the passport to still travel for business.

To get a second passport you just apply for one with a justifiable reason. Here's a passport service that discusses 2nd passports: http://www.passportvisasexpress.com/passports/second-valid-passport.xml

Zimmerman reported his passport lost and received a new one with a 10 year expiration date. That you cannot do.

I don't think he's travelling between Israel and Saudi Arabia as a matter of routine! Or on the road so much that he needs a passport constantly at his side...

He reported one lost and got a new one.

There are legitimate reasons for people to have two fully valid US Passports.

Arab countries that hate Israel often look at your travel stamps. For example if you enter Israel from either Egypt or Jordan (both of which I have done) there will be an exit stamp from that country. If later you go to a country like Syria, for example, the border people will say "ok you left Jordan on March 22, 2012 , where is an entrance stamp for the next country you entered on March 22, 2012?" If you don't have a credible explanation they will assume you went to Israel.

If you fly in, there's no issue, but if you go over land, and you go into say, Egypt, or Jordan, they can tell by the stamp where you crossed.

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

he applied for a new one. He turned in the soon-to-expire passport and kept the new one in a safe deposit box.

He must have told the passport folks he lost his old one.

If that's the case, tack on lying to the feds to his list of crimes.
Edit:
Since I wrote this I learned a lot--this goes back to 04, and the passport he handed in was the "voided" one.

I think--if I had to bet--that his intent was to deceive.

American and Irish --- the documentation I needed to provide for the Irish one could have filled a small carton.

The U.S. one is a snap to get, in comparison.

and it might be easier and/or safer to travel with a different one.

He was born in the US to a Canadian parent and a British parent. So he had triple citizenship, in the US, Canda and the UK.

for work related reasons that comes with a special stamp (SOFA/diplomatic protection level, etc.). Both would be legal to have. (I know because I held 2 legal passports, one issued for special reasons granting me certain protections and the other just a regular passport)

The rule is you can't travel on both at the same time. As in exit a country on one and enter another country on the other during the same travel period.

That's one way to have two.

He was born in China (1), raised in Taiwan (2) and has been a US (3) Citizen for 30 years. I'm British (1) and a US Citizen (2).

usa passport is not so valuable as you may imagine, an eu passport or a canadian passport or many other passports provide far more benefits for the middle class person so it would be stupid to not apply for them

while usa kids are getting into debt and will never be free to make choices in life one of my young relatives is getting a free university education...truly truly stupid NOT to have two passports if you qualify

usa is not number one in looking out for its peeps, it isn't even number 10...i would say smart, educated, on the ball people are MORE likely to have two passports than the average bear

one, as other posters have mentioned, is dual citizenship. The other is work for the UN or an organization recognized under the UN Convention on Priveleges and Immunities and you can get a UN Laissez Passer to travel on for work. If I ever have to travel for work, I will have to apply for an LP.