General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Bundy gang has now bulldozed a road thru an archeological site
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militants-continue-to-operate-bulldozers-move-soil-in-refuge-/The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service confirmed Thursday that not only is the road built last week by the occupiers new, but it is also within an archaeological site important to the Burns Paiute Tribe.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service assistant director of external affairs, Jason Holm, condemned the militants last week for what he called disgusting, ghoulish behavior.
They removed part of a fence to create the short access road.
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Why aren't they being stopped?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Perhaps Paiute leaders should give these idiots a call and explain a few things they really need(ed) to know -- if they didn't already.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)If they care at all, I'd predict they'll go out of their way to bulldoze or otherwise destroy any archaeological sites.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)clueless destructive knuckedraggers instead of noble freedom fighters, yes. That's in spite of their obvious, also clueless bigotry and indifference about just who came first.
Stupid as they clearly are, they understand that the success of this endeavor depends on their media image.
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:large
"You have died of dysentery." From the New Yorker.
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And so far they're losing bad.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)No, they do not care about presenting themselves as "credible" in the sense that you or I would understand that word. If they care about anything it will be about properly signaling to other conservatives that they are also members of the same tribe. And that means showing a proper disregard for things like "the environment" or "political correctness" or "concern for anybody who isn't a white Christian conservative."
So, no, I would bet money that if you showed them a map of all the archaeological and/or environmental areas of interest, they would go out of their way to deface them. Because that is the image they care about presenting to the outside world.
KT2000
(20,586 posts)that the Endangered Species Act means nothing to him so he does not follow the law.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Phantom.
The Kochs and their tribe have an enormous amount to do with the anti-government behaviors the Bundys are part of. They have been fanning the flames and pulling strings for decades; however they are currently losing this media war to widen support for further acting out. This one was a mistake.
And it's becoming clearer all the time that we can thank intelligent refusal to escalate by the nasty old federal government for that.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)They are achieving their goals, and no one is stopping them. They are building roads and no one is stopping them. They are accessing federal databases and no one is stopping them. They are going to the grocery store and no one is stopping them.
They don't care about hearts and minds, they have colonized the nature preserve, papa bundy still owns his ranch and cattle herds, and still roams them on federal lands and no one is stopping him.
They are winning.
navarth
(5,927 posts)So we're trying to avoid another Waco? This is different IMO. These guys will keep doing this shit until they're stopped.
Why are they allowed to go around freely?
If this was Occupy, or Black Lives Matter, they'd be gone already. It's maddening.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)and while it's true that occupy did benefit from privilege that they weren't immediately and brutally removed, they were still under police watch constantly. and they were attacked by the police on a regular basis. The TV crews were on them 24/7 trying to cast them in a bad light.
These guys? Nothing. The only TV crews that show up are invited by them for interviews.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because?...could it be because we have a democrat in the WH and he appointed one in the Justice department and we don't want criticize a party member?
Yep they are winning and we are letting them...and our excuse is because they have guns...just as it was at the Bundy ranch...
Lord, lord what cowards we must be.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Because...something something something... And therefore all this American Indian kvetching is bullshit (except for the stuff in boxes that the TaliBundys ransacked yesterday -- apparently that's sacred).
atreides1
(16,091 posts)The feds are all about white privilege, considering that most federal law enforcement are the same color as the Bundy gang!!!
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)if this
was Bundy it would be all over by now?
I agree.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)SunSeeker
(51,660 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Treat them as such.
The balls in your court Obama.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)There are parts of religions that appeal to psychopaths. Fundys are all the same. Eventually that must bring God into their fight, since the rest of the planet sees how incredibly fucking stupid they behave.
Invoke God and double down.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Response to peacebird (Original post)
LiberalArkie This message was self-deleted by its author.
UTUSN
(70,725 posts)we say "RADICAL ISLAM" (and "terra terra terra" , they should be saying "Radical Mormonism".
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)evict the rattlesnake that crawled into their burrow.
navarth
(5,927 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Well, if they were willing to destroy the facility, that is.
Hell, I hear a LOT of local talk (I live in Portland) from people who would be more than happy to help get rid of these shitheads themselves. Obviously a big percentage of that kind of talk is hot air...but if a real "Oregon militia" (that is, ordinary Oregon citizens officially mobilized to deal with a threat to the state) were allowed to handle this, the seditionists would be facing literally thousands of people, at least as well-armed as they are. The do-nothing Feds are probably saving these assholes' lives.
Baitball Blogger
(46,756 posts)Put a bounty on them and privatize the matter.
spanone
(135,861 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)spanone
(135,861 posts)dhill926
(16,351 posts)does the governor have any law enforcement options here?
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The feds have asked her not to do anything...or even to comment, apparently, although she blew off the latter request. Gov. Brown has demanded action, no small thing for a peace-loving progressive like her.
The occupation is on federal land, but it would take someone with more legal expertise than me to determine if that prevents a state governor from dealing directly with a threat to security within her own borders.
maxsolomon
(33,383 posts)or to go home to work. Deny them supplies, but leave the power on to protect the facility.
You can leave, but you can't go in. Wait them out. Eventually the fuel and food will run out.
The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)Why the big deal? Just have the police up the road a bit or at a grocery store. Stun gun them so they can't reach for their gun and arrest them.
Stop any food from being delivered and wait. They have overtaken federal property and are committing a felony. Right?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Likes to destroy relics and holy sites. Stupid and cowardly. Sounds like generic fundy terrorists.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)A warped 'sense of entitlement' is what happens to people when they get almost free use of our public lands for DECADES & more free gov. money to clean-up OUR public lands their livestock/drilling/mining trash.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)NoMoreRepugs
(9,454 posts)I didn't think so
msongs
(67,433 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)They're trying a Redneck Rope-a-Dope.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,700 posts)Thank you.
OS
Rex
(65,616 posts)With more groups showing up, the chance for them all shooting each other goes up.
fbc
(1,668 posts)Sorry for stating the obvious.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)but they do it and you hear nothing about it smh
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Isn't that what cops do when they come across bank robbers?
countryjake
(8,554 posts)Published on Jan 20, 2016 by Red Power Media
Video shows Ammon Bundys militiamen standing in what appears to be a storage area of a building at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. More than 4,000 Native American artifacts are housed at the refuge. Burns Paiute tribal chairperson Charlotte Roderique has expressed concern over how the militia was handling the tribes history.
Why aren't they being stopped?
me b zola
(19,053 posts)Stupid fuckers, the Paiute are mad as hell at those dumb-asses.
countryjake
(8,554 posts)that the Burns Paiute Tribe held held back at the start of the invasion.
Oregon Tribe Says Militia 'Occupying Native Land and Must Leave'
"What if it was a bunch of natives that went out there and overtook that, or any federal land," Kennedy said. "Would they let us come into town and get supplies and re-up? ... Think about that."
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/burns_piaute_tribe_militants_s.html
BURNS PAIUTE RESERVATION Leaders of the Burns Paiute Tribe on Wednesday called on militants occupying a federal wildlife compound to end their standoff.
In a press conference, the tribal council sought to educate the public about their own painful history with the federal government. The militants, they said, are only making things worse for everyone in Harney County.
"They just need to get the hell out of here," said Jarvis Kennedy, a member of the tribal council. "They didn't ask anybody, we don't want them here...our little kids are sitting at home when they should be in school."
~snip~
The Paiute Tribe once occupied a large swath of land that includes the Malheur National Wildlife refuge archaeological evidence dates back 6,000 years but they were forced out in the late 1870s. Before settlers arrived, the tribe used it as a wintering ground, said Charlotte Rodrique, the tribal chair.
"We as a tribe view that this is still our land no matter who's living on it," Rodrique said.
And, for a bit of the Paiute's history, Amy Goodman interviewed Jacqueline Keeler on Democracy Now! (Jan 5, 2016)
These Aren't the First Armed Whites to Take Over That Oregon Land: Just Ask the Native Paiute People
alfredo
(60,075 posts)for good.
I'd suspect we have listening devices planted all over the site, to listen and gather intel on them and the their backers. Maybe we are trying to build a case for treason against them. We need audio and video of them planning armed insurrection against our government.Remember we planted listening devices in milk cartons during the Waco standoff. That's how we knew they were going to commit mass suicide.
I hope we are planting rumors of traitors within their group.
GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)They're probably letting them hang themselves. But, they're also having to do it in a way that doesn't stir up the rest of the militia types. No doubt they want to avoid another Oklahoma City bombing-type event from these fuckbags.
alfredo
(60,075 posts)Initech
(100,099 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)lpbk2713
(42,766 posts)I tend to think now that a judge might be inclined to show leniency when these clowns (if ever) get to court because the "law enforcement" on site let them get away with so much.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)by the Koch Conglomerate of billionaires.
Get a set of nuts, force them out and imprison them all.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)the feds to loosen their grip on federal lands so mining companies can rape the shit out of protected lands.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)They got the sensitivity of rock headed stone orcs. they need to be in jail.
cab67
(3,002 posts)- but it's time to bring these people to justice.
I really don't want to see anyone get shot, whether they be occupier or law enforcement, but the longer this goes on, the harder it will be to do anything AND the more damage will be done to a national treasure.
The Bundys are selfish people who don't care about anyone or anything that doesn't directly benefit them. The time when they could just pack up and go home is long over.
byronius
(7,400 posts)Their fifteen minutes on the stage is up.
Megahurtz
(7,046 posts)I'm tired of this, the longer they wait to get them out of there the more it will embolden other terrorists to do the same.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)But only if we could record the Bundy reaction.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I can see no other reason for this BS being allowed to continue.
Lars39
(26,110 posts)That's the only other thing that makes sense.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)is that nothing would get out the mouth breathing subhuman gop like a bunch of martyrs. BE it is Isis or Bundy, we need to not merely be prepared to fight Fundy terrorists but to yes, if they want to fight a war, kill them and make sure the disgrace is felt for generations. The optimum solution is to jail them and show them enjoying the same lifestyle they would gladly inflict on blacks or browns.
Turbineguy
(37,364 posts)Let's hope they have a good liability umbrella policy.
rladdi
(581 posts)cvoogt
(949 posts)Some have brought their kids to live there. More IS parallels.
CrispyQ
(36,502 posts)Why is this allowed to continue?
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)hostage and import snacks. Who the fuck is in charge of ridding Oregon of their presence? Are they on vacation?
Beowulf42
(204 posts)our very own brand of ISIL right here in Oregon. How similar is this to the destruction by the IS of the oldest Christian monastery in Iraq? They both lay waste to whatever they hate or don't understand.
vinny9698
(1,016 posts)What a difference because of white privilege.
SteveG
(3,109 posts)nt
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)this is shameful.
Our government is afraid of right wingers. Much like the Latin American governments were afraid of the drug cartels, ours are afraid of white bozos.
It's very shameful.