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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:13 PM Feb 2016

Everyone deserves a...

...college education. Really? Are you sure?

It started in the '50s. A good stable job, maybe in a union, led parents to want more for their children. College degrees and professional jobs looked like great ideas. So for the next few decades demand for college and ways to afford it were steadily rising. One day some folks in the loan business got together with some politicians and made a law that excluded college loans from bankruptcy.

Imagine you're a junior in high school getting ready for your first crack at the college boards. (Do they still call them that?) Maybe you think you want to be an architect or teacher. It's time to look at colleges that work, not only your field of study but maybe 2 alternatives. Consider your budget as well. If you and your parents have $20,000 saved for college, you might spend that on your first semester once you add books, commuting or housing, fees, parking, etc. The average private college is now over $16,000 per semester. A state school will cut that to maybe $5,000 which helps a lot if you live near one.

Community colleges help a lot. The one near me is about $110/credit. My private college was a bit less than that over 30 years ago. Keep in mind the fees and books. I had a course that required a $45 book. Even at community colleges today a text book can be almost $100.

Right now total personal debt in the US is closing in on $17.5 trillion. Almost 8% of that is for student loans, about $1.3 trillion. We add about $10,000 to that every 3 seconds.

Some things to really consider, there are 2 ways out of student loan debt: (1)pay them off, (2)die. Death won't net you much for that college degree. Looking at paying off the debt works if you get a job that pays enough and have low expenses. Let's talk about the traps. Deferments are a massive landmine. A deferment does not stop interest from accruing. If you're thinking about putting off undergrad loans while working on a masters, check on what the payments will be after. If your parents co-sign your loans, and anything happens that you can't, they must.

Of course you can always just default. If you got a job and started paying only to be left out in the cold during an recession, just go bankrupt on your other debt. Having the loan sharks in the student loan business solvent enough to keep lending so colleges can continue to expand and give everyone that college education which will keep them in debt for years is great for our economy and for young people. The highest source of personal debts in the US are mortgages. Student loans are #2. Mortgage interest is tax deductible. Part of health care costs are tax deductible. Student loans or at least the interest... hell no.



My perspective: The average new grad will earn $45,000/year; that's about $645/week take home. That masters my net you an extra $80/week.

My daughter manages a store with about 10 employees. The store is part of a national chain. She has an associates from a community college. She's making about the same plus quarterly bonuses with a student loan balance of maybe $1,500. She's 27 now. Her grandmother wants her to go back to school. She hated school. Going back would mean either giving up the manager's job and working part time for about 4-5 years, losing 60-70% of her net pay and probably taking a big batch of loans.

IMHO state and community colleges should be free.


On to the question.
What needs to change about tuition and student loans?
3 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Student loan interest should be tax deductible
0 (0%)
Student loans should be tax deductible entirely
2 (67%)
Up to 50% of a student loan should be eligeble for bankruptcy
0 (0%)
Tuition should be tax deductible
1 (33%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
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Everyone deserves a... (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 OP
I love education hfojvt Feb 2016 #1
I like education too... discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #4
well school does tend to be a motivator if nothing else hfojvt Feb 2016 #6
School mostly motivated me to get out of school discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #7
I thought you were going to say autopsy... Phentex Feb 2016 #2
That too, but only after the student loan is paid back. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2016 #3
Nope sorry that bandwagon is too crowded discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #5
College is NOT for everybody. hifiguy Feb 2016 #8

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
1. I love education
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:32 PM
Feb 2016

in theory. I think everybody should be educated and always learning

BUT college here tends to be about $$$ and NOT so much about learning.

We also run in to the paradox (whose name I forget). It works like this though. Back in the day when my dad graduated in 1956 there were very few college graduates. His degree was quite valuable. As more and more people get degrees they become less and less valuable. Instead of being rare, they are a dime a dozen. If one person stands up, he/she can see better. When everybody stands up, nobody can see any better.

I got an apparently worthless degree way back in 1985. With six years of college and a 3.29 GPA my math major is apparently not worth the paper it is written on. Since I quit the one good paying job I had with the military industrial complex, my career has been a big fat nothing.

I even got a worthless master's degree. I went to grad school, not really because I wanted to, but because I could not find a job, ANY job, with my BA.

My current job pays semi-decent, better than many of the other jobs I have had since 1986. When I applied for it, I did not put my MA on the application, because I was afraid they would use that as an excuse to NOT hire me, and then I would end up somewhere else making $2 an hour less.

So I am working a job I could probably do with a 3rd grade education. I work with my back, moving tables and chairs and mopping and vacuuming, and, of course, my raison d'etre (see that college education put to use right there? Impressive, no?) - cleaning toilets.

But it's a living.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
4. I like education too...
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:42 PM
Feb 2016

...but school sucks.

I like airplanes and flying, unless I'm stuck in a middle seat, but I hate airports.

And, as Becker said, "Love cheese danish, hate Danish cheese."

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
6. well school does tend to be a motivator if nothing else
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 03:17 PM
Feb 2016

It's easy to say you can get an education at the library, but it was only AFTER I had gotten in to graduate school in 1988 that I got on my bicycle went 15 miles to the local college library and started reading book about economics.

It was also at school where I did a lot of reading on my own, found a bunch of free books in the hallways and also had access to a college library and a few bookstores. My favorite parts of graduate school were the books I read on my own, and also the papers I wrote. Even got to take a trip to Portland, Oregon, paid for by the school.

I was on the train coming back from Portland though and started thinking. In the next two weeks I have to finish two papers, make two presentations, and prepare for written and oral final exams.

Six months later though, I started to think that I should have kept going, because I could have lightened my course load by taking some credits in "dissertation".

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
8. College is NOT for everybody.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:33 PM
Feb 2016

And that is a fact. The world needs carpenters, plumbers, HVAC people, mechanics, and lots of other skilled labor to keep going. And those jobs can't be outsourced.

I graduated from a flagship state university in the Big Ten back in the mid-1980s. At least 15-20% of the campus' massive enrollment - the biggest in the country at the time - had no effin' idea why they were there, other than that it seemed like the thing to do.

But in those days $1500 bought a year's tuition.

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