General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums5 Obvious Pieces of Evidence that NAFTA Is Killing the US Economy
http://economyincrisis.org/content/nafta-killing-us-economyWhen NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was passed, many people feared the worst. The results have indeed been disastrous. Just look at the results:
1. The trade deficit with Mexico has exploded
2. Mexican wages remain nearly as low as they were prior to NAFTA and are still a small fraction of our average wages
3. Wealth and power has not filtered to the people. Most of Mexico is still controlled by less than 100 corporations
4. Many of our other trading partners have relocated facilities to Mexico to circumvent other trade agreements with the U.S.
5. American manufacturing has lost 3 million jobs in the past 10 years as U.S. companies have also moved to Mexico for lower
wages and lax regulations
On the basis of the one-sided disastrous results over the past 15 years, whoever advocated NAFTA seems to be either grossly negligent of their duty of representing their constituents or is simply working contrary to the best interests of this country.
The evidence was clear that NAFTA would be a disaster.
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ANd with Hillary's full support, Wild Bill sold us out.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Jobs were leaving long before NAFTA.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)...and all of its further developments. For a time 50% of the US workforce had reliable farm employment, then along came mechanization. Other sectors have similarly fallen - such as the vast numbers of switchboard operator jobs now gone, and the legions of bookkeepers and so forth mowed down by the rise of computers.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)become obsolete. It's just going to get worse. Trading among ourselves isn't the solution, it's just not that simple. NAFTA, TPP, etc., are just something to focus our anger on.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)a tribunal of opportunists who will make deals with other opportunists, and that Hillary mentality " It's just going to get worse " is getting a little beat .
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)your on medical care, etc.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)only about 23% of our GDP has to do with trade with other countries, versus a norm of about 40% for the rest of the world. Which is to say, we are one of the most self-sufficient countries.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)NAFTA did not replace jobs, it sent jobs to countries where there was little regulation and the pay minuscule.
Did the PRICES of those components come down due to the savings of corporate America, NO!
So, basically the only beneficiary of the job flight was the bottom line of corporations, and lining the pockets of the CEO's et al.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)Estimates are that for every job lost to conventional outsourcing, ten jobs have been lost to mechanization. And in many cases the jobs outsourced have subsequently been lost anyway to mechanization; first a move to cheap labor, then the cheap labor being replaced by machines.
Again, not in every individual case, but in the bigger picture.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Births have declined for three consecutive years, and are now 7% below the peak in 2007
Source: Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_world#Age_structure
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)The top of the 1% and the bottom of the 99%, that's not being a Nationalist, that's a Fact .
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)better figure out a pact that leverages government, corporations, and workers to compete worldwide, or it will get worse. We live in a big world and better come to grips with that rather than acting like Nationalist xenophobes who blame groups of people for not voting for your candidate.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)or die muther!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)remember ronny?
We were to be an example of what was right for other countries?
Now that has been turned on it's wee little head..we have to compete with the poorest and most disenfranchised people on the planet. As each country demands more, 'they' simply find another to exploit, and claim we need to emulate 'their' work force!
Of course with TPP it becomes the law of the land...a corporation can sue America's minimum wage, cause it diminishes the profits a corporation could make otherwise.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)Until this changes - nothing else matters - Feel The Bern.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)Fact of the matter.
bhikkhu
(10,718 posts)Has our trade deficit with Mexico "exploded"? I've been unable to find any source for that. Typically we've run a surplus rather than a deficit, the current surplus being driven largely by a lack of Mexican oil exports to the US.
Mexico certainly has problems, but http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/11/13/mexico-middle-class-grows-over-past-decade suggests they have been improving. In an OP about NAFTA killing the US economy, I'm not sure why point #2 is about wages in Mexico, or whether rising wages indicate a problem more than stagnant wages. In any case, current problems in Mexico have more to due with collapsing petroleum prices than NAFTA.
Again, not sure what the number of large corporations in Mexico has to do with killing the US economy or NAFTA. Would 200 corporations be better, or 1000? In modern states economic activity tends to be represented by corporate activity. If economies transitioned to patchworks of small businesses and small producers (however that may be done), what would stop successful small businesses from getting bigger, buying up competitors, and becoming large corporations all over again?
On #4, is that a bad thing? What trade agreements do we have that need to be circumvented by relocation to Mexico? Not sure of the point being made.
On #5, the question would be how many manufacturing jobs would be lost if there were no NAFTA. There certainly have been many, but the far greater driver of manufacturing job losses has always been technology and automation. This was well under way, well known and predicted back in the 90's. It was one reason for the push toward service sector employment growth, which worked reasonably well. In any case, the balance of job loss and job creation related to NAFTA has been extensively studied and argued ( http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/nafta-20-years-later-benefits-outweigh-costs/ for some debate) and its complex, but hardly a disaster on the whole.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Mexican stuff. Assuming we cannot help Donald convince Mexico to pay for the wall that is.
Simply withdrawing from NAFTA and going back to WTO rules for US-Mexico trade (tariffs were just 4% before NAFTA) won't help. Frustration will build again to "do something about Mexico" and we will have to withdraw from the WTO and build a wall. Might as well go ahead while Trump's wall is a hot idea.
For globalists such as Merkel, interconnectedness is a good thing because it is what drives progress towards more prosperity and freedom everywhere. For territorialists such as Trump, interconnectedness is mainly a threat. What is good and healthy is attributed to the natives and what is dangerous comes from outside: unfair Chinese competition, dangerous Mexican immigrant ...
Territorialists, by contrast, dont believe in international and transnational institutions ...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/06/donald-trump-angela-merkel-territorial-global-ulrich-speck