General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Could Be A Tipping Point In Sanctuary Standoff?
Everyone concerned wants the standoff to end peacefully and the militia to go home or leave. At this point they show no signs of leaving or relenting no matter who asks. The locals do not want them in the are even though a lot of locals may have issues with the federal government.
No one really wants to have anyone get hurt or injured in this mess. The feds probably know that action on their part will likely end up in conflict and likely it will be an armed conflict. Waco & Ruby Ridge are overblown in that the federal government were not the real perpetrators to start with. It is not that the feds are totally blameless.
You still have look at who the perpetrators were in the 1st place. In the sanctuary case the militia is the culprit and they instigated the crisis and certain parties put women and children on the site. So if anything does happen the feds are not responsible. The federal authorities hands are tied in some ways because the militia is saying it will defend itself if ANY action is taken. And they probably includes a blockade or power shut off or stopping them from coming and going.
The occupiers are like dealing with nitro glycerin. Even the slightest provocation will set them off. And they imply they will call in more militia if moved on. Plus they have also inflicted religion into the fray now.
The urge is to go in. But if the federal authorities do act the GOP, hate radio, RW conservatives will just blast away. And the MSM will help them frame the government as the culprit. After all the Trumps of the world support these guys.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Why are these people not picked up and arrested one by one while they are out roaming the town?
Facility Inspector
(615 posts)and get arrested for that (at the very least) sometimes shot and killed.
None of this adds up.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)The militia has made it clear they will open fire on federal authorities even if they only show their face in the community or at the sanctuary.
TheBlackAdder
(28,205 posts).
These militia guys are deranged enough to die for a cause, no matter how perverse.
They brought their families with them, are benefiting from their use as human shields.
But, what's more disturbing, is the possibility that these men might want to put their families down, to prevent the women from remarrying and their children being raised by another man.
While it might sound odd to most, these people have massive control and ownership issues.
.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)The government realizes this and hangs back, hoping that the criminals will do something so egregious that public opinion will demand that they take action.
It's a bad situation, either way, somebody is going to get hurt or killed before it's over.
GoCubsGo
(32,085 posts)Making these assholes into martyrs will almost certainly perpetrate something like that. There is already some fighting among themselves, and I think the feds are hoping they will just start taking each other out. It' just a matter of time, I think. Either that, or they'll keep doing stupid shit that will piss off more and more of their sympathizers, like destroying archaeological sites, and wasting taxpayer dollars.
Stuart G
(38,428 posts)So after a while, the damage to the refuge will become clear. The damage will be horrible. The leadership of so called "Right crazy Wing" will know that the time is up. But public opinion will force that change..
.I don't know when that will be, no one knows. In the end, the crazies will pay in one way or another. When the damage is exposed, then the country will know what the crazies are about. When the battle between some sanity and no sanity begins, then the exposure will harm their cause...
a comparison....an honest exposure of what happened in Flint, will hurt the corporate Republican cause.
.but...will we get it? I think so, because there are still a few totally honest parts of the media..note: I said a few.!
edgineered
(2,101 posts)For example, roll a few RV's right into the midst of the compound. From these command posts they, the feds, can conduct training of their own forces such as testing their high tech comm gear and it's capacities, performing military style operations, initiating raids, etc. It's not like the militia now owns the property and anyone else would be trespassing.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Maybe they will even get a virgin or two for their efforts.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Couple of little pieces. One,this past week their was a so called Citizen Forum held at the Dixie Center in the City of St George,Utah. Topic was use of Federal Lands to enhance their community,yah right,it was about plowing a Highway through a Federal Protected Wildlife Preserve(Red Desert Tortoise Habitat and National Preserve)and the private use of some two hundred thousand acres with forty five thousand set aside for the Tortoise. Once this so called transfer occurs,the local Land and Housing People will be constructing million dollar plus homes on this Red Rock area.
Two,this so called forum was the brain child of the Washington County GOP and their friends. Some of the people that were in attendance,Jason Chaffetz,Bob Bishop,Republican Congressman both chairman of key Governmental Committees dealing with land and appropriation for the BLM and Forest Service. Other attendees were the County Commissioners from Iron and Washington Counties as well as most of the Mayors and City Council Members of the area.
This little Party was planned last fall and appears there was communication from these Politico's and several States Rights and Extremist interests. There is a convection with Bundys and a County Commissioner via family relationship. As well as a couple City Council Members.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)gets their takeout order wrong?
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)That place is like Real World x 20. With guns. And everyone is Puck. Sit back and watch. Cliques will form. Petty grievances will fester. Blood will flow...
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)position. Can't he tell them to go home?
Or is he supporting them.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)By Tad Walch, Deseret News
Published: Monday, Jan. 4 2016 12:35 p.m. MST
SALT LAKE CITY LDS Church leaders on Monday plainly and roundly denounced a militia whose organizers cited Mormon scriptures in the months before they seized a federal facility in Oregon on Saturday.
"While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a church matter," the church said in a statement, "church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis. We are privileged to live in a nation where conflicts with government or private groups can and should be settled using peaceful means, according to the laws of the land."
...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865644791/LDS-Church-condemns-seizure-of-Oregon-federal-facilities-by-militia-citing-Mormon-beliefs.html?pg=all
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Unless they are Warren Jeffs' followers.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)at some point soon, they have to get the place set up for the spring summer season, not to mention any wildlife concerns (breeding will be occurring).
those yahoos will have to go, they should be gone already.
no wonder rw wackos think the govt is a bunch of wimps.
looks like a duck......
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Ammon Bundy has a heavy equipment service company - that he has a half million dollar FEDERAL loan on - and LaVoy Finicum stated that he mostly relied on income from the foster children he was taking in - that have been removed from his home.
According to some social media posts others get disability checks from the federal government.
These so called independent ranchers rely on handouts from government at various levels. They don't seem to be capable of making a living without someone helping them out, even if it is only the deeply discounted grazing fees that they don't want to pay and that they often don't pay.