Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:08 PM Feb 2016

Obama abandons all pretense of concern for civil liberties

I'm shocked -- SHOCKED, I tell you! From the NY Times:

[font size=5]In Nod to Law Enforcement, Obama Ends Attempt to Straddle Privacy Divide[/font]

By MICHAEL D. SHEAR FEB. 19, 2016

WASHINGTON — For years, President Obama has struggled to reconcile a civil libertarian’s belief in personal privacy with a commander in chief’s imperatives for the nation’s security.

This week, security won.

The decision by Mr. Obama’s Justice Department to force Apple to help it breach an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino terrorists has ended, at least for now, the president’s attempts to straddle the feud over encryption between Silicon Valley and law enforcement.

Asked about the president’s backing of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s inquiry into San Bernardino, one of the worst terror attacks in the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Obama’s press secretary declared on Wednesday that “the F.B.I. can count on the full support of the White House.”

< . . . . >
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Obama abandons all pretense of concern for civil liberties (Original Post) markpkessinger Feb 2016 OP
it's not a violation of a suspected terrorist's civil liberties to have his phone searched geek tragedy Feb 2016 #1
There's more at stake here than one terrorist's phone n/t markpkessinger Feb 2016 #2
true that, but we're not talking about turning the US into a police state geek tragedy Feb 2016 #3
The notion that law enforcement's need to gather evidence trumps all other concerns . . . markpkessinger Feb 2016 #5
that is not the standard courts use when granting search warrants. geek tragedy Feb 2016 #7
This wasn't just a search warrant . . . markpkessinger Feb 2016 #8
they're asking apple to do that. geek tragedy Feb 2016 #11
The FBI wants the ability to go to anyone's phone. former9thward Feb 2016 #15
The people are dead. ananda Feb 2016 #25
The phone in question belonged to the shooters' employers. They have given permission. n/t FSogol Feb 2016 #29
Not the point here... 2naSalit Feb 2016 #30
Absolutely right. If the feds are given the key to unlock phones, razorman Feb 2016 #27
If Apple produces software for use with a "real" warrant, it will also be used without one. PSPS Feb 2016 #6
there is a slippery slope argument to be made here. geek tragedy Feb 2016 #9
another reason we need to turn away from the party establishment Amishman Feb 2016 #4
Dead mass-murderers have a rather limited expectation of privacy struggle4progress Feb 2016 #10
If this were only about a dead mass murderer, you might have a valid point . . . markpkessinger Feb 2016 #16
"I bet Obama put those two up to that shooting so he could become dictator!" struggle4progress Feb 2016 #18
WTF are you talking about? markpkessinger Feb 2016 #19
I'm just wondering as I wander lost in the strange world of paranoid dreams struggle4progress Feb 2016 #20
Reasonable people can disagree over whether or not there are privacy concerns . . . markpkessinger Feb 2016 #21
It's just an off-hand reference to an old song reflecting strange beliefs struggle4progress Feb 2016 #24
Right n/t markpkessinger Feb 2016 #32
Any time an exception is made for "one special instance" of something like this hifiguy Feb 2016 #12
"all pretense of concern" brooklynite Feb 2016 #13
Scratching my head. When did he ever pretend to be about civil liberties? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #14
Well, now, you do have a point there! n/t markpkessinger Feb 2016 #17
Just leave apple alone! Egnever Feb 2016 #22
do any of the candidates running for president have differrnt position on this ? JI7 Feb 2016 #23
A follow up question: ShrimpPoboy Feb 2016 #28
If the terrorist is dead and died shooting up a bunch of innocent people, then PatrickforO Feb 2016 #26
& tomorrow Obama is going to do away with Social Security. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #31
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
1. it's not a violation of a suspected terrorist's civil liberties to have his phone searched
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:12 PM
Feb 2016

pursuant to a lawfully obtained search warrant issued by a court of competent jurisdiction.

The government has a right to DNA test criminal suspects, open up all of their financial records, look through their personal computers, their cable bills, the x-rated films they rent while staying in hotels, and get access to their safe deposit boxes. If there's a warrant.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
3. true that, but we're not talking about turning the US into a police state
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:14 PM
Feb 2016

because of an attempt to access information and evidence pursuant to due process of law

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
5. The notion that law enforcement's need to gather evidence trumps all other concerns . . .
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

. . . is a very dangerous one, with potentially profound consequences for the country.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
7. that is not the standard courts use when granting search warrants.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:20 PM
Feb 2016

the 4th amendment says reasonable searches and seizures

we are not talking about cracking a phone for jaywalking offenses or failure to pay student loans, we're talking about accessing evidence found in the possession of a suspected terrorist.

if policehave the right to go through his home, and his email, and his bank records, and his credit history, and his mail, and every single item in his possession, why not his phone?

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
8. This wasn't just a search warrant . . .
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:22 PM
Feb 2016

. . . it was a court order to a third party to develop software to carry out the search warrant.

former9thward

(32,065 posts)
15. The FBI wants the ability to go to anyone's phone.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:29 PM
Feb 2016

Not just this dead terrorist. That is what the fight is about. Also once Apple creates this backdoor any hacker will be able to access any I-phone.

2naSalit

(86,750 posts)
30. Not the point here...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:21 PM
Feb 2016

what we ave here is one of those slippery slope arguments and it concerns all iphones and demands eventually being made by other countries and security agencies. Don't forget, there has been a protracted argument about the tech corps creating a "back door" entry to encryption, tech world has declined to do so thus far. What they are being told to do here is to create that software, it won't be for just one phone, it will provide access to them all. And we all know how secure the world of the interwebs works, once anything gets on the web, it gets exploited for nefarious purposes... so if Apple were to comply and the access to unlock all iphones got out into the netherwebs, gosh what could go wrong?

I prefer my privacy, what's left of it.

razorman

(1,644 posts)
27. Absolutely right. If the feds are given the key to unlock phones,
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:17 PM
Feb 2016

they will not stop at one single suspect. The ability WILL be abused.

PSPS

(13,609 posts)
6. If Apple produces software for use with a "real" warrant, it will also be used without one.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

Please note that a "secret warrant" is not a real warrant and a "secret court" is not a real court.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
9. there is a slippery slope argument to be made here.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:23 PM
Feb 2016

at the same time, other than Ron Paul there isn't a candidate for president out there who wouldn't seek the contents of an international terrorist's cell phone.

do you really think Bernie Sanders would say in a general election "I think the government should not do everything it can under the constitution to investigate and prevent terrorist attacks and networks?"

Amishman

(5,559 posts)
4. another reason we need to turn away from the party establishment
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:15 PM
Feb 2016

and focus on those who care about the people

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
16. If this were only about a dead mass murderer, you might have a valid point . . .
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:32 PM
Feb 2016

. . . but most of us know better.

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
19. WTF are you talking about?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:36 PM
Feb 2016

I never said, nor insinuated, any such thing. This is not conspiracy mongering. There are privacy concerns at issue here that affect millions of people. The notion that those concerns should be swept aside in favor of law enforcement's need to collect evidence is, or should be, profoundly disturbing to anyone who cares at all about civil liberties.

(Cowardly hit and run, btw.)

markpkessinger

(8,401 posts)
21. Reasonable people can disagree over whether or not there are privacy concerns . . .
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:00 PM
Feb 2016

. . . but insinuating that people who disagree with you are "lost in paranoid dreams" is simply vile.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
12. Any time an exception is made for "one special instance" of something like this
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:25 PM
Feb 2016

it will be universally applied ASAP.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
14. Scratching my head. When did he ever pretend to be about civil liberties?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:28 PM
Feb 2016

He's been doing his damndest to throw whistleblowers in jail and keep allowing Americans to be spied upon for 7+ years now.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
22. Just leave apple alone!
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

Fuck apple. biggest example of corporate greed on the planet and people worship them it sickens me.

Obama is the devil because he disagrees with Apple.

What a crock of shit.

ShrimpPoboy

(301 posts)
28. A follow up question:
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:20 PM
Feb 2016

Would any president, once elected and faced with the daily responsibility of keeping America safe in today's world, choose differently?

Bernie might. But I would be surprised. There's no doubt for any of the other candidates (expect maybe Rand Paul or whomever the Libertarian candidate is).

PatrickforO

(14,586 posts)
26. If the terrorist is dead and died shooting up a bunch of innocent people, then
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:16 PM
Feb 2016

we should be able to hack into their phone. I mean, that's why this doesn't seem like a real good test case to me, because it's pretty black and white.

If on the other hand, someone is arrested on 'suspicion' and put in some little cell forever like our government can now do, sans any due process, then no, they should not be permitted to hack the phone.

All this boils down to the fundamental question:

"How much of your freedom and civil rights are you willing to give up in order to be 'safe?'"

I'm not willing to give up that much.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
31. & tomorrow Obama is going to do away with Social Security.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 10:21 PM
Feb 2016

I see we are recycling the Obama is so evil talking points.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Obama abandons all preten...