I have picked up a girl over my shoulder, put her in my car and driven her home because she was very very drunk and about to do something she would regret for the rest of her life. She was not happy with me but I know I did the right thing.

wrong time. Always know your surroundings and for goodness sake DON'T GET DRUNk. That young ladies is an invitation for trouble unless you have girlfriends who are with you and aren't drinking. If your smart always make sure you bring a girlfriend who doesn't drink. Be safe. Remember just because he asks doesn't men you have to say yes.

Let's not go down that road.

and being cautious about that is just smart even if it isn't politically correct.

would love to take advantage of a young lady who has been drinking way to much. How naive people can be. I don't drink but I have been with girlfriends who have and I have had to pull them away from some guy whose attentions weren't right. Those are facts. Not victims.

Last edited Tue Jun 5, 2012, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)

It actually kept me from being a victim a couple of times. And if I had a daughter I would caution her in exactly that way.

This is not about blaming the victim. This is about common sense and being aware there are rapists out there.

Common sense doesn't negate rape. What it does is make women more aware and less likely to be victims. Even the smartest woman on the fucking planet can be raped no matter how well prepared she is. Have you ever heard of gang rape? Even men, including rapists wouldn't be able to fight back or avoid being raped in those cases.

What kind of magical thinking are you engaging in? Having common sense has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is a victim of rape? You need some serious education on this topic.

say that? I would think the same way if it were a man. Drunks no matter who they are disguse most people. Drunks many times bring trouble unless they have a friend with them to keep them out of trouble. Those are facts.

While true, the thread was about men and their behavior. That once she was drunk, though ill advised, it doesn't make it OK to touch her.

better defend herself. You know people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Right?

harming her. She could have avoided and and we should realize we can get into these situations. But I thought the OPs point was that no matter how irresponsible the girl was, a good man would not take advantage of that.

I am a single father of 3 daughters, and I have 2 granddaughters, early teens, that I am raising, and I taught all of them that men/boys are not infallible.. I teach them that they are the sole gatekeeper of their own safety, and reputation..

I'm not suggesting that you didn't say otherwise, but to expect that my telling my two sons that they should respect all women, and NO really means NO! I trust them, and they haven't given me any reason to doubt that they will never behave poorly.. But I was young once, and I have never forced myself on any girl..

But I just never put a woman in a position that my desires where at the mercy of a yes or no question/answer, I was a bit more cagy then that.. I am absolutely sure that I am not the only man that took that tactic to it's conclusion.. It sure didn't always get the desired result, but I really didn't try too hard on the girls that acted properly.. By that I mean, some girls flagged their own desires for the occasion..

Never said that, sure didn't mean to leave that impression..

... Let's not teach them about birth control either. Let the guys handle that.

I am not blaming her for possible future attacks, I am just trying to help her avoid bad situations.

It is like telling people who sleep in the woods not to sleep next to their food. They don't deserve to be eaten by bears, but sleeping by their food increases the chances of being eaten by bears.

That would be good too, eh?

Oh, and don't wear inappropriate clothing, walk alone at dark or any of those things you might otherwise deserve an assault for.

it's just about recognizing that there are people who seek out and victimize those they see as vulnerable.

And people who think that you (and others in this thread) are "blaming the victim" are as fundamentalist as they come.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2149050/Do-men-like-dumb-looking-women-Study-reveals-gentlemen-prefer-SCORE-sleepy-ditzes-marry-them.html

-Men asked to rate personality traits for desirability
-19 out of 22 traits such as stupidity, sleepiness or drunkenness rated as 'atttractive'
-Tests on 76 male students with pictures of women looking drunk or stupid
-Men may simply be looking for an easily exploited woman

That is what happens when your drunk and not aware what is going on around you. It doesn't matter if your a woman or a man. Drink and trouble always find each other. That is all am saying.

But by the same token, a study like this to me makes the point of Biden and others. A large part of the problem of rape and exploitation of women is located in attitudes among men. Not all men or most men, but as this study indicates, among a sizable portion of young men (although I will note that 76 male students is an incredibly small sample and probably not generalizable; personally I would need to see a bit more studies to come to a definitive conclusion in my own mind).

As anthropological studies of attractiveness have shown, culture plays a huge role in determining what is or is not attractive--different cultures view different body types, skin tones, hair styles, and even personality traits like submissiveness vs. aggression as more or less attractive depending on a number of factors. So if this study and others among young men in Western cultures are literally showing that these men find vulnerable and easily exploited women more attractive, it is not nearly enough to tell women to be careful.

The fact is that even if you were to eradicate drunkenness and other "high risk" behaviors among women, there are always going to be those who are, for whatever reason, more vulnerable to exploitation and even violence--for example, you can't teach someone with a minor cognitive impairment--one that perhaps does not inhibit her ability to support herself or live a full and mostly independent life, but might make her more trusting or otherwise vulnerable--not to have that disability. We *can,* however, do the very challenging work of changing attitudes among young men to make respect and a genuine sense of equality more core values. This may not change all attitudes or eliminate all rape, but the point is this: addressing male* behavior and attitudes is at least as important as addressing female* attitudes and behavior, if not even more so--yet it receives in general only a fraction of the attention.

(*I don't mean to imply that rape is always male on female, or that women cannot rape men. I know quite well that this is not the case. However, because male on female rape, and more broadly, the behaviors of men and women in relation to rape, has been the topic of this discussion so far, I have simplified things a bit to keep in context.)

right?

and then it's too late for those affected.

It would be an "invitation."

drunk. When you are drunk you aren't aware of what is going on around you. Am I right? I am not blaming the victim. I am stating a fact. You don't like it ok it's is your opinion. You have that right. I have mine.

and start fights with others, or try pawing the ladies and behaving like a boor.

It's always a good idea to have a friend who will be "for" you at your side when you are out socializing...and by "for" you, I mean someone who will prevent you from doing something stupid. If you're a good friend, you'll return the favor to the friends you're out with, as well.

And your spelling is consistent with the thought that seems to have gone into it.

Referring to women as 'young ladies' while lecturing about their responsibility for men's behavior is patronizing and regressive.

Last edited Tue Jun 5, 2012, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

the young men are old enough to know what constitutes rape.

Being drunk is not a valid excuse for committing a felony. If it were the prisons wouldn't have so many residents.

All SouthernYankeeBelle is saying is that it's a good thing to be aware of your surroundings and to have a sober friend with you if you're going to get drunk. That's simple good advice and does nothing even approaching excusing a crime.

SYB didn't excuse it but she did describe how some do use drunkenness to excuse felonious behavior. The courts rarely consider that a valid mitigating circumstance.

She's saying that alcohol sometimes makes it more likely for people to do stupid and criminal things. She's not excusing it at all, just saying that alcohol makes it more likely to happen. And yes, some people DO use their drunkenness to excuse felonious behavior. That's simply a fact, and not something I have a problem with anyone pointing out.

It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the man to NOT have sex unless there is positive, emphatic consent.

most men are cowards.

Just for educational purposes of course.

If most men are cowards, most women are insecure?



See how that works...?

I have been pleasantly surprised with his work so far as VP.

Don

He pretty much confirms my thoughts about that all the time

If anyone has seen the Six Feet Under series on HBO , the VP had the same sort of AVM that one of the main characters had. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/brain-avm/DS01126

It's a miracle (and good medicine) that he's alive. He had much more to do, apparently!!! I wish him many more years of good health!

I don't think guys are thinking of being a man when their hormones are overflowing.

It's about anger and dominance. It doesn't matter if the rape is done to a woman on the outside of prison or a man in prison.

Just think for a minute. If a man's hormones are overflowing is he capable of taking no for an answer, or is he capable of not forcing himself on a woman? The answer is yes, he is capable of backing off no matter how much his hormones are pushing him on. Most men, thank the gods, are actually quite capable of being revolted by the idea of non-consensual sex.

I wasn't thinking of an angry rape. Anger never crosses my mind when I'm horny. I know what your saying. If I'm turned down. I may become angry. I guess the angry person can't deal with striking out.

Rape also has nothing to do with momentary anger. When you're turned down it's very common to get angry due to frustration. It's the next step that either makes you a normal man or a rapist. If you back off, even when angry then you're not a rapist.

Rapists will not even bother to ask or assume. They will just do the deed to be in control and they do it to dominate another person. That's why so many rapists pick strangers. It's easy to dominate a person who is physically weaker so you can beat her or him into submission because of your need to be dominant. Rape is almost always about rage and revenge and just plain having dominance over another person. Rape isn't about mutual enjoyment.

If it weren't, there wouldn't be so many ending up in prison.

They are not some bubbling witches brew, set to turn me into mr. Hyde at the barest hint of a nipple. I realize i can't speak for all men on this, but no matter how horny I am, I'm still a perfectly coherent, sane human being who is in control of my behavior. So don't give me that "b-b-but hormones!" stuff, kay?

I know you're trying your best.

But a great speech any way. And timeless advice. Obviously.

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)

touching without consent makes him a PERVERT

There is no possible way drunk men will misinterpret your intentions.

I also advise wealthy people to flaunt their money in poor neighbourhoods.

Amirite?

What a sad comment to make. If you're a man,ask yourself " when is the last time I went to a bar and worried that my style of dress and number of drinks I've had has put me in danger of sexual assault?"

went to a public park and worried that if she waved at the kids playing there she would be assumed to be a sexual deviant, possibly facing eviction or even violence?

Men and women are different. No sense in pretending otherwise.

Let me know when men being arrested for waving at kids in parks reaches rape rates in the U.S.

Also do other factors (such as suicide rates, incidence of dying violently, incarceration [plus, often rape], unemployment, drug addiction, mental illness, homelessness etc) ever come in to play?

/all of these, by the way, are disproportionately devastating towards men, rather than women. None of which get much attention as gender issues. Women get to worry about rape. Fine. Men get to worry about all those other things (plus rape should they be falsely accused of being a sexual predator, which yes, does happen). So . . . wanna trade?

Maybe somewhere outside of a thread on women and rape?

Men and women are afflicted by different problems. No one gets away free of trouble.

So saying "why should I as a man/woman have to worry about X when they as women/men do not!?!?" doesn't really make any sense or make the world a better place.

No, most guys don't have to worry about being raped (outside of prison, where we are far more likely to end up). Does that mean guys don't have to worry about anything? No. Does it mean women shouldn't worry about being raped? Obviously not.

Some things affect genders at different rates. You can dig in your heels and yell that this isn't fair. Or you can accept reality and deal with it while we all work on fixing the underlying problems.

For instance: I bet you never worried that you'd be labeled a sex offender simply for your gender and being in proximity to children. This is something men do need to be aware of, women, not so much. Is the problem that you, as a woman, are not more aware of and proactive towards not being ever in a situation where your actions/presence could be misconstrued? Should we work on making women more aware of this problem?

I think not.

That would be a thing of beauty!

Biden would kick the socks off of Rush

I've always liked him.

and O"...